SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[Disney Irish]

“Appealing to ignorance” is a category of debate fallacy. In This case…it encompasses “you can’t prove it’s be guaranteed…so therefore you can’t make a premise”

Wrong…not even a hard one to diffuse.

They teach those at Traditions…and Berkeley…so you should have caught that.

Thank you for educating me on something I already knew, and completely disagree with in this instance as you weren't arguing in good faith to begin with.

So I'm still holding your feet to the fire here. You make claims, and I'm asking you to prove those claims. Its easy to say you don't know, or can't prove your claim, or that you're spouting BS to try and prove a point. But I don't think you will because it goes against your narrative.

So here I'll make it easier on you, and even giving you an out.....

I'll concede that Disney has most likely lost some money in potential sales on SW (not that I ever said they didn't but beside the point), I don't know the amount but believe its not close to your claim that its Billions. Please provide any data to back it up to educate me on the reality since you believe I'm not educated on the subject. I'm willing to learn from you. If you can't that is fine just say so and we'll just walk away from this.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

As far as proving the untapped and unrealized billions, that’s very speculative. What is not is that the company inherited what had been, at the time, the most wildly successful movie franchise of all time and has tactically retreated from theatrical releases. It’s like it’s afraid of movie theaters.

We also have to consider the amount of time Star Wars was basically dormant under Lucas. Pent up demand is a big reason Phantom Menace and Force Awakens hit like they did.

Now that Star Wars content is being released frequently, it's unrealistic to expect those extreme highs.

Lucas released 3 prequels over 9 years. Disney released 5 movies over 6 years I believe. I wonder what the average revenue per year was during each of those periods? One could argue Lucas left a lot money on the table as well, but Disney is the one being criticized for a hypothetical loss of revenue.

 

[flynnibus]

Lucas released 3 prequels over 9 years. Disney released 5 movies over 6 years I believe. I wonder what the average revenue per year was during each of those periods? One could argue Lucas left a lot money on the table as well, but Disney is the one being criticized for a hypothetical loss of revenue.

Here is one interpretation of that very question

Star Wars: profit/loss of new movies 2024 | Statista

"The Force Awakens", the first "Star Wars" movie released since the acquisition of Lucasfilm in 2012, remains the most profitable production out of the sequel trilogy and other spin-offs.

www.statista.com

But I don't think you can take their 'profit' analysis with much weight since it's just comparing box office revenue - which isn't all the studio's.

Then add in the D+ live action budgets - which don't drive direct viewing dollars each - but have feature film sized budgets..
Mandolarian - 295mil (80+90+120)
Book of Bobba Fett - 105mil
Obi-Wan - 90mil
Andor - 135mil
Ahsoka - 100mil
Acolyte - 180mil
(various sources)

Adding those up.. that's about 905mil. Arguably that could be about the total profit of the 5 Live Action films...

But we know the ROI calculation isn't that simple... but it is interesting to look at the orders of magnitude involved. For all intents, each D+ show is the size of a feature film... without box office revenue to directly float it's production cost. There are a lot of non-star wars people subsidizing those shows

 

[erasure fan1]

One could argue Lucas left a lot money on the table as well, but Disney is the one being criticized for a hypothetical loss of revenue.

To be fair, Disney is being criticized because they own star wars now, not Lucas. He was criticized plenty. Lucas left millions on the table by not releasing a remastered original cut of the films on dvd/blueray. I'm guessing there's something in the contract that says Disney can't release the original cuts. Because if not, they are also leaving money on the table.

I'm not sure why so many seem to defend Disney star wars with........but what about Lucas, he did..... Who cares what George did, he took his lumps for stupid decisions and decided to sell to Disney. Disney owns it now. They had every opportunity to not make the same mistakes as Lucas. They just decided to run in blind, it had nothing to do with George.

 

[Disney Irish]

To be fair, Disney is being criticized because they own star wars now, not Lucas. He was criticized plenty. Lucas left millions on the table by not releasing a remastered original cut of the films on dvd/blueray. I'm guessing there's something in the contract that says Disney can't release the original cuts. Because if not, they are also leaving money on the table.

The rumors were always that the original prints were destroyed when Lucas made the remastered versions. As he always felt the originals weren't complete. So he never wanted to release the originals, so the rumors make sense. Sounds like something he would do, destroy them so they could never be rereleased.

I doubt there is anything in the contract that prevents Disney from releasing the original prints if they exist.

I'm not sure why so many seem to defend Disney star wars with........but what about Lucas, he did..... Who cares what George did, he took his lumps for stupid decisions and decided to sell to Disney. Disney owns it now. They had every opportunity to not make the same mistakes as Lucas. They just decided to run in blind, it had nothing to do with George.

