On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[UNCgolf]

I don't have the armchair solution of what EPCOT should be for the future... I just know what was big-time in 1980 isn't anymore. And when you look around WS... i don't think they have done anything to address that.. in fact probably made it worse with the reduction in performers, etc.

In the commando schedule everything world of 2019 WDW that Disney has created... I don't think Disney left a place for "sitting back and just enjoying the fountain and trying to convince you that this is what the replace place is like".

Disney has priced 'relaxing' out of their own product.

Maybe the representations still works for a 6yr old... but even teenagers now have thousands of hours of exposure to these kinds of places before they ever set foot in the place. It's neat as a first timer, but you quickly see it for what it is.. a setting. I don't think its a destination upon itself anymore... its just where people go to find some variety in their DDP schedule.

I think the original concept is past its time.. and needs to be reimagined into something worth doing. But fitting that into the high volume, high paced world of WDW is a interesting challenge.

I don't see them changing it because of how much money they make off the food/beverage sales. Even though the DDP has made the quality of that food decline significantly.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't see them changing it because of how much money they make off the food/beverage sales. Even though the DDP has made the quality of that food decline significantly.

So it's a fancy Disney Springs that requires admission...

 

[UNCgolf]

So it's a fancy Disney Springs that requires admission...

Pretty much. Except sprinkled with some MK 2.0 like FEA and Rat.

That's also one of the many reasons that the fact they let Future World essentially rot in place for two decades is so awful.

 

[Tha Realest]

So it's a fancy Disney Springs that requires admission...

Ouch. You’re over target on this one. Harsh but true.

 

[networkpro]

Honestly, with the price of a Disney vacation now, those who go to Epcot can just as easily afford to go see the real thing, and take a side trip to DLP for a castle-park fix to boot. DVC hid the actual costs to me, but when we decided to sell and started to realize what we could do with our money, post-pandemic Europe will be winning out over #23 trip to Florida . . .

The costs are similar, but then again if you're somewhat near Florida (either by air or by automobile) you dont have to deal with the hassle of Customs, money exchange, a 6-hour flight, and facile value proposition.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Ouch. You’re over target on this one. Harsh but true.

How tall do you have to be to ride Paddlefish, and are there any drops?

 

[flynnibus]

The costs are similar, but then again if you're somewhat near Florida (either by air or by automobile) you dont have to deal with the hassle of Customs, money exchange, a 6-hour flight, and facile value proposition.

Honestly the biggest difference is simply time investment. Americans don't put enough days in vacation so the idea of losing more time to travel scares them to death.... and would rather do 3 different things in a week than go spend 2 weeks traveling Europe.

 

[UNCgolf]

Honestly the biggest difference is simply time investment. Americans don't put enough days in vacation so the idea of losing more time to travel scares them to death.... and would rather do 3 different things in a week than go spend 2 weeks traveling Europe.

Especially since travel to Europe involves giving up basically two full days just for the travel.

Yes, you can fly overnight to get there (and that's what I've typically done), but it's often difficult to sleep on the airplane and then your first day at your destination is a tired slog.

 

[Lilofan]

Especially since travel to Europe involves giving up basically two full days just for the travel.

Yes, you can fly overnight to get there (and that's what I've typically done), but it's often difficult to sleep on the airplane and then your first day at your destination is a tired slog.

Melatonin 10mg and not even mini turbulence would wake me up.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Because it’s cheaper.

Does anyone remember the Spain pavilion they did at Food and Wine back in the early aughts?

 

[networkpro]

Honestly the biggest difference is simply time investment. Americans don't put enough days in vacation so the idea of losing more time to travel scares them to death.... and would rather do 3 different things in a week than go spend 2 weeks traveling Europe.

The objective of a vacation to me is relaxation, not a Disney Death March or endless tour group drag. Two weeks is insufficient to cover Europe IMHO. You can zoom around and see things out of a bus or train window, but you dont experience much, just a carefully curated snippet.

Now if you were to go to Munich for Oktoberfest, Köln for Fasching for a targeted two weeks that would be different, but during tourist season you better learn Mandrin.

 

[Communicora]

Connect the dots... people not just want to take a picture, the instagram world wants to STAND OUT. No one is discovering or standing out by taking a instagram photo of the EPCOT version of the tower of london... or what everyone can pickout as the undersized WDW knockoff vs the grand originals.

International travel has increased, however only 42% of Americans even have a passport. People including children seem to still enjoy strolling through the world pavilions. I know it helped spark an interest in travel for me after visiting as a kid. Heck, I even enjoy it now after having visited some of these countries.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Especially since travel to Europe involves giving up basically two full days just for the travel.

Yes, you can fly overnight to get there (and that's what I've typically done), but it's often difficult to sleep on the airplane and then your first day at your destination is a tired slog.

