Pop culture has indeed taught us to spot the evil mastermind in any organization based on follicle count.
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On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace
- Thread starter pheneix
- Start date
Pop culture has indeed taught us to spot the evil mastermind in any organization based on follicle count.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I just don't think the availability of ethnic foods has changed that much. Smaller towns and areas still don't have access to Moroccan food, Norwegian food, even German food -- Mexican and Chinese yes (although some of the WS Mexican is more authentic than what you'd get in most Mexican restaurants in smaller areas), and Japanese in some places, but not everything. If you don't live in a big city, that stuff is still exotic. I spent 3 years in law school 10 years ago in a city with about 100,000 people, and they didn't have anything like that -- that's still the norm. I certainly don't know, but I would guess that anyone who doesn't live in one of the top 30 or so metro areas in the country doesn't have regular access to many of the foods in the WS.
Beyond that, though, I guess I've just never thought of World Showcase as ever that significant in the terms you're describing. Maybe it was in the early 80s when EPCOT first opened, but most of my memories of EPCOT are from the early 90s and later, and I never thought of World Showcase as something overly new and exciting. I'd seen pictures and videos of most of those places but I still enjoyed the WS -- now I've been to several of the countries and I still enjoy WS. But Future World was always the biggest draw.
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yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
You could argue the rise of replicas like Vegas are a testament to the value of World Showcase. Imitation, flattery, and all that.
I see what you're saying, and it makes sense theoretically, but in practice the popularity of World Showcase has not waned meaningfully enough to reflect what you're suggesting. World Showcase and its offerings are generally the reason EPCOT has held on at all in the wake of Future World's implosion.
Also, log on to Instagram and you'll notice that there are a good many people "standing out" with their photos from around World Showcase. The Social Currency the pavilions offer is not *quite* as valuable as their real-world equivalents, but people are far from sneezing at them.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I guess I misunderstood this post then:
I thought you were saying that people didn't want to visit WS anymore because they'd seen too many pictures on the internet. But the Instagram effect is the opposite- TONS of photos out there and yet everyone wants to go just to get that same photo.
Now you seem to be saying that people don't want to go to Epcot because the WS recreations are just "undersized knockoffs." So you're of the mind that the World Showcase concept isn't viable because the internet makes people rather see the real thing? If this were the case, then the Festivals are the reason people are coming to Epcot at all? Maybe Disney needs to crank out more limited edition popcorn buckets.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I mention them mainly because they show how WS was once unique, it lost that when others did it better. Anyone who goes through the Venitian and then goes through WS can feel the scale and immersion differences.
I'll repeat... "Imagine world showcase without the DDP, Illuminations, or the festivals" - and reassess that.
WS is where people go to get something (usually food or drink) because that's where Disney put it.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I'll repeat... " the instagram world wants to STAND OUT" - You don't stand out 'gramin the same old stuff. They use the term 'influencers' for a reason... they set ideals the minions all want to imitate because they all want to be that stand out photo themselves. You can't do that with same-ol-same-old.
Why do you think disney has invested in more festivals instead of more countries?
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
Neither of them could care less about the ride. It’s more of a “Mah Legacy” vs “Mah money!”
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I'm really trying to understand here. Didn't you start out lamenting the fact that Disney had "watered down" the WS experience with festivals and such?
BTW, there is certainly a desire to "stand out," as you're saying. But the vast majority of "influencers" don't have a global reach and don't put the time/money/effort into content that you seem to think they do. You don't have to "stand out" more than anyone else on the internet in order to be an "influencer," just more than the others in your little corner of the web. Most are copycats.
This is why there's a measurable jump in travel to Instagrammable places- not because people are out hunting for new, undiscovered locations, but because they want to recreate for their own followers what they've seen others already successfully do.
Disney hasn't pushed the "realism" of WS pavilions in a long time (probably for many of the reasons you're saying). But everyone here hates the idea of IP shoehorned in. Maybe you have a point and since WS in itself isn't "special" anymore, they have no choice but to make it more unique by adding more princesses.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
My personal stance (just that) is the rise of web and digital age has flooded our optic nerves with convenience to the point that:
A. It’s more difficult to “shock anyone” with things like facades and replicas
B. The memories created by such things are far more fleeting.
Neither of those things are good for dark style edutainment rides or 15 foot forced perspective replicas of the Eiffel Tower.
Prolly why they built a 500 ft tall one in Vegas, huh?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Yeah...that’s not Epcot. They set to build something that was distinctly NOT an amusement park.
The evolution is animal kingdom...theme and more of a ride system emphasis.
They failed to maintain one and finish another.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I know what they set out to do but all the information that is out there show what they originally planned for World Showcase. It included many more attractions that weren't IP based. Like the Mt. Fuji coaster, the Rhine River cruise. I'm saying they should have continued on that path. Instead they are trying to shoehorn in IP that fits. Frozen doesn't fit into Norway.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Correct...but they didn’t. Epcot was designed and built as the “crown jewel” of the Disney brothers era....
But since They never had lines down the block, starting with Eisner and continuing today it became “that expensive place”.
In an ideal world...someone who grew up with Epcot - a gen Xer - would rise to CEO and really put their might behind that park. And DAK for that matter...
And Iger can be hands off till that day.
...I can make myself available...just saying. For “a modest fee”
networkpro
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
I'm sorry that I can't make myself available. I would absolutely revile in driving the numbers of complaints to Guest Relations through the roof as I slaughtered sacred cows left and right.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
It seems like the conversation here is "nobody is impressed with World Showcase anymore" and also, "they ruined World Showcase with festivals and IP."
If "it's just like visiting the real place, only cleaner, safer, closer, smaller, and Americanized" doesn't attract guests anymore, why would they add any more "realistic" stuff to WS?
And if alcohol, festivals, and IP aren't the answer, what should be? So far, I've only seen @Jrb1979 provide a suggestion: a roller coaster.
If "it's just like visiting the real place, only cleaner, safer, closer, smaller, and Americanized" doesn't attract guests anymore, why would they add any more "realistic" stuff to WS?
And if alcohol, festivals, and IP aren't the answer, what should be? So far, I've only seen @Jrb1979 provide a suggestion: a roller coaster.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
The first part of your second sentence disqualifies you from the Canada pavilion. The second part rules you out for getting anywhere near the new India pavilion.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
Fill in the sinkhole and build MK 2.0. It's what the people want....
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Yeah...
“After hours events”
“Fireworks viewing parties”
“All you care to eat character dining experience”
networkpro
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
I see more of the "Epcot as a museum" crowd lamenting the death of Edutainment and how the modalities of how they interacted with technology in the 80's are no longer present. Also seen are Guests who no longer looking at World Showcase as a human zoo, but looking for commonality between their existence and others.
I remember in 1994 seeing a technology demonstration of this new fangled high definition digital TV in Innovations. I also remember all of these countries I'd only read about in books vs now when I've been to all of them (and quite a few more). Interacting with cultural representatives in their own languages as well as having cultural knowledge to interpret nuance now is quite different as well.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
The roller coaster was just one example. If anyone is interested look up what was originally planned for World Showcase. Almost every country had an attraction of some kind. Germany to was supposed to have a Rhine River cruise. I'm saying why not go back to that. Instead we have Lex Luthor and his croney pushing IP everywhere.