Construction bids going out for TLM attraction?

[whylightbulb]

That's very unfortunate. Why does a company so hellbent on saving every last nickel allow this go on?

There are several reasons for this. The first reason is due to the sheer size of the organization. There are so many managers and departments it's hard to keep track of. All of these people need to get paid despite how useful they may or may not be. Believe me there are a good number of highly paid WDI employees that are about as valuable as a snow cone to an Eskimo.

I can remember one department head while working on Indiana Jones for Anaheim. She insisted on a specific Wildfire color for one scene that was just a slight shade darker than one they had available off-the-shelf. There was a battle regarding that issue for months! Making a long story short, she got her way at double the cost and time that would have been needed to simply go with the other color. Believe me, if you were to look at the two colors side by side only the most skilled artist might be able to tell the difference. The time in research and mixing and experimenting to get that color yielded only two benefits: bragging rights and justification for her position. There is a LOT of that going on at WDI.

Egos cause a good chunk of the problem. There are a good number of low and mid-level managers that work against the process and actually demotivate their designers and craftsmen. They take credit for everything and spend most of their time going to lunch and useless meetings. I realize this is nothing unusual in the corporate world but I'm pointing out that WDI is not immune to it and seems to actually attract these kind of people.

WDI overhead is staggering! The amounts that are charged for jobs at WDI compared to similar jobs at, for example, Nasal would blow your mind.

Another problem is the hiring process is so beaurocratic that you've got too many of the best candidates never making it to the department head interviews because their application didn't include the keywords programmed to flag. On top of that, there are many people still there because of seniority that need to leave to make room for the more creative and up-to-date thinkers.

Really the main reason for the waste is the fact that they don't have to be creative when it comes to saving money. In the independent companies we are forced to be creative in this area and many times it yields surprising results that end up better than if we had taken the easy route.

In summary, get rid of as many "egos" as possible, downsize even more than they already have, change the hiring and recruitment process and expect more for the money. There is plenty more but that will give you a good start in understanding the challenges that need to be dealt with.

 

[Vernonpush]

That effect is gone!?

I FREAKED over that when I saw it for the first time.:lol:

It's there, but it dosen't/hasn't move(d) down anymore.

 

[whylightbulb]

Out of curiosity, what is EE missing? It's beautifully themed queue, the forced prospective changing your view of the mountain from far away to when you get right next to it, the ride itself (tea trains, the story, the yeti...when it's working).

To be honest I think they did as good of a job researching and delivering disney quality for EE as they did for ToT (and WAY better then a ride like pirates or BTRR)

Seriously? Better than Pirates? I have posted very long diatribes in other threads regarding the lack of show elements and anything else that would make this ride more than just another coaster. In short, there is no show other than a sad shadow projector and an animatronic that doesn't work. The rock work is decent but other than that even BTMRR has more going for it than EE. It's a nice coaster and the queue is nice, but I expect much much more for the millions they claim the project costs.

 

[Vernonpush]

There are several reasons for this. The first reason is due to the sheer size of the organization. There are so many managers and departments it's hard to keep track of. All of these people need to get paid despite how useful they may or may not be. Believe me there are a good number of highly paid WDI employees that are about as valuable as a snow cone to an Eskimo.

I can remember one department head while working on Indiana Jones for Anaheim. She insisted on a specific Wildfire color for one scene that was just a slight shade darker than one they had available off-the-shelf. There was a battle regarding that issue for months! Making a long story short, she got her way at double the cost and time that would have been needed to simply go with the other color. Believe me, if you were to look at the two colors side by side only the most skilled artist might be able to tell the difference. The time in research and mixing and experimenting to get that color yielded only two benefits: bragging rights and justification for her position. There is a LOT of that going on at WDI.

Egos cause a good chunk of the problem. There are a good number of low and mid-level managers that work against the process and actually demotivate their designers and craftsmen. They take credit for everything and spend most of their time going to lunch and useless meetings. I realize this is nothing unusual in the corporate world but I'm pointing out that WDI is not immune to it and seems to actually attract these kind of people.

WDI overhead is staggering! The amounts that are charged for jobs at WDI compared to similar jobs at, for example, Nasal would blow your mind.

Another problem is the hiring process is so beaurocratic that you've got too many of the best candidates never making it to the department head interviews because their application didn't include the keywords programmed to flag. On top of that, there are many people still there because of seniority that need to leave to make room for the more creative and up-to-date thinkers.

Really the main reason for the waste is the fact that they don't have to be creative when it comes to saving money. In the independent companies we are forced to be creative in this area and many times it yields surprising results that end up better than if we had taken the easy route.

In summary, get rid of as many "egos" as possible, downsize even more than they already have, change the hiring and recruitment process and expect more for the money. There is plenty more but that will give you a good start in understanding the challenges that need to be dealt with.