The comparison is made because it shows that business decisions aren't made in a vacuum. Even if they seem like "mistakes" from the outside, there could be many reasons why Disney made similar decisions as Lucas. Including but not limited to it being run a person who was very close to Lucas, so made similar decisions on the business side that he would make.

 

[Serpico Jones]

I honestly think the decision has already been made, just not official yet, based on how Filoni was the one presenting for Lucas at D23 instead of Kennedy or anyone else.

The decision was made last summer. Disney don’t want to embarrass a producer with a 45 year track record so the announcement will be made sometime after Andor debuts on Disney+ so that she’ll go out on a high note.

The decision to make The Mandalorian movie was made by Jon Favreau and Bob Iger. Kennedy wasn’t involved. Look for Filoni to share duties with Lynwen Brennan who was recently promoted to president of Lucasfilm Business.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

To be fair, Disney is being criticized because they own star wars now, not Lucas. He was criticized plenty. Lucas left millions on the table by not releasing a remastered original cut of the films on dvd/blueray. I'm guessing there's something in the contract that says Disney can't release the original cuts. Because if not, they are also leaving money on the table.

I'm not sure why so many seem to defend Disney star wars with........but what about Lucas, he did..... Who cares what George did, he took his lumps for stupid decisions and decided to sell to Disney. Disney owns it now. They had every opportunity to not make the same mistakes as Lucas. They just decided to run in blind, it had nothing to do with George.

It's not a defense per se, it's just pointing out that "Disney left money on the table by not releasing more movies" is a simplistic way of looking at it.

Letting demand build up resulted in at least two movies that likely made waaay more than they would have if Star Wars product had been produced regularly.

Maybe Lucas makes more money with a more aggressive release schedule. Maybe he doesn't because people are more discerning when the next movie is a year away, instead of three.

With the Disney launch we had four movies in a three year period. Would they have made more money on a per film basis with more time between movies? Would that work out to more or less per year on average?

It's too hypothetical to really argue one way or the other.

We'll see if the next movie hits bigger again, but even then you have to consider the TV shows factor in terms of audience fatigue.

 

[Disney Irish]

The decision was made last summer. Disney don’t want to embarrass a producer with a 45 year track record so the announcement will be made sometime after Andor debuts on Disney+ so that she’ll go out on a high note.

The decision to make The Mandalorian movie was made by Jon Favreau and Bob Iger. Kennedy wasn’t involved. Look for Filoni to share duties with Lynwen Brennan who was recently promoted to president of Lucasfilm Business.

Wasn't Brennan's promotion like awhile ago, like years ago at this point?

I wouldn't be opposed to her being the business head and Filoni being the creative head. I always thought that is the way Disney should run many of their divisions, especially on the Studios side.

 

[erasure fan1]

It's not a defense per se, it's just pointing out that "Disney left money on the table by not releasing more movies" is a simplistic way of looking at it.

It's come up a lot over the time Disney has owned star wars. It's not so much a defense for, Disney but more of a deflection. All I'm saying is it's really not relevant what Lucas did. Disney has had every opportunity to avoid the pitfalls Lucas fell into. So it's really all on Disney.

As far as the money being left on the table. That's mostly about the merchandising, not the amount of movies they released. That's the the argument that was made. With Disneys handling of the brand, they've cost themselves a lot of money in non box office related income.

Letting demand build up resulted in at least two movies that likely made waaay more than they would have if Star Wars product had been produced regularly.

Yea, you had huge stretches of no real star wars on the big screen. That demand was a huge factor in the results of the two movies.

With the Disney launch we had four movies in a three year period. Would they have made more money on a per film basis with more time between movies?

Not with what they released. The problem wasn't quantity, it was quality. Now maybe more time gives the ability to adjust better or spend more time working the story. Even then, the mistake was rushing it to market. Personally I don't think having at least a movie a year would be bad, if the quality is there of course, i.e. the mcu.

So I have to agree with @Sirwalterraleigh that they've left a ton of money on the table. Is it billions? Maybe, maybe not. But I do believe it's a sizable number. From video games, to toys and collectables, home video.... You can see it everywhere anytime something new that's star wars releases. The only thing that hit for merchandise was mando and grogu.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Star Wars doesn’t make its money off the box office

It’s a phenomenon due to licensing. That’s its entire history.

That’s where Disney has hurt itself. They lose money every minute after they release bad product because it doesn’t compel more ancillary sales.

This is obvious for Star Wars…and Disney for that matter…

That may be the most simplistic take ever

Box office is nothing

They got $2 bill in BO on the farce awakens…and they’ve lost on it

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I wouldn't be opposed to her being the business head and Filoni being the creative head. I always thought that is the way Disney should run many of their divisions, especially on the Studios side.

