Yes. Shocking I know....it is?!?
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On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace
- Thread starter pheneix
- Start date
_caleb
Well-Known Member
carolina_yankee
Well-Known Member
As a late Boomer/early GenXer, World Showcase is mostly boring to me without the festivals now that I've seen it so many times. The festivals aid the repeat visits, and I'm definitely *not* a Drink Around The World type. I like things that show off the culture of each country, so the holiday festival works best in that regard.
However, if each country had a worthy attraction (great film and/or ride) that celebrated that country's history/culture in fun ways, I'd be happy to return as often as possible.
The staleness of Epcot is really represented by Future World to me. I remember it in 1988/89 and even in 2003 (Big gap in-between). It's just uninteresting for the most part, except for Land. I was going to give "New Epcot" a shot when they finished everything, but the Pandemic put paid to that. I'm just not interested in cut back plans and evidence of a half-razed park for the next few years.
So, I'm turning my sites onto visiting the real things. I want to get back to Disney, but Epcot won't be a driver for a very long time, I suspect. Honestly, I feel the same way about DHS. I've had a chance to check out TLS and SWGE and gone through all the mania associated with each, and I'm good. I feel like both parks have lost their soul, and the IP drive is just a sign to me the Disney isn't led by dreamers any more. I'm not opposed to IP in concept, but heck, they didn't even dream up half the IP . . .
However, if each country had a worthy attraction (great film and/or ride) that celebrated that country's history/culture in fun ways, I'd be happy to return as often as possible.
The staleness of Epcot is really represented by Future World to me. I remember it in 1988/89 and even in 2003 (Big gap in-between). It's just uninteresting for the most part, except for Land. I was going to give "New Epcot" a shot when they finished everything, but the Pandemic put paid to that. I'm just not interested in cut back plans and evidence of a half-razed park for the next few years.
So, I'm turning my sites onto visiting the real things. I want to get back to Disney, but Epcot won't be a driver for a very long time, I suspect. Honestly, I feel the same way about DHS. I've had a chance to check out TLS and SWGE and gone through all the mania associated with each, and I'm good. I feel like both parks have lost their soul, and the IP drive is just a sign to me the Disney isn't led by dreamers any more. I'm not opposed to IP in concept, but heck, they didn't even dream up half the IP . . .
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I'm glad SOMEONE saw what I was TRYING to do there!...well if that isn’t the most ironic/paradoxical statement ever
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Caritas Enim animalium
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything you said. I think the problem now is too many Disney fans only care about IP. Your casual GP only is drawn by IP
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I thought it was more “magical”...honestly
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I've said it before, but I think architecture will only get you so far in creating a memorable place that people want to experience. It's culture that World Showcase needs.
WS has the same problem that SWGE has without aliens and droids, and the same that the Main Streets have without streetmosphere. I know without international College Program students it's even more of a challenge, but these places should be filled with the sights and sounds of inhabited places. That's where the personal experiences come into play, and the places become much more special, remarkable, and attractive.
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
The funny thing is, the popular attractions are either park original IP (Small World, Mansion, Pirates, Space Mountain) or IP Disney clearly doesn’t care about (Snow White, Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, And the dreaded IP they’re scared of).
Frozen was a flop (60 minutes on a good day). Mermaid was a flop. One of the Star Wars attractions wasn’t a flop, but the other two...yikes.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
So you're saying the new stuff attracts visitors only to disappoint them, but the old stuff will make their experience great? Hmm. I need to think about this one for a while...
flynnibus
Premium Member
No - I said "It's biggest draw and awe is completely watered down now. No one walks into Italy anymore and is awed by the architecture... no one walks through England and feels like they are near the tower. It's a backdrop... no longer a 'travel the world' experience. People have had far too much exposure beyond the photos or grainy TV that the boomer generation grew up with."
I said it's biggest draw - the awe - which comes from having all these places recreated here - is watered down. It's antiquated by today's standards, and its impact is greatly diminished because of the type of exposure and access people have to these places and culture now.
