Construction bids going out for TLM attraction?

goodtimes5286

New Member
Its got a nicely themed queue which tries to impart the story of the attraction. I'm sorry but this is just poor storytelling. The queue should be used to enhance the story (if there is one), to provide backstory and/or to provide atmosphere and ambience, but not to be the main storytelling device. Just my opinion of course.

Then you have the ride. A very boring ride. Now, this is with none of the effects working (unless you count the very obvious screen yeti and the strobe yeti as effects, which I might at a Six Flags, but not at a Disney park) but there just isn't enough going on around you to make up for the incredibly slow, boring ride. BTMRR is a more thrilling ride than EE, plus it has things to look at.
I was curious myself about the way they told the story of EE. I asked Joe why he did this instead of using a T.V. or a CM that told that story, something of that sort. His responce was that he likes people to gain the story at there own pace. Someone who is a young child might not get very much, but riding it time after time and going through the queue over and over again you see new things and you understand more of the story then you did previous. As opposed to other rides where you see the video and know it all. EE's queue has depth and layers.

A very boring ride?? imo its not that boring and 2 its WAY more exciting then pirates. I lost my christmas mickey hat on EE while taking a picture (:cry:), on pirates i couldnt lose something if i threw it stright up in the air.

And if your gonna talk about the auctioneer, the yeti is far more sophisticated and it has as much power as a 747. imo it's the croud that makes the scene more then the auctioneer. (WE WANT THE RED HEAD, WE WANT THE RED HEAD!!).

Taking all of the hype into account i guess EE could be concidered an alright attraction and pirates seams amazing b/c it doesnt have any hype. But by the way the PoTC's are talked about on WDW you'd expect them to do backflips or something (ive only been to DL's pirates sadly, never been to DLP or Tokyo).

Also is it just me or is DL's space mountain terrible?? Doesnt it just go forward, left, forward, left, forward, left? B/c when i got off of it the 1st thing i wanted to do was go back home to our rickety death trap that offered WAY more
That's just silly. Fallen asleep? Whatever, I guess. I've ridden BTMRR and with my hands up I always go sliding from side to side if I'm riding solo. That's an experience you don't get on EE. I don't ride Disney rides for "intensity" I ride them for the experience which is completely lacking on EE. If I want intensity I'll go to Six Flags or Busch Gardens or even IoA and ride a REAL rollercoaster. Seriously, every rollercoaster on Disney property is a gentle ride, so should be if it were properly maintained.
yeah i could fall asleep....if it wasnt for the lift hills, OMG someone needs to fix that noise. EE > BTRR just b/c i dont have to close my ears.

if sliding on a ride makes BTRR > then EE then ok. Personally i dont go to theme parks alone, its VERY lonely. Plus you cant do that on SM or RnRC either, do they lack 'experiences' now too?

EE does have an experience, maybe you just dont get it? Try taking off your biased glasses and riding it again.

n RnRC's blast off is way faster then hulk DD, or any other theme park in florida, what now about it not being a real coaster?
 

marsrunner

New Member
I was curious myself about the way they told the story of EE. I asked Joe why he did this instead of using a T.V. or a CM that told that story, something of that sort. His responce was that he likes people to gain the story at there own pace. Someone who is a young child might not get very much, but riding it time after time and going through the queue over and over again you see new things and you understand more of the story then you did previous. As opposed to other rides where you see the video and know it all. EE's queue has depth and layers.

A very boring ride?? imo its not that boring and 2 its WAY more exciting then pirates. I lost my christmas mickey hat on EE while taking a picture (:cry:), on pirates i couldnt lose something if i threw it stright up in the air.

And if your gonna talk about the auctioneer, the yeti is far more sophisticated and it has as much power as a 747. imo it's the croud that makes the scene more then the auctioneer. (WE WANT THE RED HEAD, WE WANT THE RED HEAD!!).

Taking all of the hype into account i guess EE could be concidered an alright attraction and pirates seams amazing b/c it doesnt have any hype. But by the way the PoTC's are talked about on WDW you'd expect them to do backflips or something (ive only been to DL's pirates sadly, never been to DLP or Tokyo).

Also is it just me or is DL's space mountain terrible?? Doesnt it just go forward, left, forward, left, forward, left? B/c when i got off of it the 1st thing i wanted to do was go back home to our rickety death trap that offered WAY more

yeah i could fall asleep....if it wasnt for the lift hills, OMG someone needs to fix that noise. EE > BTRR just b/c i dont have to close my ears.

if sliding on a ride makes BTRR > then EE then ok. Personally i dont go to theme parks alone, its VERY lonely. Plus you cant do that on SM or RnRC either, do they lack 'experiences' now too?