That is disgusting! All you have to do is thin/sponge/mix the original colour with something to get a darker Wildfire colour!

Off the track, I love spattering drops with UV paint under blacklights - it's so 60's - and strobeic- strobeific - (is there a real word for it? - Webster says NO - I guess only those that have done it know what i'm talking about:lol

 

[Vernonpush]

Originally Posted by goodtimes5286
Out of curiosity, what is EE missing? It's beautifully themed queue, the forced prospective changing your view of the mountain from far away to when you get right next to it, the ride itself (tea trains, the story, the yeti...when it's working).
That is the major point of EE. When it's NOT working (as of late) that brings it down a notch or two.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

It's there, but it dosen't/hasn't move(d) down anymore.

That's a shame.

 

[Lee]

EE (when fully operational) is good...not missing really much.
But for what it cost, it just could have been...more.
It's fairly short for a coaster, and really only has a couple actual show scenes.
If I recall my early information, there was to be more interaction with the Yeti, and a longer track.

Plus, the ride is just sad without all it's effects working. (Both waterfalls, train steam, mist in the caves, snow blowing off the mountain, Yeti, falcon, etc.)
It's kinda like riding BTM if the the rocks didn't work in the avalanche scene, the bat cave had no bats, the waterfall was turned off, and the flooded town was dry.

 

[Jasonflz]

Well think about, what teenager in their right mind would like a teen girl who wears nothing but a seashell bra?

Exactly. I'm a teenager and would like NO seashell bra!:lol::lookaroun

 

[Vernonpush]

Exactly. I'm a teenager and would like NO seashell bra!:lol::lookaroun

Find a hobby!:lol: :lookaroun

 

[whylightbulb]

That is disgusting! All you have to do is thin/sponge/mix the original colour with something to get a darker Wildfire colour!

I know it's crazy! She just wasn't going to be happy until she could claim a new color in her name! All the swatches and mock ups didn't work for her no matter what scenic tried.

Like I said, this kind of thing is not unusual unfortunately. It happens all the time in every department.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Is that the effect where the green lasers in the front / sides started at the top and then descended with the water mist to give the illusion of "going underwater"? :shrug: I've missed that effect for quite a while. It was totally "immersive"!

No it's the effect of the Triton character himself moving and begin made up of lasers while he is "taking" to Ariel. When I last went only his voice was heard.

 

[Jasonflz]

No it's the effect of the Triton character himself moving and begin made up of lasers while he is "taking" to Ariel. When I last went only his voice was heard.

Triton is god!

 

[Vernonpush]

I know it's crazy! She just wasn't going to be happy until she could claim a new color in her name! All the swatches and mock ups didn't work for her no matter what scenic tried.

Like I said, this kind of thing is not unusual unfortunately. It happens all the time in every department.

I could understand if she was trying to get a more "vibrant colour" of UV paint (which I've tried - layering, spraying, stippling, and sponging UV paints in the "light pallette [sp?])", but a "lesser tone of paint" is kind of sad.

 

[lebeau]

True...but I mean, the LM show at the studios could definitely stand to be replaced...so, I couldn't see them having both this new ride and the old (90s state of the art) stage show up and running at the same time for too terribly long. It could happen, but I don't see it happening.

You're right. They would definitely spent lots of money developing a new show to replace a show that is still popular just because they built an expensive ride based around the same property at another park...:lookaroun

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

No it's the effect of the Triton character himself moving and begin made up of lasers while he is "taking" to Ariel. When I last went only his voice was heard.

Oddly enough, I don't recall that.:lol: I do remember the waves though.

 

[goodtimes5286]

EE (when fully operational) is good...not missing really much.
But for what it cost, it just could have been...more.
It's fairly short for a coaster, and really only has a couple actual show scenes.
If I recall my early information, there was to be more interaction with the Yeti, and a longer track.

Plus, the ride is just sad without all it's effects working. (Both waterfalls, train steam, mist in the caves, snow blowing off the mountain, Yeti, falcon, etc.)
It's kinda like riding BTM if the the rocks didn't work in the avalanche scene, the bat cave had no bats, the waterfall was turned off, and the flooded town was dry.

lol i dont think id notice, PLUS you cant compare anything on BTRR to the yeti, or even the yeti shadow ripping up the track. imo it needed a referb before HM, and def before what they actually DID on PoTC

Seriously? Better than Pirates? I have posted very long diatribes in other threads regarding the lack of show elements and anything else that would make this ride more than just another coaster. In short, there is no show other than a sad shadow projector and an animatronic that doesn't work. The rock work is decent but other than that even BTMRR has more going for it than EE. It's a nice coaster and the queue is nice, but I expect much much more for the millions they claim the project costs.

to quote lee "Both waterfalls, train steam, mist in the caves, snow blowing off the mountain, Yeti, falcon, etc." plus the shadowing of the yeti, the ripped up and reversed track, the inside the caves outside the mountain looks including the mountain AND the vegitation, rocks, etc.

pirates has what, a couple anamatronics that barely move, a removed talking skull (that was one of the coolest parts), a treasure room that i (admittedly) dont really get....i mean really what DOES pirates have? To be honest it's unfair to compare an attraction built now to then, but i think a lot of people have there nastalsia glasses on when they ride the old rides. It's impossible to compare rides of now to rides of then because people already have rides like pirates and SM up on a petalstil so high, NOTHING wdw builds would be able to surpass them.

