On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[networkpro]

IMO they're both to blame with the IP centric junk. They have killed Epcot by adding in IP everywhere. Hollywood Studios is the most random park now with more IP that doesn't fit the original concept.

I disagree heartily. Epcot lost as Edutainment died off, it had nothing unique that couldn't already be found on the internet.

 

[tirian]

No matter the factors....not good for Disney/travel

Eisner built TWDC into a top level entertainment juggernaut.

Pressler was a suit that torpedoed the banana republic.

I know people who proactively left Gap corporate as soon as Pressler was announced. They lived in San Francisco and saw what Pressler did to Disneyland.

 

[tirian]

I disagree heartily. Epcot lost as Edutainment died off, it had nothing unique that couldn't already be found on the internet.

Although if the park had pursued its big-scale vision from 1982 and the ‘80s expansions, it would’ve remained unique. Only Communicore and post-ride kiosks were truly “edutainment,” and they were designed to be easily replaced over the years. Everything else typically focused on a historical jump to the future to avoid making the whole attraction outdated. Certain scenes were film-based to allow for new content, but Disney never updated Epcot the right way.

 

[tirian]

IMO they're both to blame with the IP centric junk. They have killed Epcot by adding in IP everywhere. Hollywood Studios is the most random park now with more IP that doesn't fit the original concept.

True.

 

[tirian]

Didn’t say “Paul was good” or “Jack was bad” at all.

Actually, I think the creative for DCA, Tomorrowland 98, Light Magic, etc. were all terrible.

I’m just illustrating how Disney fans selectively apply facts. I can list a dozen positives and negatives for all of them.

That’s why I look at the actual situations and don’t create fictional characters to love or hate.

All creative companies will have hits and misses. The big question is whether a company keeps pursuing new horizons or exploits a back-library to coast on nostalgia for the foreseeable future, compounded by whether the leaders understand why the nostalgia exists in the first place.

For that reason, I largely agree with the point you’re making, and would add Disney hasn’t been consistent since Walt died. After his passing, the company either had successful animated movies or successful live-action or successful theme parks, but never a combination of all three except for the brief era of Eisner/Wells.

 

[Jrb1979]

I disagree heartily. Epcot lost as Edutainment died off, it had nothing unique that couldn't already be found on the internet.

I was talking more about what they are doing to world showcase. IMO they would have been better off going back to some of the original attractions that were planned for the different countries. Instead of Ratatouille build the boat ride Germany was supposed to have. Take the money wasted on Galaxy's Edge and use to build the Mt Fuji coaster. Frozen doesn't belong in World Showcase either.

 

[SoFloMagic]

Quite an important bit:

”It’s worth noting that neither study factors in the role wore face masks.”

Headline should be "covid transmitted on planes before masks were required"

 

[flynnibus]

It has nothing to do with the hassle. The job losses are just starting and that will affect travel greatly. I don't see any of the Orlando are parks getting back to pre Covid levels for a few years at best.

It has alot to do with the hassle. Disney’s demographic is still spending money like mad... but now they are spending on their homes. The driving forces behind who and why that goto disney has not fundamentally changed. The rich are still spending.

 

[UNCgolf]

I disagree heartily. Epcot lost as Edutainment died off, it had nothing unique that couldn't already be found on the internet.

I don't think the Internet has anything to do with EPCOT's woes. You can "ride" every ride at Disney via the Internet, and that hasn't stopped people from going. All the rides were still unique (not that most of them wouldn't have needed some sort of update by now). The post show stuff was the easiest part to update/replace, but they just chose not to -- and even most of that was hands-on/experiential, which isn't replicable via the Internet.

It's not like other hands-on science museums etc. have lost popularity. EPCOT stopped working because they stopped spending money on it and gave up on the original concept, turning it into a random mishmash.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't really think Internet has anything to do with EPCOT's woes. You can "ride" every ride at Disney via the Internet, and that hasn't stopped people from going. All the rides were still unique (not that most of them wouldn't have needed some sort of update by now). The post show stuff was the easiest part to update/replace, but they just chose not to -- and even most of that was hands-on/experiential, which isn't replicable via the Internet.

