On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[_caleb]

I'll repeat... " the instagram world wants to STAND OUT" - You don't stand out 'gramin the same old stuff. They use the term 'influencers' for a reason... they set ideals the minions all want to imitate because they all want to be that stand out photo themselves. You can't do that with same-ol-same-old.



Why do you think disney has invested in more festivals instead of more countries?

Thanks. I'm really trying to understand here. Didn't you start out lamenting the fact that Disney had "watered down" the WS experience with festivals and such?

BTW, there is certainly a desire to "stand out," as you're saying. But the vast majority of "influencers" don't have a global reach and don't put the time/money/effort into content that you seem to think they do. You don't have to "stand out" more than anyone else on the internet in order to be an "influencer," just more than the others in your little corner of the web. Most are copycats.

This is why there's a measurable jump in travel to Instagrammable places- not because people are out hunting for new, undiscovered locations, but because they want to recreate for their own followers what they've seen others already successfully do.

Disney hasn't pushed the "realism" of WS pavilions in a long time (probably for many of the reasons you're saying). But everyone here hates the idea of IP shoehorned in. Maybe you have a point and since WS in itself isn't "special" anymore, they have no choice but to make it more unique by adding more princesses.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The Internet didn't kill Epcot. It only killed Future World. World Showcase will be killed by Virtual Reality.

My personal stance (just that) is the rise of web and digital age has flooded our optic nerves with convenience to the point that:
A. It’s more difficult to “shock anyone” with things like facades and replicas
B. The memories created by such things are far more fleeting.

Neither of those things are good for dark style edutainment rides or 15 foot forced perspective replicas of the Eiffel Tower.

Prolly why they built a 500 ft tall one in Vegas, huh?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

IMO the lack of attractions are what has hurt World Showcase. Its why I think they should have continued to add the attractions that were originally planned and not IP based.

Yeah...that’s not Epcot. They set to build something that was distinctly NOT an amusement park.

The evolution is animal kingdom...theme and more of a ride system emphasis.

They failed to maintain one and finish another.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yeah...that’s not Epcot. They set to build something that was distinctly NOT an amusement park.

The evolution is animal kingdom...theme and more of a ride system emphasis.

They failed to maintain one and finish another.

I know what they set out to do but all the information that is out there show what they originally planned for World Showcase. It included many more attractions that weren't IP based. Like the Mt. Fuji coaster, the Rhine River cruise. I'm saying they should have continued on that path. Instead they are trying to shoehorn in IP that fits. Frozen doesn't fit into Norway.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I know what they set out to do but all the information that is out there show what they originally planned for World Showcase. It included many more attractions that weren't IP based. Like the Mt. Fuji coaster, the Rhine River cruise. I'm saying they should have continued on that path. Instead they are trying to shoehorn in IP that fits. Frozen doesn't fit into Norway.

Correct...but they didn’t. Epcot was designed and built as the “crown jewel” of the Disney brothers era....

But since They never had lines down the block, starting with Eisner and continuing today it became “that expensive place”.

In an ideal world...someone who grew up with Epcot - a gen Xer - would rise to CEO and really put their might behind that park. And DAK for that matter...

And Iger can be hands off till that day.

...I can make myself available...just saying. For “a modest fee”

 

[networkpro]

...I can make myself available...just saying. For “a modest fee”

I'm sorry that I can't make myself available. I would absolutely revile in driving the numbers of complaints to Guest Relations through the roof as I slaughtered sacred cows left and right.

 

[_caleb]

It seems like the conversation here is "nobody is impressed with World Showcase anymore" and also, "they ruined World Showcase with festivals and IP."

If "it's just like visiting the real place, only cleaner, safer, closer, smaller, and Americanized" doesn't attract guests anymore, why would they add any more "realistic" stuff to WS?

And if alcohol, festivals, and IP aren't the answer, what should be? So far, I've only seen @Jrb1979 provide a suggestion: a roller coaster.

 

[_caleb]

I'm sorry that I can't make myself available. I would absolutely revile in driving the numbers of complaints to Guest Relations through the roof as I slaughtered sacred cows left and right.

The first part of your second sentence disqualifies you from the Canada pavilion. The second part rules you out for getting anywhere near the new India pavilion.

 

[JoeCamel]

It seems like the conversation here is "nobody is impressed with World Showcase anymore" and also, "they ruined World Showcase with festivals and IP."