Nobody here is opposed to this…

The longterm argument on Kennedy dates to when we “old guard” said that they were making mistakes/in trouble in 2018…and were scoffed at because of box office charts…by some

Well here we still are…110% correct going on a decade later…and those types have mostly gone away.

We knew…frankly

types did not. They got lost In Disney hype and it didn’t make a dent

 

[Disney Irish]

Nobody here is opposed to this…

The longterm argument on Kennedy dates to when we “old guard” said that they were making mistakes/in trouble in 2018…and were scoffed at because of box office charts…by some

Well here we still are…110% correct going on a decade later…and those types have mostly gone away.

We knew…frankly

types did not. They got lost In Disney hype and it didn’t make a dent

I don't think anyone here, even @MisterPenguin, was opposed to having a dual creative head to work alongside Kennedy, even back in 2018. What was scoffed at was the constant calls for her to be fired at the time, or the scam rumors that her firing was imminent, which never came.

Now in 2024, all that is being said is let her finish out her contract, hand over the reigns, and retire. Which if rumors are true will happen in short order, by the end of the year or shortly after (right around Celebration).

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don't think anyone here, even @MisterPenguin, was opposed to having a dual creative head to work alongside Kennedy, even back in 2018. What was scoffed at was the constant calls for her to be fired at the time, or the scam rumors that her firing was imminent, which never came.

Now in 2024, all that is being said is let her finish out her contract, hand over the reigns, and retire. Which if rumors are true will happen in short order, by the end of the year or shortly after (right around Celebration).

I wasn't even opposed to KK being fired.

I was opposed to the character assassination and the blatantly false 'rumors' of her imminent firing and how certain people ate that up without engaging one cranial neuron.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Anyone buy much of the Ewoks Adventures merch?

Because I was exactly the age that would have been interested in such at the time of its release, I'm pretty sure there was little to no tie-in merchandise for what were essentially one-off TV movies.

But everyone wanted the ewok Kenner toys associated with Return of the Jedi.

 

[Disney Irish]

Because I was exactly the age that would have been interested in such at the time of its release, I'm pretty sure there was little to no tie-in merchandise for what were essentially one-off TV movies.

But everyone wanted the ewok Kenner toys associated with Return of the Jedi.

I was being sarcastic, but I vaguely remember they had some plushies and a few figurines. They even had some for the Ewoks cartoon, which didn't sell much from what I remember either.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I wasn't even opposed to KK being fired.

I was opposed to the character assassination and the blatantly false 'rumors' of her imminent firing and how certain people ate that up without engaging one cranial neuron.

Those rumors didnt originate from here

They were the geek webdom…same low grade clowns that try to profit off content in lieu of a purpose in life - a la Tim trakker - that broadcast that.

Some brought it into the discussions here.

They were wrong to do so.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because I was exactly the age that would have been interested in such at the time of its release, I'm pretty sure there was little to no tie-in merchandise for what were essentially one-off TV movies.

But everyone wanted the ewok Kenner toys associated with Return of the Jedi.

I was being sarcastic, but I vaguely remember they had some plushies and a few figurines. They even had some for the Ewoks cartoon, which didn't sell much from what I remember either.

The Kenner ewok toys from ROJ sold…they had gliders and catapults and stuff. The village was really cool. The Lego version of that will get you a lot of cash now too…

Not so much the cartoon shows…which were just a bad idea from a tired LFL at the time.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I was being sarcastic, but I vaguely remember they had some plushies and a few figurines. They even had some for the Ewoks cartoon, which didn't sell much from what I remember either.

That stuff was specifically tied-into the Return of the Jedi release.

Source: My younger brother and I had all those toys.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That stuff was specifically tied-into the Return of the Jedi release.

Source: My younger brother and I had all those toys.

There were very brief offshoots from Kenner for the ewok and droid cartoons shows…but those didn’t get much traction


There’s a huge revisionist history about return of the Jedi that has grown over the years. It certainly wasn’t scoffed at when it was released. It was - in fact - the biggest movie ever at that time. Fans loved it…it sold product like gangbusters

For some reason…it had become a whipping boy in the years since. Revisionist. It felt like that was driven by the prequel era/fans that needed to make themselves feel better. Just my opinion.

 

[erasure fan1]

What was scoffed at was the constant calls for her to be fired at the time,

Well she did deserve to be fired in my opinion. I'm not sure why that's a scoff-able thing to say. I know I said as well, that I would support her on the business side of things as long as she had no creative control. The two could report to the head of studios or Iger. But they let her stay in position way to long just furthering the resentment for how she handled the brand. So after a certain point, the fans were never going to support her.