EE does have an experience, maybe you just dont get it? Try taking off your biased glasses and riding it again.

n RnRC's blast off is way faster then hulk DD, or any other theme park in florida, what now about it not being a real coaster?

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are quite clearly insane. :)

I know reading is a difficult thing for some (as is spelling, apparently) so I'll just deal with your little 'points' one by one and then I'm done with this thread.

Pirates isn't supposed to be more "exciting" than EE. Pirates isn't a thrill ride. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Yes, the yeti is more sophisticated than the Auctioneer. My point is you said pirates had a couple of AAs that barely moved, which is obviously just plain wrong. The yeti is more sophisticated, but that effect isn't working now, and even if it was you'd only see for about five seconds, so what's the point?

The lifthills are noisy on BTMRR on purpose, I believe...it is a runaway mine train after all.

What exactly isn't to get about EE? I get it. I just don't want it. I've ridden it five times, I'm pretty sure even I could "get" the attraction as thickheaded as I am.

I don't go to theme parks alone often either. However, my wife and my two kids ride in one row and I ride in another so that we don't have to worry about my little girl sliding around in the car and hurting herself.

Yes, the lift off of RnRC is faster than Hulk. But there's only two inversions and the ride lasts a whopping 1:22. Hulk has seven and lasts 2:15. Hulk goes faster than RnRC as well (67 mph vs. 60mph) if that matters. Hulk blows RnRC right out of the water.
 

SirGoofy

Member
As a Disney coaster, BTMR>EE. By far. It isn't even close in my opinion.

And RnRC is the single most overrated E-ticket on WDW property.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
As a Disney coaster, BTMR>EE. By far. It isn't even close in my opinion.

And RnRC is the single most overrated E-ticket on WDW property.

EE>Space Mountain>RnRC>BTMR>Primevil Whirl>Barnstormer...for adults.

For a family with kids...BTMR clearly tops them all.

Granted, EE loses a lot with the Yeti down and the other effects not functioning reliably.
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
Let's go ahead and NOT talk about Expedition Everest.



It hurts my brain, and makes me Hulk-angry.

"I wholeheartedly agree, however coming from you it really ticks me off."
-
Kyon
 

CaptainMichael

Well-Known Member
There are several reasons for this. The first reason is due to the sheer size of the organization. There are so many managers and departments it's hard to keep track of. All of these people need to get paid despite how useful they may or may not be. Believe me there are a good number of highly paid WDI employees that are about as valuable as a snow cone to an Eskimo.

I can remember one department head while working on Indiana Jones for Anaheim. She insisted on a specific Wildfire color for one scene that was just a slight shade darker than one they had available off-the-shelf. There was a battle regarding that issue for months! Making a long story short, she got her way at double the cost and time that would have been needed to simply go with the other color. Believe me, if you were to look at the two colors side by side only the most skilled artist might be able to tell the difference. The time in research and mixing and experimenting to get that color yielded only two benefits: bragging rights and justification for her position. There is a LOT of that going on at WDI.

Egos cause a good chunk of the problem. There are a good number of low and mid-level managers that work against the process and actually demotivate their designers and craftsmen. They take credit for everything and spend most of their time going to lunch and useless meetings. I realize this is nothing unusual in the corporate world but I'm pointing out that WDI is not immune to it and seems to actually attract these kind of people.

WDI overhead is staggering! The amounts that are charged for jobs at WDI compared to similar jobs at, for example, Nasal would blow your mind.

Another problem is the hiring process is so beaurocratic that you've got too many of the best candidates never making it to the department head interviews because their application didn't include the keywords programmed to flag. On top of that, there are many people still there because of seniority that need to leave to make room for the more creative and up-to-date thinkers.

Really the main reason for the waste is the fact that they don't have to be creative when it comes to saving money. In the independent companies we are forced to be creative in this area and many times it yields surprising results that end up better than if we had taken the easy route.

In summary, get rid of as many "egos" as possible, downsize even more than they already have, change the hiring and recruitment process and expect more for the money. There is plenty more but that will give you a good start in understanding the challenges that need to be dealt with.
Thanks for the explanation. I guess this problem also contributes to the lack of new things we get. If they learned how to do more with less, more things would probably get approved.

EE (when fully operational) is good...not missing really much.
But for what it cost, it just could have been...more.
It's fairly short for a coaster, and really only has a couple actual show scenes.
If I recall my early information, there was to be more interaction with the Yeti, and a longer track.

