A Set of Goofy Observations

[EPCOT Explorer]

You saw one of the first versions of FitS. It changed quite a lot over the years, and the last version (retooled as part of the NYE show) premiered in the late 90`s.

Wishes.... great but empty both at the same time. Disney admitted back in `03 they were taking a risk with a narrated pyro show. And they did. Prior to that only Believe had attempted more than just music, and even then any `narration` was hidden in verse.

Wishes is no doubt the most elaborate nightly show the MK has had. But it has far too many empty sections as the (familiar, as said above) story is told. This could be helped no end by investing in better castle visuals - the LED lighting system is far better than the old one, but the MK is the only Kingdom left to use purely light and a few gobo effects par the course. DLP and Anahiem have lasers, all the other parks have animated gobos, all but Tokyo have syncrolights, all but DLP have flame jets.... Wishes could be taken to the next level, much like ROE, by building on what is already there.

Remember is narrated...:shrug: What was the risk in that? I never noticed any negative from that.

Agreed with you about Wishes and RoE. Both can stay in thematics and in name, but they need plussing in effects, and technology. Touching the music would be a mistake, IMHO.

In 3 days! :sohappy: And you can bet I'll be looking for certain things (hats anyone?) and am very much excited to see stuff like the new HoP in person, Sum of All Thrills and the Muppets in MK (are they there now?). And I don't care if it's cold because I have a nice new coat to wear.



Jab? No, that's such a harsh word.

I prefer insult.

Can't wait to read your notes when you come back!

More harsh...but at least honest! :lol:

 

[EpcotServo]

We are going to need to widen the doorways for your Studios inflated head. :lookaroun :lol:

Never realized how much was done in 89...WoL opened, too.


What was the difference between the Muppet Labs you listed?

No need. Studios feature "Elephant Doors" which can expand to open a doorway as large as the actual building, to bring in large and unruly set pieces quickly and efficiently, hence the name "Elephant Doors". Soundstages 1, 2, and 3 both feature giant rolling Elephant Doors, opening to a total height of 50 feet, making them some of the most accessible buildings on property. Also: Did you know, that thanks to specially designed sound protection, the only noises loud enough to be heard from inside the soundstages is the Sonic Boom from the Space Shuttle?

:king:

:lol:

(And I was referring to DCA's MuppetVision, and them taking the Muppet Mobile Lab to Epcot, Hong Kong, and DCA, but not the ORGINAL Muppet Labs. You know? The orginal muppet attraction. Can't station them there guys? :brick: )

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

No need. Studios feature "Elephant Doors" which can expand to open a doorway as large as the actual building, to bring in large and unruly set pieces quickly and efficiently, hence the name "Elephant Doors". Soundstages 1, 2, and 3 both feature giant rolling Elephant Doors, opening to a total height of 50 feet, making them some of the most accessible buildings on property. Also: Did you know, that thanks to specially designed sound protection, the only noises loud enough to be heard from inside the soundstages is the Sonic Boom from the Space Shuttle?

:king:

:lol:

:brick:






:ROFLOL:

 

[wdwmagic]

You saw one of the first versions of FitS. It changed quite a lot over the years, and the last version (retooled as part of the NYE show) premiered in the late 90`s.

Don't forget the big 2007 retool using the Wishes firing locations on the rooftops.

 

[wdwmagic]

Can't agree on Wishes being overly corporate...if anything, Fant! feels like that to me. Disjoined, copy/pasted movie clips, and tons of foamheads.

Sounds like a copy and paste from 74. You know there's no foam in them right?

 

[Figment1986]

Remember is narrated...:shrug: What was the risk in that? I never noticed any negative from that.

Wishes (2003) Remember (2005)... and they used the template from Wishes to create the introduction and conclusion of Remember....(I prefer the E tickets in the sky portion myself which has no outside narration other then from the attractions themselves)

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Sounds like a copy and paste from 74. You know there's no foam in them right?

I don't plagiarize. That's my own opinion up there. Saying that, I still enjoy Fant! very much.