If "it's just like visiting the real place, only cleaner, safer, closer, smaller, and Americanized" doesn't attract guests anymore, why would they add any more "realistic" stuff to WS?

And if alcohol, festivals, and IP aren't the answer, what should be? So far, I've only seen @Jrb1979 provide a suggestion: a roller coaster.

Fill in the sinkhole and build MK 2.0. It's what the people want....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm sorry that I can't make myself available. I would absolutely revile in driving the numbers of complaints to Guest Relations through the roof as I slaughtered sacred cows left and right.

Yeah...

“After hours events”
“Fireworks viewing parties”
“All you care to eat character dining experience”

 

[networkpro]

It seems like the conversation here is "nobody is impressed with World Showcase anymore" and also, "they ruined World Showcase with festivals and IP."

I see more of the "Epcot as a museum" crowd lamenting the death of Edutainment and how the modalities of how they interacted with technology in the 80's are no longer present. Also seen are Guests who no longer looking at World Showcase as a human zoo, but looking for commonality between their existence and others.

I remember in 1994 seeing a technology demonstration of this new fangled high definition digital TV in Innovations. I also remember all of these countries I'd only read about in books vs now when I've been to all of them (and quite a few more). Interacting with cultural representatives in their own languages as well as having cultural knowledge to interpret nuance now is quite different as well.

 

[Jrb1979]

It seems like the conversation here is "nobody is impressed with World Showcase anymore" and also, "they ruined World Showcase with festivals and IP."

If "it's just like visiting the real place, only cleaner, safer, closer, smaller, and Americanized" doesn't attract guests anymore, why would they add any more "realistic" stuff to WS?

And if alcohol, festivals, and IP aren't the answer, what should be? So far, I've only seen @Jrb1979 provide a suggestion: a roller coaster.

The roller coaster was just one example. If anyone is interested look up what was originally planned for World Showcase. Almost every country had an attraction of some kind. Germany to was supposed to have a Rhine River cruise. I'm saying why not go back to that. Instead we have Lex Luthor and his croney pushing IP everywhere.

 

[Tha Realest]

As my username suggests, I am quite fond of the halcyon days of EPCOT. It’s clear rewatching old footage, and seeing what’s there now, that they never future-proofed Future World.

I don’t know that the edutainment concept is as fatally flawed as some suggest. As one who has been to so many good museums in recent years with my young kids, the smaller, youth focused children’s museums have figured it out. Now,many of these attractions are likely not consonant with a COVID—infected world (lots of hands-on experiences, etc) but the DNA of the original EPCOT Future World still lives on in some of the great science and children’s museums of the US. Again, I respect that may not be what customer surveys or attendance trends say drives things, but think there *could* be a way forward in the edutainment realm if they wanted it.

 

[networkpro]

Yeah...

“After hours events”
“Fireworks viewing parties”
“All you care to eat character dining experience”

Merces notitiam promerendae

 

[_caleb]

The roller coaster was just one example. If anyone is interested look up what was originally planned for World Showcase. Almost every country had an attraction of some kind. Germany to was supposed to have a Rhine River cruise. I'm saying why not go back to that. Instead we have Lex Luthor and his croney pushing IP everywhere.

Sorry- I was sort of teasing you about the coasters thing. But I really do appreciate that you provided an alternative suggestion (and you're right, the original plans you're referring to were much more than the Mt. Fuji coaster).

But to @flynnibus 's point, maybe nobody wants to see a knockoff of real world places anymore? Not sure I agree with this, but Disney sure seems to.

the death of Edutainment

Yep. I'm one of these. I think Disney gave up on edutainment (such as it was) way too easily. It felt stale because it was allowed to get stale, not because it was "educational."

 

[Tha Realest]

Merces notitiam promerendae

For some reason this post makes me think there should be an Assassins Creed: EPCOT. Ezio portions could take place in WS, and Desmond in CommuniCore.

 

[_caleb]

For some reason this post makes me think there should be an Assassins Creed: EPCOT. Ezio portions could take place in WS, and Desmond in CommuniCore.

Except the mission would be to "remove" anyone who isn't complying with the mask/distancing rules.

 

[marni1971]

Why do you think disney has invested in more festivals instead of more countries?

Because it’s cheaper.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe you have a point and since WS in itself isn't "special" anymore, they have no choice but to make it more unique by adding more princesses.

...well if that isn’t the most ironic/paradoxical statement ever

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because it’s cheaper.

...it is?!?