Plus, the ride is just sad without all it's effects working. (Both waterfalls, train steam, mist in the caves, snow blowing off the mountain, Yeti, falcon, etc.)
It's kinda like riding BTM if the the rocks didn't work in the avalanche scene, the bat cave had no bats, the waterfall was turned off, and the flooded town was dry.:rolleyes:

Some extra track would go a LONG way. I hate breaking suddenly after the Yeti techno dance party.
 

marsrunner

New Member
Thanks for the explanation. I guess this problem also contributes to the lack of new things we get. If they learned how to do more with less, more things would probably get approved.



Some extra track would go a LONG way. I hate breaking suddenly after the Yeti techno dance party.

Maybe if it was a techno dance party complete with giant disco ball and "Disco Inferno" and a brake run right in front of the Yeti I'd like it more!
 

iheartdisney91

Well-Known Member
to be honest i dont really like it. if there gonna go water at MK, why not go with nemo? The movie made way more then the stitch we see EVERYWHERE and theres an AMAZINGLY popular nemo ride in DL (ive NEVER seen a line that long in my LIFE). Why go back to the little mermaid, it seams too dated to me to be a NEW attraction with draw.

How good is attendance for the mermaid show at DHS? The park that had the LEAST people attending for 2008?

probably because TLM basically saved Disney, it made so much money, people (like me) still LOVE it and in my oppinion its the best movie. plus Epcot and AK are home to Nemo attractions already in WDW
 

Chape19714

Well-Known Member
Let's go ahead and NOT talk about Expedition Everest.



It hurts my brain, and makes me Hulk-angry.

"I wholeheartedly agree, however coming from you it really ticks me off."
-
Kyon

Now there's a ride!

*ducks and covers*

And to further the points made...E-Ticket does NOT mean thrill.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
And to further the points made...E-Ticket does NOT mean thrill.

You're correct, Thrill does not mean E-Ticket, but at this stage in theme parks, it certainly doesn't hurt.

I brought a newbie to Disney World in December, and Pirates of the Caribbean was the first ride he went on. He was very underwhelmed. His biggest criticism was that you can't understand what the Pirates are saying, and if we're comparing the refurbishment of Pirates and Haunted Mansion that's a huge difference. He enjoyed Haunted Mansion, he enjoyed Jungle Cruise, and absolutely loved Spectromagic. It wasn't for a lack of understanding Disney, he picked it up pretty quick, now it's only one man's opinion, but his points held some validity.

To me, Pirates of the Caribbean right now is a favorite because of nostalgia purposes, I grew up going on that ride. Sure the refurbishment brought the movies into it, but it failed to do what the Haunted Mansion refurbishment did, and that's bring the existing parts of the ride up to date. IMO, post refurbs, Haunted Mansion is a much better ride.

Both of these rides rely heavily on their nostalgia to build credibility. I think if these types of rides were built today without a movie tie in, or thrill component, they wouldn't be as successful. I'm sure Disney feels the same way as they haven't made a new dark ride without the thrill/movie component since the Imagination with Figment, and that was poorly received. You could make the special effects arguments about that ride, you could make the story arguments about that ride, but I would argue that the special effects in Imagination with Figment, and the story, are both stronger than that of Pirates of the Caribbean. Pirates is superior in detail and scope, and is a far better experience, but at this point I fail to see how it can be considered an E-Ticket anymore.
 

whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
Both of these rides rely heavily on their nostalgia to build credibility. I think if these types of rides were built today without a movie tie in, or thrill component, they wouldn't be as successful. I'm sure Disney feels the same way as they haven't made a new dark ride without the thrill/movie component since the Imagination with Figment, and that was poorly received. You could make the special effects arguments about that ride, you could make the story arguments about that ride, but I would argue that the special effects in Imagination with Figment, and the story, are both stronger than that of Pirates of the Caribbean. Pirates is superior in detail and scope, and is a far better experience, but at this point I fail to see how it can be considered an E-Ticket anymore.
I'm certainly not going to argue that today's average park guest has a much shorter attention span and is unable to appreciate classic elements of a theme park attraction such as those found in Pirates. This is unfortunately the sad state of affairs we have to deal with due partially to our government schools, "MTV" media as well as fast food and Wal-Mart mentality.