:lol:
I know there's no foam in them, but isn't that what there commonly called? I know 74 isn't the only one to use that term.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Also agreed on the whole Wishing/Working mantra. That's bugged me for a while about Disney in general, and I think PatF, adresses that in a perfect manner. Add it to Wishes. :lol:

I had that same thought as I was typing, but I figured the post was already long enough. :lol:

Corporate might not be the most accurate pejorative for Wishes, since they're not necessarily using it to push merch. I think I meant "corporate" more in the "hive-mind, designed-by-committee" sense. It feels more like the product of a board meeting than of an exciting vision to me. But some people obviously love it, so maybe I've just missed something. :shrug:

Wishes.... great but empty both at the same time. Disney admitted back in `03 they were taking a risk with a narrated pyro show. And they did.

I think that's another issue I have with it. A castle show that doesn't rely on characters like F! is by its nature a more abstract affair. The visuals and soundtrack should dominate the experience more so than any literal "story." Wishes seems like it's trying to be F!-Lite, when the Queen pops up to cause trouble, but it's all achieved through narration and lighting effects. It doesn't work for me.

I'd rather see them ditch the narrative format for Wishes, because I think it feels shoehorned and artificial, and stick with some really strong music and "impressions" of character interaction. The medium is the message, and fireworks don't equal conflict to me.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I had that same thought as I was typing, but I figured the post was already long enough. :lol:

Corporate might not be the most accurate pejorative for Wishes, since they're not necessarily using it to push merch. I think I meant "corporate" more in the "hive-mind, designed-by-committee" sense. It feels more like the product of a board meeting than of an exciting vision to me. But some people obviously love it, so maybe I've just missed something. :shrug:



I think that's another issue I have with it. A castle show that doesn't rely on characters like F! is by its nature a more abstract affair. The visuals and soundtrack should dominate the experience more so than any literal "story." Wishes seems like it's trying to be F!-Lite, when the Queen pops up to cause trouble, but it's all achieved through narration and lighting effects. It doesn't work for me.

I'd rather see them ditch the narrative format for Wishes, because I think it feels shoehorned and artificial, and stick with some really strong music and "impressions" of character interaction. The medium is the message, and fireworks don't equal conflict to me.

Or maybe I have! :lol: I never got that from Wishes, Davidson is quite consistent with his work, and this was one of his earlier shows.

If anything, like I said before, Fant. feels hive minded to me. Maybe because it's a bit older, and lacking when it comes to tech, but it just feels like they tried toi cram EVERYTHING and EVERY character in there. :lol: Something that I don't like that much.

Though Wishes IS character driven, I feel that it balances out the usage in a better way with a mix of music and narration. Maybe it's the fact that you don't always see them, too.

JMO, of course. Fun discussion...I'll be back later. :lol:

 

[Exprcoofto]

Well it's been a great few weeks here at the World, and I must say, I'm very, very impressed with what I'm seeing from the parks on this recent trip. Things seem to be improving, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Honestly, it was crowded last week, but my family and I still managed to do basically everything in every park by 6PM.:shrug:

One main thing I really noticed is how maintenance has really improved head and shoulders. I noticed things off or slightly jerky on rides one day, and the next they were fixed, where as recently it had taken weeks to see improvement.


Magic Kingdom

I'll start off with the park that has caught the majority of my complaints these past few years. I must say, without a doubt the Magic Kingdom is improving. Maintenance is almost spot on, the cast is still great, and even the food tasted better this past week. Now for the updates:

Splash Mountain will NOT be receiving lap bars during the next two months as I've been told. The reason for the lengthy refurb is that all the lifts in the ride will be ripped out an replaced. Expect the lap bars next year. Other than that, Splash looked terrific. Every effect was working perfectly, and the place looked in great shape.

Big Thunder Mountain is still the best mountain out of the four, with Splash following at a close second.

The past round of building touch ups look great, and a lot of MK's colors are really popping now.

Peter Pan's flight is honestly an embarrassment. I can't believe a classic attraction has been basically left to rot. Refurb this attraction now!

Pooh looks great, and is really a terrific dark ride.

Jungle Cruise's digital animation has made show scenes much more dependable, and there are less and less malfunctions. Unfortunately, I've been told not to expect a refurb this year. Or next year. Yup, it's been pushed back to 2012.

Pirates looked and sounded GREAT. I was really impressed.

