A Spirited Perfect Ten

[AEfx]

Did this common usage come from some standardized document on ticketing levels? Or was it your opinion?

Yes, it did. But I can only show you if you become a member of a secret society.

I do not think it's boring. I enjoy the ride. And I love the grandioseness of the ride that many new attractions seem to ignore these days.

Grandiose? That's a prime indicator of...what folks refer to as...an E-ticket.

Are you kidding me? The witch is a solid animatronic. But you're comparing the Wizard of Oz scene to Potter?

I am comparing the replication of one movie scene with replication of other movie scenes, which is the experience folks are looking for in a movie park.

There is not one thing on Disney property that more accurately places guests inside of an actual movie scene. Oz is the best Disney has, and in terms of replicating the experience of being in a movie scene only Potter bests it, unless you are talking about walking around actual sets at USH.

 

[ford91exploder]

I was reading some of the posts here while sitting in a hospital isolation room (not easy to breathe with one of those masks on, let alone post so I didn't).

But I did want to correct a little misstatement that some folks (most Disney fans) seem to believe. That being that what's good for UNI is good for WDW. That if WDW loses a few days to UNI that it doesn't matter.

No, no, no.

Disney doesn't want to lose a Guest for an hour for them to drive from DAK to McD's or Chik-Fil-A on 192 have lunch and return.

If someone is visiting WDW for seven nights and spends 2-3 of those off-property, then it absolutely isn't good for Disney. No matter the spinning. It isn't a win-win situation. It's Disney losing valuable revenue to UNI and also increasing the likelihood that for those visitors future visits may well be 10 nights in Central Florida with two days at WDW parks (let's say MK and EPCOT) and maybe a visit to Disney Springs another night for a meal at a third party location.

This idea that a rising tide raises all ships is generally sound ... but not when one ship has been on cruise control with very little competition for decades.

That is the scenario facing WDW today.

One other little tidbit of fact/reality, but Disney was never approached (or approached) Nintendo about theme park rights for O-town and beyond. The deal has been in the making for quite a while. I was told it was happening sometime last fall.

Already happening at least in our family, Plan to spend 10 days in O-town, only 4-5 of which will be spent at WDW, DVC yes but much of this trip will be offsite. Even 3 years ago that would have been 1-2 days offsite but WDW is stale so we'll just hit the favorites and go elsewhere for the rest of the trip.

 

[Nubs70]

I was reading some of the posts here while sitting in a hospital isolation room (not easy to breathe with one of those masks on, let alone post so I didn't).

But I did want to correct a little misstatement that some folks (most Disney fans) seem to believe. That being that what's good for UNI is good for WDW. That if WDW loses a few days to UNI that it doesn't matter.

No, no, no.

Disney doesn't want to lose a Guest for an hour for them to drive from DAK to McD's or Chik-Fil-A on 192 have lunch and return.

If someone is visiting WDW for seven nights and spends 2-3 of those off-property, then it absolutely isn't good for Disney. No matter the spinning. It isn't a win-win situation. It's Disney losing valuable revenue to UNI and also increasing the likelihood that for those visitors future visits may well be 10 nights in Central Florida with two days at WDW parks (let's say MK and EPCOT) and maybe a visit to Disney Springs another night for a meal at a third party location.

This idea that a rising tide raises all ships is generally sound ... but not when one ship has been on cruise control with very little competition for decades.

That is the scenario facing WDW today.

One other little tidbit of fact/reality, but Disney was never approached (or approached) Nintendo about theme park rights for O-town and beyond. The deal has been in the making for quite a while. I was told it was happening sometime last fall.

I agree on the lost revenue for WDW. I have gone exclusively to WDW for 4 years staying on site. 2 years ago, it was on site with 2 days at UNI ( a 60% WDW/40% UNI split). This year it was offsite with 3 days UNI and 3 other than park days (0% WDW/50% UNI). I see no reason to go to WDW except for a hit of nostalgia but even nostalgia is tough to justify at current admission prices.

In summary, the fact there is nothing new at WDW makes the cost of a trip to bubble not worth the experience.

 

[ford91exploder]

SSE? Yes. Jeremy Irons was fantastic. Dame Judy Dench? They ruined it, ask the Phonecians.

Mansion/Pirates? Nah. Those are true classic, must see attractions or you wasted your money by coming to town.

The unfinished descent is also an abomination.