Jet lag is also much more than a lack of sleep. The desynchronization of the change in time zone to your usual sleep-wake cycle has a bigger influence on why many people feel dead tired upon arriving in Europe. I used to fly over the Atlantic at least twice a year for over a decade, and getting fully knocked-out by ambien during the flight usually only had a relatively minor effect on how I felt in Europe for the first two days.

 

[UNCgolf]

Jet lag is also much more than a lack of sleep. The desynchronization of the change in time zone to your usual sleep-wake cycle has a bigger influence on why many people feel dead tired upon arriving in Europe. I used to fly over the Atlantic at least twice a year for over a decade, and getting fully knocked-out by ambien during the flight usually only had a relatively minor effect on how I felt in Europe for the first two days.

Yep. I didn't mean to imply that the slog was only due to not sleeping on the airplane.

 

[doctornick]

It seems like the conversation here is "nobody is impressed with World Showcase anymore" and also, "they ruined World Showcase with festivals and IP."

If "it's just like visiting the real place, only cleaner, safer, closer, smaller, and Americanized" doesn't attract guests anymore, why would they add any more "realistic" stuff to WS?

And if alcohol, festivals, and IP aren't the answer, what should be? So far, I've only seen @Jrb1979 provide a suggestion: a roller coaster.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do echo the point that what would most "help" WS would be having more attractions. I think it would be more popular if it wasn't viewed as "just" an area to shop/eat/drink. Each pavilion having a true large scale attraction would help to make each pavilion more of a destination and encourage folks to perhaps be more cognizant of each of them and perhaps slow down and enjoy them more. The existing rides and shows are fine (though updating the movies periodically would be good, which they'd mostly done or are planning) but having more rides in particular would be good. and not just the "same" stuff in each - why not the Mt Fuji coaster in Japan and the Rhine River Ride in Germany and a Pinocchio dark ride in Italy? There's an opportunity for a variety of experiences.

 

[Miss Bella]

Jet lag is also much more than a lack of sleep. The desynchronization of the change in time zone to your usual sleep-wake cycle has a bigger influence on why many people feel dead tired upon arriving in Europe. I used to fly over the Atlantic at least twice a year for over a decade, and getting fully knocked-out by ambien during the flight usually only had a relatively minor effect on how I felt in Europe for the first two days.

I always think flight attendants have an easy job until I fly through several time zones. I have a lot of respect for people that put their bodies through that on a weekly basis.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I agree 100%!

BTW, I see this as the "secret sauce" in the success of Hamilton.

Part of the brilliance of Hamilton is the way it negotiates the history within the medium of musical storytelling - Lin Manuel Miranda likes to tell the story of him meeting with John Kander and talking about how overwhelming all the history was and how intimidating it was to try to include everything, to which Kander replied "You're not writing a history lesson, you're writing a musical - just write the parts that make a good musical" . . . Which Lin says flipped the switch and made the show much easier to write. It is of course fair to say Hamilton is not wholly accurate to the history, but by being so engaging as a musical it invites you to explore the real history on your own, and it is fair to say the show has renewed the interest in that era for the general public.

All this to say, I think that formula is important and would be useful in renewing the value of Edutainment in a Theme Park setting - there is an extent to which you must work backward from "which elements of this topic are conducive to a really fantastic themed experience?" You can still emphasize the educational elements from there, but you're built on the foundation of an exciting, dynamic attraction for the guest. The reverse doesn't work - unfortunately it doesn't matter how accurate or even entertaining the educational elements of your attraction are if they don't ultimately conflate with the way you're presenting them to achieve a great experience for the guest. The most accurate musical staging of the life of Alexander Hamilton would probably be boring as rocks.

You don't have enough time in one musical to expose the guests to every bit of that man's life. Similarly, you don't have enough time in one attraction to expose the guests to every facet of its subject. Pick the juciest ones and squeeze them tight, and chances are better people will walk out wanting to dive deeper into the subject on their own. And if not, at least you didn't waste their time with anything less than exciting.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Edutainment definitely isn't dead -- in fact, it's probably bigger now than it was when EPCOT opened.

There are tons of science museums, children's museums, etc. that offer hands-on experiences that are doing incredibly well; often better than they were doing before the Internet. There's been some evidence that the Internet has actually made those places more successful rather than less -- mainly that people see it and think "wow, that looks cool! I want to go see/do that!".

Have any of you ever seen the roving Pixar exhibit? It has been touring museums for some time, and it gets updated from time to time. It is very worthwhile. The hands-on aspect is what makes it so interesting.

 

[Dunston]

Not reading almost 250 pgs of posts. Was anything revealed in this thread aside from the general stuff about Iger sucking?

 

[brb1006]

Not reading almost 250 pgs of posts. Was anything revealed in this thread aside from the general stuff about Iger sucking?

Let me sum up the last couple of pages. Basically discussions about Non-Disney Parks and Disney Theme Parks, and the whole "Disney would been more popular if they had more roller coasters" and "Disney VS Six Flags VS Cedar Fair".