You are not 100% incorrect in your assessment that adding thrill elements to the new attractions would make them more popular with the teen and young adult markets. The majority of these were raised on quick sound bytes, video games and an overall reduced educational standard. I'm not saying anyone that doesn't like Pirates is not intelligent. But I am saying that for the same reasons many can't appreciate great works of art or classical music for example, they don't have the ability to appreciate the "art" of something like Pirates. While there have always been people like that, it is becoming more prevalent as society continues on its spiral into "idiocracy."

The reason Imagination was poorly received is because it's a poor quality attraction in just about every way. i'm not sure what kind of argument you are trying to make by comparing Pirates with Imagination. You say yourself that Pirates is superior in detail and scope and overall experience. I think you answered your own question as to why Pirates is an E-ticket. With over 100 animatronics, full-scale sets, amazing detail, large show building and quality throughout, it qualifies as an E-ticket without question.
 

culturenthrills

Well-Known Member
EE (when fully operational) is good...not missing really much.
But for what it cost, it just could have been...more.
It's fairly short for a coaster, and really only has a couple actual show scenes.
If I recall my early information, there was to be more interaction with the Yeti, and a longer track.

Plus, the ride is just sad without all it's effects working. (Both waterfalls, train steam, mist in the caves, snow blowing off the mountain, Yeti, falcon, etc.)
It's kinda like riding BTM if the the rocks didn't work in the avalanche scene, the bat cave had no bats, the waterfall was turned off, and the flooded town was dry.:rolleyes:

That is one of the best explanations I have read about everything that is currently wrong about EE.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
I'm certainly not going to argue that today's average park guest has a much shorter attention span and is unable to appreciate classic elements of a theme park attraction such as those found in Pirates. This is unfortunately the sad state of affairs we have to deal with due partially to our government schools, "MTV" media as well as fast food and Wal-Mart mentality.

You are not 100% incorrect in your assessment that adding thrill elements to the new attractions would make them more popular with the teen and young adult markets. The majority of these were raised on quick sound bytes, video games and an overall reduced educational standard. I'm not saying anyone that doesn't like Pirates is not intelligent. But I am saying that for the same reasons many can't appreciate great works of art or classical music for example, they don't have the ability to appreciate the "art" of something like Pirates. While there have always been people like that, it is becoming more prevalent as society continues on its spiral into "idiocracy."

The reason Imagination was poorly received is because it's a poor quality attraction in just about every way. i'm not sure what kind of argument you are trying to make by comparing Pirates with Imagination. You say yourself that Pirates is superior in detail and scope and overall experience. I think you answered your own question as to why Pirates is an E-ticket. With over 100 animatronics, full-scale sets, amazing detail, large show building and quality throughout, it qualifies as an E-ticket without question.

I've often wondered about how the attention span and intelligence of society affects the products Walt Disney World and similar parks produce, but ultimately, I don't think it should be that big of a factor. I think comparing a theme park attraction to the arts is a bit of a stretch because theme parks are never going to be at as high of a "bar". Fewer people now may read James Joyce, but there is no theme park equivalent.

Whatever new novel Dan Brown produces will be one of the all time best selling, and while he's no Joyce, he's no Harlequin Romance author, either (and although I loathe Brown, I think it minimally requires more wherewithal to read his novel than it does to understand or appreciate even the finest theme park attraction). That popularity alone suggests to me that enough of society has the intelligence/attention (appreciation, whatever quality you want to call it) to appreciate a higher quality of theme park attraction. I guess I just find it hard to believe that there is much of an issue that would necessitate (or allow, as you're suggesting) demeaning attractions to appeal to the lowest common denominator of guests.

Concisely, I think demeaning the attractions is a symptom of a different problem than that.

In any case, we both should hope that you're wrong about guests. It's a self-defeating argument. If the majority of guests don't have the basic cognitive ability to appreciate more detailed or nuanced attractions, what is the point of making them? Do they have some intrinsic value that otherwise justifies their production? I think if society can't understand the attractions, you're going to have a tough argument in building these attractions. That's before you even get to the "bean counters/accountants/legal"; that's just at a basic common sense level. Why make a product if there is an inadequate audience?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
People (even dumbed down, and I would say people are dumber than ever) still know quality when they experience it.

They know Mansion is quality ... that Splash Mountain is ... that ToT is ... that AA is ... that KS is ... etc ...

People can still (largely) tell.

If someone goes on PoC today for the first time and is disappointed then I'd chalk that up to the fact it got a half-arsed rehab mixing 1973 and 2006 sound and often has many effects non-functioning.