 

[WDW1974]

I'd agree the culinary quality has slipped from the heydays. There are still some standouts - Flying Fish, CA Grill, V&A's. The food at Grog Grotto should be a step above for WDW, being new. But the food across the parks is not where it used to be, due to standardization and trying to pump out as much as possible. I do look forward to some of the upcoming additions at Downtown - STK and Morimoto should be excellent, as should Edison's project. Boathouse, stick with the steaks and you'll be fine.

The quality of WDW cuisine rose quite fast in the 90s due to Michael Eisner's 'micro-management' ... much like the resorts and using cutting edge architects. And there are some places I've had great meals at over the last few years (Flying Fish, Jiko, Artist Point come to mind as far as Disney owned and operated locations). I am sure that V&A's is still amazing even though I last dined there in 2007. ... I can't talk about the food at Grog Grotto, but the drinks are smaller and weaker than their west-coast counterparts. ... And I have a hard time giving Disney credit for third party locales being great. I do want to try Boathouse. Probably should have gone in April, but was waiting for all the opening kinks to be worked out. I do wonder what audience they are going for when they pass out free $300 meals to Lifestyler whores who would never pay that for a meal there.

World Showcase's food is decent to very good, but has slipped, to me. Coral Reef is nowhere near what it once was. Monsieur Paul is excellent. In my experience over the past decade, Chefs is decent or is poor, depending on the visit. Napoli and Tutto are consistently very good.

I've pretty much given up on anything that isn't QS in WS. I've had some good, but not exceptional, meals at the Hacienda and Biergarten the last few years. Had a good meal at Nine Dragons too, but not exceptional. Coral Reef was amazing from opening until the late 90s. It then got good around 2002 for a few years. But when you have a seafood restaurant that has chicken ceasar salads and pork chops on the menu and no lobster, something is wrong. ... I've never been to Napoli, but those locations are also third parties (Patina). Tutto is good, but Il Mulino at the Swan is much better and classier and has a much wider menu (and you don't need to book it months out).

My good friend George Kalogridis is actually largely to blame for the destruction of Disney dining. First, in the 90s as EPCOT VP he championed bringing in Tom Kelly's RMS Consulting group in. They immediately cut menu choices across the board to save on purchasing costs. And that's when the homogenization began. Every location, no matter cuisine or theme, had to have one chicken dish, one steak dish, one salmon dish, one pasta dish and 2-3 others. Prices also went up considerably.

Years later, after Georgie K was fired in Anaheim and needed Al Weiss and the TDO Bois Club to create a position to keep him employed with the Mouse, GK and his team came up with the DDP, which put the nails into the coffin of fine dining largely (most especially in the parks, but at resorts as well).

 

[AEfx]

One other little tidbit of fact/reality, but Disney was never approached (or approached) Nintendo about theme park rights for O-town and beyond. The deal has been in the making for quite a while. I was told it was happening sometime last fall.

Thanks for the tidbit...I was hoping someone would come by with more information. Any idea what kind of scope we are really talking about in terms of Nintendo presence? Or where?

 

[WDW1974]

Thank you for the nice quote. Hope everything is ok with the family.

Just telling it like it is. Like I always do. ... It's day to day ... really ... and it sucks, but such is life.
Oh, and I owe you (and a few others) a PM. I will get around to it. Hope all is well with you!

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the tidbit...I was hoping someone would come by with more information. Any idea what kind of scope we are really talking about in terms of Nintendo presence? Or where?

Will answer out of order since you are awake and here!

Nintendo will have a significant presence at UNI-FL. This land will not be simply in the footprint of Kidzone. Larger.
I've already mentioned Beijing. I'd expect you'll see something pop up in Hollywood soon too (that's just an assumption based on something I was told). It goes without saying that Japan will see stuff as a result too.

 

[Skippy]

Grandiose? That's a prime indicator of...what folks refer to as...an E-ticket.

I would also describe Ellen's Energy Adventure and to a lesser extent American Adventure as Grandiose. But I'd never describe Ellen as an E-ticket.

I am comparing the replication of one movie scene with replication of other movie scenes, which is the experience folks are looking for in a movie park.

I think I got ahead of myself in being contrarian. You were comparing movie immersion, I jumped to quality of movie related attractions. My apology, no argument there. I find it an odd comparison to make, but it's not the mess I was quick to make it.

 

[WDW1974]

It's quiet again but I know ideas are being developed. Just not to the level of it changing next week.

At least two new shows have been planned that I know of but cancelled. As you say, assuming they want to premiere something new at the 50th, every year that passes suggests they may wait until then.