Mansion is still the best attraction on property, and looked like it had just came up from a refurb.

HoP is a very solid show.

Country Bears looked great, and sounded great as well, except for Buff, Melvin, and Max. They were clicking all over the place.

Didn't waste our time with Stitch.

Buzz is still incredibly fun, even if it's dated and ugly.:lol:

Had a good MILF show for the first time in a looong time.

Now for the TTA. I rode it. I found it to be exactly as enjoyable as before the script was changed. I honestly pay no attention to the spoken words of the ride. It's there for relaxation to me, and it still does that job swimmingly. The only negative is the absence of the star tunnel music in Space makes that portion of the ride kinda creepy.

Space Mountain. *Sigh* The queue looks great, and the games are fun, even though I only played them for a few seconds. The pepper's ghost effects look amazing! It's crazy how faded they had become.

Now the load area ceiling is nice, but I HATED the configuration of sending you into the completely unthemed hallway at the back. Honestly, the refurb was basically all about queue and post show aesthetics, and they completely threw it out the window by sending you through that hallway, where the bare painted walls have already begun to be the victim of vandalism. Also aren't the air gates supposed to be lit up? They look pretty lame without it.

If the ride has been smoothed out, I could barely tell. I still had a heck of a lot of fun on it, but it's really no different than before. The obnoxiously loud lift and no audio doesn't help either.

The post show was nice, until the headache inducing "green screen".

All in all I give the Space Mountain refurb a D+/C-.

I ate at the Crystal Palace and Cinderella's Royal table and had excellent meals at both locations.

Now for a random MK rambling. Fantasyland will be great when it opnes, but MK wil still need more to do. On New Years Eve and December 27th, my family and I had everything in the park done by 8/6PM respectively, and that's without being commandos and running all over the park. If people can do that during the busiest time of the year, I really think more is needed at the flagship park.

Well...thoughts?

Sure, I have a few thoughts.

First, I'm glad to hear that MK is getting good maintenance on their attractions, however, some are still lacking (but may need a refurb instead of plain maintenance). You said Pooh looks great - did they do anything to the dream scene? For my past 5 or 6 trips that entire area has just been plain filthy. Anything that is suppose to have bright colors was just covered with filth.

Also, you said Pirates looks good. In August & Nov the two pirates that are leaning against each other (on the left) have been frozen. Were they frozen for you? And is the pirate still missing his tower of hats that has been gone for (what, over a year now?).

I honestly hate the new TTA narration (opinion). While others may say its similar to the other (and it is) then I say the previous was the best move the TTA has ever gotten. It made you feel like you're inside the community of Tomorrowland, sort of like the new direction for Space Mountain. However, they went with the opposite direction with TTA and made it feel like a big advertisement for attractions that we already know/seen. Horrible. It's not relaxing like it use to be.

Such a shame that Peter Pan is just rotting away. It needs a major refurb, but they will never close Pan.

Did you happen to hear anything about RFID? I know that has been talked a lot recently here on WDWMagic, just wondering if you've heard anything at all on it too.

 

[_Scar]

How so? Happy pixie dust beginning, villain takeover ZOMG!, pixie dust prevails, happy ending. Rinse and repeat.

Fantasy in the Sky is basically a celebration of the Magic Kingdom through music and fireworks. There is no agenda, just pretty music and pretty visuals. Could it be better? Yes, but it is something to build around and upon.

But one could also say that people were just in the park all day and had to listen to most of FitS already- and maybe they want something new.

I'd rather see them ditch the narrative format for Wishes, because I think it feels shoehorned and artificial, and stick with some really strong music and "impressions" of character interaction. The medium is the message, and fireworks don't equal conflict to me.

MK is where dreams come true- and I guess that applys to wishes. So why is it shoe-horned?

 

[WDW Vacationer]

Thanks Sir Goofy!

I'm very happy to hear the recent reports of maintainence and show quality in the Magic Kingdom improving. I'm especially surprised about this because of the cost of the expansion.

 

[Disneyson 1]

Uh, if I may...

Just saw the video of FitS... didn't wow. IT actually felt more slapped together than Wishes...

First of all, was up with that harmony on "When you Wish"? Weird.

That strobe effect at the beginning was great. Best part of the show.