If the WalMarting of America truly resulted in a nation of total bumpkins who couldn't tell quality from crap than things like Stitch's Great Belchoff, MILF, Aladdin's Magical Spinner, Tiki Room Under Tom Fitzgerald's Management and Journey Into WDI's Lack of Imagination Version 3.0 would be huge successes ... they aren't.

But funny how people queue up for attractions like Jungle Cruise and Peter Pan and Small World and Mansion ... things that go back to the 1950s and 60s.

Yeah, people are dumber ... people do accept less and have been conditioned to ... but do they recognize quality?

You look at what attractions drive attendance at WDW and you decide.
 

MousDad

New Member
^ I'm confused. Are people dumber or not? What's worse - people being dumber yet still recognizing quality, like you say they are, or people being smarter and not recognizing quality?

I'm just messing with you, because I find your post contradictory.

I agree with alot of your assessments, even some about Walmarting. But your occasional crutch of people now being dumber than they were 20 years ago is just plain lame, 74.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I think the point that people have gotten dumber is a valid one.

With regards to the Pirates refurb, the people that love it are most often the people that are also infatuated with Johnny Depp. That being said the Depp animatronics are impressive, but they cloud what was actually wrong with the attraction, the sound quality and other shoddy effects.
 

kcnole

Well-Known Member
I can understand someone not being blown away with our current iteration of Pirates in WDW. That said, its not because it isn't thrilling. You let them ride the DL version (which did get all new audio) and I think you'll see a different response.

It doesn't require thrill to be an E ticket attraction. If you can look at HM or SSE and not think E ticket then you've got problems.
 

whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
I've often wondered about how the attention span and intelligence of society affects the products Walt Disney World and similar parks produce, but ultimately, I don't think it should be that big of a factor. I think comparing a theme park attraction to the arts is a bit of a stretch because theme parks are never going to be at as high of a "bar". Fewer people now may read James Joyce, but there is no theme park equivalent.

Whatever new novel Dan Brown produces will be one of the all time best selling, and while he's no Joyce, he's no Harlequin Romance author, either (and although I loathe Brown, I think it minimally requires more wherewithal to read his novel than it does to understand or appreciate even the finest theme park attraction). That popularity alone suggests to me that enough of society has the intelligence/attention (appreciation, whatever quality you want to call it) to appreciate a higher quality of theme park attraction. I guess I just find it hard to believe that there is much of an issue that would necessitate (or allow, as you're suggesting) demeaning attractions to appeal to the lowest common denominator of guests.

Concisely, I think demeaning the attractions is a symptom of a different problem than that.

In any case, we both should hope that you're wrong about guests. It's a self-defeating argument. If the majority of guests don't have the basic cognitive ability to appreciate more detailed or nuanced attractions, what is the point of making them? Do they have some intrinsic value that otherwise justifies their production? I think if society can't understand the attractions, you're going to have a tough argument in building these attractions. That's before you even get to the "bean counters/accountants/legal" that's just at a basic common sense level. Why make a product if there is an inadequate audience?
Well once again I've managed to steer a topic of conversation from something as simple as a rumor regarding TLM ride in Florida, to a philosophical discussion comparing James Joyce to theme park attractions:drevil:.
I don't know if I agree that there is no theme park equivalent to the classic artistic works, or modern for that matter. Before I go into what I mean let me qualify that statement with the acknowledgment that today's theme park attractions are not initiated for the same reasons as a classical piece. Theme parks are purely driven by commercialism and pop culture. That doesn't mean however that the artistic achievements cannot be appreciated and compared to other quality works of the past and present.

I don't know what market James Joyce's literature attracts but I would assume the higher socioeconomic and education demographics would be the most likely group to enjoy it. These are not the same people that drive theme park business. They do account for a percentage however. The creators of Epcot attempted to cater to this group more than the Magic Kingdoms could. When an individual from this group can get over their intellectual snobbery they are able to appreciate theme park artistry and ingenuity; whether it is derived from Epcot's original humanistic and moral message experience, or just the simple fantasy escape offered by the Magic Kingdom.

Getting back to the main point, I would argue that the masters of the past would easily have created similar works of art to what we see in today's theme parks if they had the same technology and resources available to them. Can you imagine what kind of theme park Da Vinci would create?

If they had the ability to take their visions and produce a three-dimensional version of it most of them would have glady given their left ears for the chance. I have worked with many "renaissance" artists in this industry. One in particular could actually mix the pigments and oils, create a canvas and paint exactly as the masters did. His paintings were every bit as good as Michelangelo, Raphael or Botticello. Believe me when you compare a painting prepared "from scratch" versus those done with store-bought mixtures there is a marked difference. My point is that artists like that are common in this industry. Their works can be seen in three-dimensions throughout the parks.