That's sorta what I thought and feared. And so typical of O-Town leadership. All of their night entertainment is beyond tired. From a 1972 parade to a 2003 pyro show at MK. From a 1998 Fantasmic to a 1999 Illuminations. Sure, DAK will have RoL next year, but that doesn't leave the others free to coast ... but that it what is seems will happen.

And while say OLC would change a show in 2016 and not care that five years later they'd have to change again (because they might have another change in between!), WDW Co. just acts with contempt for its Guests.

 

[WDW1974]

Just a simple Spirit observation and question...

Saw a recent list of your fav Orlando Parks...with all AK upgrades soon, do you see it as a fight between it and IoA as the future best parks in Orlando? USO can be closer due to Diagon Alley but still lacks "something"

Those are my favorite two due to attraction and theming...

Right now, my favorite parks in O-Town are (in no particular order as it depends on the day and my mood): EPCOT, DAK, IOA, UNI ... then, likely SW after those four. ... The only reason MK isn't dead last is it has plenty of stale and neglected and overrated attractions to keep me busy. At what's left of Disney-MGM, I can enjoy walking around listening to background music (except where it has died and they haven't noticed) after riding ToT and RnRC or Star Tours, depending on mood, and TSMM IF I have FP'd it from my sofa. In other words, if it just had 2-3 other great attractions, then I'd place it over MK.

I find today's MK lacking in almost every way that once made it so special. Every other castle park in the Disney chain is far better. And I am never bored in any of them. If I don't have special people with me (or a fanboi posse asking questions like ''What does Meg Crofton smell like?''), then I wonder why I'm even there.

I know it's not popular and saddens me greatly to say it, but the MK of 2015 is a lousy park, even if @WDWFigment is here again!

 

[AEfx]

That's sorta what I thought and feared. And so typical of O-Town leadership. All of their night entertainment is beyond tired.

I think you mean "evening" entertainment, nothing at Disney has been open at night regularly for anything other than hard ticket events in years!

LOL, just kidding, but highlighting one of my pet peeves - that during much of the year they roll up the sidewalks anytime between 7PM and 9PM (if you are lucky) which is just when the fun sets in, for me. The parks are pretty during the day, but gorgeous and at times breathtaking at night. I can't use those terms for any of the daytime vistas, as really nice as they are.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

Here's what I've learned from this wall of text. You're kind of stuck up about food and entertainment because your mom exposed you to it. You went to Disney when you were 7-ish. You went back when you were 23-ish and probably infinitely more stuck up. Disney didn't change all that much, but you had changed a great deal. While WDW may have declined from a 9 to a 5 at that point, your snobbery was exponentially greater than when you were 7. What was probably a 3 was now well past 11 on the snob-o-meter.

While there are issues at Disney, and always have been, you basically went to Disney when you were the target audience and you returned as a stuck up 20-something with all the righteous indignation that accompanies that. You were appalled that WDW did not fill you with awe as it did when you were 7, but instead of the self reflection required to understand that most people change from the time they are 7 to the time they are 23 (kudos to you for not, apparently) you blamed the park.

You came here and found a group that shares your sentiment, but given that you had no real adult experience at WDW other than it failed to meet your lofty expectations, you fumble to articulate the reason you were disappointed and you've fallen into a pattern of hilarious mimicry of others points with long winded post containing little substance.

As for your repetitive declaration of superior taste in food and entertainment: Good for you but the real world doesn't really care, and there is more benefit to being able to relate across all levels then demanding people rise to yours and demeaning people that don't. Just some unasked for advice from someone who enjoys a Quarter Pounder, but has also eaten at great restaurants in Paris as well (along with Sydney, London, Santiago, and of course WDW and DLR).

Also regarding dining at Disney. It's been better. It's been worse. It is still very easy to find a good place to have a great meal. In the time that I'm willing to trust my memory (from the mid-90s on, even though I've been going since the 80s) it's never been a paragon of fine dining except in a few locations, at least not compared to fine dining in the real world.

Lastly, everyone knows that beer is a superior product in every respect to wine. Except French beer. Those are mostly horrible.

Hilarious

 

[PhotoDave219]

Right now, my favorite parks in O-Town are (in no particular order as it depends on the day and my mood): EPCOT, DAK, IOA, UNI ... then, likely SW after those four. ... The only reason MK isn't dead last is it has plenty of stale and neglected and overrated attractions to keep me busy. At what's left of Disney-MGM, I can enjoy walking around listening to background music (except where it has died and they haven't noticed) after riding ToT and RnRC or Star Tours, depending on mood, and TSMM IF I have FP'd it from my sofa. In other words, if it just had 2-3 other great attractions, then I'd place it over MK.