It's not like other hands-on science museums etc. have lost popularity. EPCOT stopped working because they stopped spending money on it and gave up on the original concept, turning it into a random mishmash.

Disney runs a service literally called Movies Anywhere. The idea of the internet somehow being a substitute for EPCOT Center but not movie-based rides is just laughable.

 

[starwarsfan2]

I wonder what Disney Parks could have been if they had tried to bring in Jobs to run the thing?

 

[Ldno]

There is zero chance of the 'travel industry goes completely under' - They are too essential to the economic engines of the countries. What you will have tho is great reduction and a few 'chosen ones' left behind. Look for more gov backed loans to allow the airlines to stay private, but they will gut themselves to stay alive.

Like you said gut, I am panicking now because I am thinking what if they start gutting flight schedules all of the sudden and fly lesser hours during the day, I like to fly early in the day so i can have more to do when I get there, some airlines are doing like 2-3 flights out the week, but my plane is still basically empty!! The only major setback would be the plans i had for the day but other than that, curious to see what happens.

Wouldn’t take the pay cut.

The Apple and Disney relationship is a love and hate thing. edited for language

 

[MrHappy]

Pixies
Unite.
C’mon people. I’ve been on these boards long enough, the tone has been wretched lately. Why is it now that ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that happens is met with such skepticism? Man, the Ratatouille sign can’t even change without someone being offended. Some guy the other day was ed about his 2022 plans. @Tuvalu was doubted. What is going on here? Keep it together. Debate as you must. Just remember why we are all here to begin with.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Don’t know Paul but certainly know a lot of the players in that company over the years.

Oh, and I assume since you are so passionate in your criticism of him, you must know him intimately to base such aim informed, nuanced opinion.

I worked in a business unit as a young pup that reported up the chain to him...met him briefly twice.

Reputation was “meh”...I’d say that’s accurate. He didn’t excel too much if you look at every turn. Disney store went into steep decline after he moved, parks went into a period of turmoil before be bailed, and the gap sucks (ok...not totally on him...but he didn’t help)

Beyond that, tell me about “the company”...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think it’s both:

Travel is currently too much of a hassle (it’s also banned in most moneybag areas) AND its just starting to get wrecked and that’s gonna keep going.

 

[flynnibus]

It's not like other hands-on science museums etc. have lost popularity. EPCOT stopped working because they stopped spending money on it and gave up on the original concept, turning it into a random mishmash.

Remember when epcot was designed, viewing multiple countries meant going to the library and flipping through National Geographic. There was no form of film on demand... people didnt evn really have VHS yet.. and most people had just a handful of tv stations... not hundreds. Nevermind the lack of ethnic foods, etc.

Completely differnet experience to what a a millienial would have had...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Remember when epcot was designed, viewing multiple countries meant going to the library and flipping through National Geographic. There was no form of film on demand... people didnt evn really have VHS yet.. and most people had just a handful of tv stations... not hundreds. Nevermind the lack of ethnic foods, etc.

Completely differnet experience to what a a millienial would have had...

If you’re saying “the internet killed Epcot”...I patented that phrase over in the Sugar Gum Drop Forums in about 2010

 

[MisterPenguin]

The Internet didn't kill Epcot. It only killed Future World. World Showcase will be killed by Virtual Reality.

 

[marni1971]

Headline should be "covid transmitted on planes before masks were required"

Exactly. A less sensationalist headline would read “Covid transmitted in supermarket in March before masks were introduced.“

 

[the.dreamfinder]

The Apple and Disney relationship is a love and hate thing. Movies Anywhere is a big F****** to itunes lolol

Yes, the service that had Apple as its first partner and helped drive digital and physical sales of films, which Apple is still the leading digital marketplace of.