As you know there have been several books written regarding theme park architecture. While this subject is still shunned by some in the architectural elite community, many have embraced it. They hail it as taking architecture to the next level in artistic expression and complexity.

Of coure art is not limited to paintings architecture and sculpture. Sounds, film, writing, dance and music are also examples of artisitc disciplines that can be found in the theme parks. There are some music scores and orchestrations in the parks that could easily stand side by side with some of the best symphonies and styles of the masters. In terms of tonal quality, harmonics, theme, harmonization, modulation, texture and form, these theme park music pieces will pass the tests. Of course I'm not talking about Yo Ho but more Journey to the Center of the Earth theme, Stormrider, Soarin', American Adventure etc.

I'll take this a step further: where else can you go to experience every artistic discipline at the same time in the same place? Think about the art that is employed in an attraction such as Pirates. Each element's form, texture, color, composition, perspective, staging, ad infinitum must be worked out to harmonize with each scene and the overall attraction storyline. On top of that we have lighting, dialog, sound effects, music and sculpture to add to the mix. What artistic discipline is not employed in an attraction such as Pirates? With the blending of art and technology I think Da Vinci would be proud.

I do hope I'm wrong about guests. The problem is that the Disney Company believes it to be so. Just look at the trend: Horizons, World of Motion and Kitchen Caberet replaced with a spin and puke ride, a warehouse thrill ride and a rock and roll sintra cutout show to a film simulator (which at least has a very well done score). Let's face it, Horizons, as much as a work of art that it was, was not popular anymore. The main park demographic would rather experinece G-force than a highly creative work that you ride through.

This is one argument I would love to be proven wrong about. In my experience however, the fast food/Wal Mart/Knocked Up movie generation would much rather enjoy a thrill on a non-themed coaster than ride through a "boring" omnimover attraction or visit a museum. I love coasters, but I also love museums, dark rides and theater. I know I'm "preaching to the choir" on this point, but I'm sure you'd agree that there is a marked difference between the teens and young adults of the 50's and 60's and how much they appreciated a good dark ride, to the same demographic today.

Part of me would love to say if we could just be given the chance to build another Omnimover attraction on the scale of Horizons or Pirates, infused with today's technology, we might see a resurgence in this type of theme park entertainment. Perhaps we'll see it with TLM ride. I sure hope so. I'm just telling you that I've seen surveys where independent park owners were interviewed regarding putting dark rides in their parks. 90% of them said they would not be willing to spend more than $4 million for a dark ride and would rather spend $15 million for a coaster. It doesn't make sense to me but it's a reality of today.
 

whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
People (even dumbed down, and I would say people are dumber than ever) still know quality when they experience it.

They know Mansion is quality ... that Splash Mountain is ... that ToT is ... that AA is ... that KS is ... etc ...

People can still (largely) tell.

If someone goes on PoC today for the first time and is disappointed then I'd chalk that up to the fact it got a half-arsed rehab mixing 1973 and 2006 sound and often has many effects non-functioning.

If the WalMarting of America truly resulted in a nation of total bumpkins who couldn't tell quality from crap than things like Stitch's Great Belchoff, MILF, Aladdin's Magical Spinner, Tiki Room Under Tom Fitzgerald's Management and Journey Into WDI's Lack of Imagination Version 3.0 would be huge successes ... they aren't.

But funny how people queue up for attractions like Jungle Cruise and Peter Pan and Small World and Mansion ... things that go back to the 1950s and 60s.

Yeah, people are dumber ... people do accept less and have been conditioned to ... but do they recognize quality?

You look at what attractions drive attendance at WDW and you decide.
I think there is some truth to what you are saying here. Many can still recognize quality and can discern the difference between Mansion and Journey Into Anti-Imagination. But that is a dramatic example of two extremes. What about the difference in quality from Splash Mountain and Everest? Or how about Tough to Be A Bug and Philarmagic? What about the Nemo dark ride from Horizons? In those examples I think you would have a more difficult time in finding an average guest that could discern the difference in quality.

As I said before, I hope WDW green lights TLM ride's full scope version and the guests surprise me. But if the average rider exits and says something like, "that was nice but I'd rather ride on Everest," or "that was as good as The Seas With Nemo and Friends" than unfortunately I'd still be right.

I'm sure one of the main reasons people queue up for Pan and Mansion is because many are repeat visitors, or word of mouth and marketing are in play.
 

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