The Tinker Bell intro was horrible. THAT was worse than the extra doses of pixie dust in Wishes, imho.

The standard "Wish Upon A Star"... standard, moving on...

The park segments weren't bad, just... I didn't feel the ride's emotions as much as I wanted. I guess on PotC I was reminded of the pool cleaner smell...?

Ummm.... Paging TLM, your ride isn't open yet! But anyway that was probably the best part in terms of song and mood and colors. Too bad it was just SOOO random.

The ending wasn't that strong, but still passing. Minimal goosebumps.

Anyone who disses Wishes on account that it's too filled with "Pixie Dust" and "wishing" should note that the main soundtrack for FitS is, in fact, "When you Wish" at the start and at the end with randomness in the middle, just like "Wishes"... It also has a similar story arc: Wishes, happy,(When you wish, it's a small world) then OH NOES! SCARY! (HM) Somewhat happier (Davy Crocket) more OH NOES!!!! (Pirates) and then random schmaltsy finale with a little bit of mermaid in there.

Also, Where's Liberty Square OR Tomorrowland???

 

[awilliams4]

my family and I had everything in the park done by 8/6PM respectively, and that's without being commandos and running all over the park.
Well...thoughts?

Thanks for the update. I don't post much but love your updates. Now with the pleasantries aside....maybe it is just because we are DVC members now but I can't really believe you did everything that could be done by 8, 6, whatever. I can spend 2 hours with my son at Tom Sawyer's island. We go there and split up into teams and play hide and seek. Do the checkers on the island. 'Take our time' shopping. Spend 90 minutes during our meals, play the penny machines on the train...take the train around a time or two. Spend time/talk/trade pins with Cast Members, walk slow and take our time and end up missing half the park in a day. I remember in October when we were at the MNSSHP we noticed a little Memory game at Mickey's Star Traders set out just for the Halloween party. We spent over 45 minutes there playing Memory.

We use to set the alarm, go to the park and do it from dawn to dusk. We have found that we enjoy the parks SO much more by getting there when we get there, doing what we just happen to bump into and leave when we want.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

MK is where dreams come true- and I guess that applys to wishes. So why is it shoe-horned?

It's the conflict between Cricket and Queen that I think feels shoehorned, not the "wishing" storyline. It just doesn't make sense to me in the context of a show entirely dependent on music, lights and pyro to try and work in a classic good vs. evil confrontation. It feels too literal for the format.

 

[_Scar]

It's the conflict between Cricket and Queen that I think feels shoehorned, not the "wishing" storyline. It just doesn't make sense to me in the context of a show entirely dependent on music, lights and pyro to try and work in a classic good vs. evil confrontation. It feels too literal for the format.

Well, the Witch does have the magic mirror.

If you want to take it that literally, then why is an insect from ye olden days in Italy talking to us in 2010!? And isn't the Queen dead?



I would really love a soundtrack that uses the paradestyle-for example SpectroMagic and MSEP- it eases into the next theme smoothly. It may have one direct musical theme, but it twists the theme to fit the movie represented.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Sure, I have a few thoughts.

First, I'm glad to hear that MK is getting good maintenance on their attractions, however, some are still lacking (but may need a refurb instead of plain maintenance). You said Pooh looks great - did they do anything to the dream scene? For my past 5 or 6 trips that entire area has just been plain filthy. Anything that is suppose to have bright colors was just covered with filth.

Also, you said Pirates looks good. In August & Nov the two pirates that are leaning against each other (on the left) have been frozen. Were they frozen for you? And is the pirate still missing his tower of hats that has been gone for (what, over a year now?).

I honestly hate the new TTA narration (opinion). While others may say its similar to the other (and it is) then I say the previous was the best move the TTA has ever gotten. It made you feel like you're inside the community of Tomorrowland, sort of like the new direction for Space Mountain. However, they went with the opposite direction with TTA and made it feel like a big advertisement for attractions that we already know/seen. Horrible. It's not relaxing like it use to be.

Such a shame that Peter Pan is just rotting away. It needs a major refurb, but they will never close Pan.

Did you happen to hear anything about RFID? I know that has been talked a lot recently here on WDWMagic, just wondering if you've heard anything at all on it too.