Take someone who hasnt EVER been to disney and put them on PoTC and EE and see which one they're more impressed with

 

[marsrunner]

lol i dont think id notice, PLUS you cant compare anything on BTRR to the yeti, or even the yeti shadow ripping up the track. imo it needed a referb before HM, and def before what they actually DID on PoTC

Just my opinion of course, and not one shared by many people I'm sure, but everyone in my family just found EE to be the single most overrated (note I did not say worst) Disney attraction at any of the US parks.

Its got a nicely themed queue which tries to impart the story of the attraction. I'm sorry but this is just poor storytelling. The queue should be used to enhance the story (if there is one), to provide backstory and/or to provide atmosphere and ambience, but not to be the main storytelling device. Just my opinion of course.

Then you have the ride. A very boring ride. Now, this is with none of the effects working (unless you count the very obvious screen yeti and the strobe yeti as effects, which I might at a Six Flags, but not at a Disney park) but there just isn't enough going on around you to make up for the incredibly slow, boring ride. BTMRR is a more thrilling ride than EE, plus it has things to look at.

Even if the effects WERE working, I just don't think that flying past a yeti in the dark that you might see for all of five seconds is going to be that impressive, I don't care if its the most expressive, massive, articulated AA ever devised, you don't have time to see it. If anything, the amount of time you get to see the two appearances of the yeti should be switched so that you barely see the screen yeti ripping up tracks ahead of you and then you get to really see the AA yeti for a minute or so. Then you might have something impressive. As it is, its just not enough. And explanations that "Its the Yeti and nobody really knows if it exists" as an excuse for the blink-and-you-miss-it yeti are just that to me...excuses.

To even try to say the size, scope, presentation or success of EE is even close to PotC (especially the DL version but even the WDW one), Splash, Space (especially the DL version), BtMRR, the Mansion or any of about a dozen other classic and recent Disney attractions is just laughable.

In my opinion, of course.

pirates has what, a couple anamatronics that barely move
Take someone who hasnt EVER been to disney and put them on PoTC and EE and see which one they're more impressed with

Pirates has 125 AAs. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pirate Auctioneer is typically one of the more advanced AAs on property as they experiment with upgrades with him. Not sure if that's just DL, just WDW, both, or neither. Something that I've heard.

And I have taken people to WDW who've never been to any other theme park, and all five of them were more impressed with PotC than EE. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence and doesn't really mean anything other than to refute your baseless statement.

 

[Grim Grinner]

I consider Everest an entertaining coaster that just needs a little tender loving care. The g-forces that ride puts out gives it a level of intensity that Thunder Mountain just can't provide.

I've fallen asleep, it's that tranquil. I would call Goofy's Barnstormer a coaster in that same regard. You never have to hold on during Thunder Mountain...that should be a clue.

My biggest complaint about Everest is that the ride's duration is way too short, plus we need an end scene-something like a ruined mine car like the things we ride in. That way there's something like an impact of what we just escaped. With the Yeti not functioning, this added scene would be even more important.

 

[marni1971]

pirates has what, a couple anamatronics that barely move, a removed talking skull (that was one of the coolest parts), a treasure room that i (admittedly) dont really get....i mean really what DOES pirates have?

You`re joking, right?

 

[marsrunner]

I consider Everest an entertaining coaster that just needs a little tender loving care. The g-forces that ride puts out gives it a level of intensity that Thunder Mountain just can't provide.

I've fallen asleep, it's that tranquil. I would call Goofy's Barnstormer a coaster in that same regard. You never have to hold on during Thunder Mountain...that should be a clue.

My biggest complaint about Everest is that the ride's duration is way too short, plus we need an end scene-something like a ruined mine car like the things we ride in. That way there's something like an impact of what we just escaped. With the Yeti not functioning, this added scene would be even more important.

That's just silly. Fallen asleep? Whatever, I guess. I've ridden BTMRR and with my hands up I always go sliding from side to side if I'm riding solo. That's an experience you don't get on EE. I don't ride Disney rides for "intensity" I ride them for the experience which is completely lacking on EE. If I want intensity I'll go to Six Flags or Busch Gardens or even IoA and ride a REAL rollercoaster. Seriously, every rollercoaster on Disney property is a gentle ride, so should be if it were properly maintained.