I find today's MK lacking in almost every way that once made it so special. Every other castle park in the Disney chain is far better. And I am never bored in any of them. If I don't have special people with me (or a fanboi posse asking questions like ''What does Meg Crofton smell like?''), then I wonder why I'm even there.

I know it's not popular and saddens me greatly to say it, but the MK of 2015 is a lousy park, even if @WDWFigment is here again!

Hey, I never asked what Meg Crofton smelled like or made a comparison to Pike Place Market.

:lookaroun

 

[WDW1974]

Yes, my agreeing with your assessment that Chefs de France is not good really jives with my "rhetoric" doesn't it? If we're going to talk about track records though, perhaps you could bandwagon just a little bit more? You're teetering on the edge of absurdity and I would be very entertained with seeing you go over the edge. You try so hard to fit in that you are agreeing and supporting opinions of a WDW past that no 5 year old could be making at the time.

Maybe you're being a bit hard on him (not saying you have a hardon for him, two different things), jake. The younger set often talks about things they never experienced at all (go on Twitter and read what they say about TDR or HKDL ... or even DLR ... when they've never been). Our old pal @EPCOT Explorer has become an 'expert' on DLR after one visit and four days in the parks. Young people often feel they missed out on a better WDW ... they'd be correct. It was even better back when you were working as CPer.

I have no issues with your or anyone else opinion's about food. In fact, in general, from the late 90s until now I agree. Although it isn't as bad as the mid 00s and is getting better in my opinion.

I think I inhaled something toxic at the hospital because I actually agree with that. Will that harm my BRAND?!?!

Oh, and Happy Mother's Day!

 

[AEfx]

Will answer out of order since you are awake and here!

Nintendo will have a significant presence at UNI-FL. This land will not be simply in the footprint of Kidzone. Larger.
I've already mentioned Beijing. I'd expect you'll see something pop up in Hollywood soon too (that's just an assumption based on something I was told). It goes without saying that Japan will see stuff as a result too.

LOL, thanks.

That's good to hear. Actually, I was interested to hear about Japan - glad you specifically mentioned it. I wouldn't have been surprised if Japan had not been included, as they often treat the market there totally differently than they do the rest of the world.

But Kidzone scares me...does that mean ET is going home for the last time?

 

[PhotoDave219]

LOL, thanks.

That's good to hear. Actually, I was interested to hear about Japan - glad you specifically mentioned it. I wouldn't have been surprised if Japan had not been included, as they often treat the market there totally differently than they do the rest of the world.

But Kidzone scares me...does that mean ET is going home for the last time?

I think @Lee mentioned that ET would be okay. I think. It was lost in the jumble of fanboi Marvel delusions.

 

[WDW1974]

As an example... What if some told you to build a ride that took people to the moon. Impractical you say... But look at how wed conceptualized that into the disneyland and the magic kingdom attractions? And later mission space.

Creativity... Think outside the lines

That's what made the Early Imagineer's legendary.

That's exactly what's lacking in today's WDI.

Even top quality attractions like RSRs at DCA aren't breaking new ground or even using existing tech and new ways. They're just adapting it to (and I hate saying this) tell different stories. ***And I don't want to sound like I'm complaining about RSRs. I love it. But even that is set in a sea of mediocrity or crap ... like the new Fantasyland.

 

[englanddg]

That's exactly what's lacking in today's WDI.

Even top quality attractions like RSRs at DCA aren't breaking new ground or even using existing tech and new ways. They're just adapting it to (and I hate saying this) tell different stories. ***And I don't want to sound like I'm complaining about RSRs. I love it. But even that is set in a sea of mediocrity or crap ... like the new Fantasyland.

Heh...I had lunch (Dine with an Imagineer) with Diego Parris in 2012 two months after RSR opened, and I mentioned that "RSR seems like nothing more than a well skinned and slightly improved Test Track."

The glare was ice cold.

Now that I've ridden it...well, now I understand why. I wasn't far off.

 

[Skippy]

I think @Lee mentioned that ET would be okay. I think. It was lost in the jumble of fanboi Marvel delusions.

Not sure about Lee, but Martin made it seem ET was not part of the plan.

Then again he also said take out things east of the Simspons. (and it seems by doing so you'd be confined to the current Kidzone, so we may have conflicting info here).