They did at DL...They could here, too, and they have, albeit for short times where nothing visually improved, it was infrastructure work.

Maybe after TLM and FLE.

Uh, if I may...

Just saw the video of FitS... didn't wow. IT actually felt more slapped together than Wishes...

First of all, was up with that harmony on "When you Wish"? Weird.

That strobe effect at the beginning was great. Best part of the show.

The Tinker Bell intro was horrible. THAT was worse than the extra doses of pixie dust in Wishes, imho.

The standard "Wish Upon A Star"... standard, moving on...

The park segments weren't bad, just... I didn't feel the ride's emotions as much as I wanted. I guess on PotC I was reminded of the pool cleaner smell...?

Ummm.... Paging TLM, your ride isn't open yet! But anyway that was probably the best part in terms of song and mood and colors. Too bad it was just SOOO random.

The ending wasn't that strong, but still passing. Minimal goosebumps.

Anyone who disses Wishes on account that it's too filled with "Pixie Dust" and "wishing" should note that the main soundtrack for FitS is, in fact, "When you Wish" at the start and at the end with randomness in the middle, just like "Wishes"... It also has a similar story arc: Wishes, happy,(When you wish, it's a small world) then OH NOES! SCARY! (HM) Somewhat happier (Davy Crocket) more OH NOES!!!! (Pirates) and then random schmaltsy finale with a little bit of mermaid in there.

Also, Where's Liberty Square OR Tomorrowland???

EXACTLY. It's very, very random. If they want to really capture the spirit of MK, put REAL clips in there.


Hello, 40th.

It's the conflict between Cricket and Queen that I think feels shoehorned, not the "wishing" storyline. It just doesn't make sense to me in the context of a show entirely dependent on music, lights and pyro to try and work in a classic good vs. evil confrontation. It feels too literal for the format.

I don't think that it's a conflict..It's Jimminy showing you about the "other side" of Wishes. Wishes is like one long dream, it's just sensation and imagery. Like I said, a vignette.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Excellent...Excellent...Muhahahahaha!
:lol:

And yes, but it's getting there. Right now there's Mulch Sweet N Sheers for New York Street, and the Green Army Men are doing great streetmosphere for Pixar Place, and Citizens of Hollywood are still in control of Hollywood and Sunset. I think some working studio crew entertainment in the Backlot would be nice, but Idol has actually done alot for the streetmosphere in that area with all the spot filming. And of course, they need to stop beating around the bush and bring the Muppet Mobile Lab to the Orginal, one and only, world famous Muppet Labs. (Ours of course. )

Studios+Typhoon Lagoon+Pleasure Island = The 1989 Trifecta of awesomeness.

Throw in the new Muppet Electric Mayhem Band and the Studios is truly a living, breathing experience. This is the Studios I remember from my childhood. I think the biggest mental block I get comes from that stupid hat.

I know there's no foam in them, but isn't that what there commonly called? I know 74 isn't the only one to use that term.

They are referred to as "fur characters" by entertainment/Disney.

Also, Where's Liberty Square OR Tomorrowland???

Liberty Square = Haunted Mansion

Tomorrowland is missing though. Perhaps the star tunnel music.

EXACTLY. It's very, very random. If they want to really capture the spirit of MK, put REAL clips in there.

No to real clips, it needs to flow around a central musical theme like Spectro (smartest thing _Scar has said yet.)

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Throw in the new Muppet Electric Mayhem Band and the Studios is truly a living, breathing experience. This is the Studios I remember from my childhood. I think the biggest mental block I get comes from that stupid hat.


They are referred to as "fur characters" by entertainment/Disney.


Liberty Square = Haunted Mansion

Tomorrowland is missing though. Perhaps the star tunnel music.


No to real clips, it needs to flow around a central musical theme like Spectro (smartest thing _Scar has said yet.)

Ah, I had heard that it, but it hardly sounded proper. :lol: Thanks!

I think that it does flow around a central theme...."When You Wish".

Though a unique one would certainly be welcome.

 

[krankenstein]

Can we get FitS for part of the year, and Wishes the other part?:lookaroun

I seriously wish they would bring back Magic, Music Mayhem for a limited time engagement.