I said "imagine what World Showcase would be to adults these days if Disney hadn't come up with the festivals..." -- Meaning if you took DDP, Festivals, and Illuminations away from the WS you know today... look at what you really have. Are the backdrops and attractions really what bring people into World Showcase over and over? Or is it people are really just there for the festivals and restaurants?
Which I reiterated the point with highlighting where and how World Showcase has been expanded for the last 30 years... that should help bring into focus what drives interest.
carolina_yankee
Well-Known Member
Honestly, with the price of a Disney vacation now, those who go to Epcot can just as easily afford to go see the real thing, and take a side trip to DLP for a castle-park fix to boot. DVC hid the actual costs to me, but when we decided to sell and started to realize what we could do with our money, post-pandemic Europe will be winning out over #23 trip to Florida . . .
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I said it earlier, but I don't think that was the draw of World Showcase for most of its existence.
Maybe in the early 80s, sure, but by the 90s, I don't think maybe people were looking at it as a "travel the world" experience. I know I wasn't, and yet I still liked it. I think you're coming at it from a flawed premise.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Edutainment definitely isn't dead -- in fact, it's probably bigger now than it was when EPCOT opened.
There are tons of science museums, children's museums, etc. that offer hands-on experiences that are doing incredibly well; often better than they were doing before the Internet. There's been some evidence that the Internet has actually made those places more successful rather than less -- mainly that people see it and think "wow, that looks cool! I want to go see/do that!".
flynnibus
Premium Member
I never compared it to the 90s... I compared it to when WS was conceived and what it was built for.. in the late 70s. The draw it had to the middle aged person in 1983... compared to the middle aged person today. The premise under which it was built, does not have the same punch and purpose today as it did when it was built.
And why in part the mob really don't care that culture attractions are being replaced by 'Disney brand entertainment'. The stuff being replaced they have little interest in... they don't need WS anymore to get that kind of stuff in such live mediums.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
That's fair.
I also don't think World Showcase was ever the major draw for EPCOT (at least other than potentially when it first opened, as you mentioned) -- it's typically been more of a place to get food you maybe can't get at home, and definitely can't get elsewhere in the parks, as well as doing a bit of fun exploration.
Future World was the big draw in my eyes (and I think most others), and most of the original pavilions could be humming along quite nicely today if they'd been willing to make the necessary investments.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Got it! Thanks. Guess I was a little dense on that one.
For some reason, I thought you were saying Disney has "watered down" the experience with festivals and IP. But you're saying the world has changed, making WD less impressive than it once may have been. Which makes sense to me.
Does this mean you're for IP-ification of WS? Or maybe some alternative approach to keeping it relevant?
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I think this is right, and I think it's what pushed Disney to rethink World Showcase and start pulling in IP. Originally, guests may have approached WS as "almost like visiting the real thing!" but as @UNCgolf has been saying, that's probably not been the case for a while now.
So what is WS if not a taste of exotic real-world places? Apparently, Disney's answer is "a food court and extension of Hollywood Studios."
One very unique aspect of World Showcase is that every country merchandise shop has some unique clothing, food, drink, decorative items one cannot find anywhere in the USA. The Helly Hansen sportswear at Norway is my favorite.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I don't have the armchair solution of what EPCOT should be for the future... I just know what was big-time in 1980 isn't anymore. And when you look around WS... i don't think they have done anything to address that.. in fact probably made it worse with the reduction in performers, etc.
In the commando schedule everything world of 2019 WDW that Disney has created... I don't think Disney left a place for "sitting back and just enjoying the fountain and trying to convince you that this is what the replace place is like".
Disney has priced 'relaxing' out of their own product.
Maybe the representations still works for a 6yr old... but even teenagers now have thousands of hours of exposure to these kinds of places before they ever set foot in the place. It's neat as a first timer, but you quickly see it for what it is.. a setting. I don't think its a destination upon itself anymore... its just where people go to find some variety in their DDP schedule.
I think the original concept is past its time.. and needs to be reimagined into something worth doing. But fitting that into the high volume, high paced world of WDW is a interesting challenge.