SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[Disney Irish]

You want to call Stanford and explain it to them? I bet there’s a paper to come out of that wisdom, yoda

I don't need to, you're the one making the claim of loss potential in the Billions not me. The burden of proof is on you, and no your college buddies from Lego don't count.

So produce the evidence or drop it as its not something you can actually prove.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't need to, you're the one making the claim of loss potential in the Billions not me. The burden of proof is on you, and no your college buddies from Lego don't count.

So produce the evidence or drop it as its not something you can actually prove.

…so you’re appealing to ignorance?

 

[Disney Irish]

…so you’re appealing to ignorance?

Nope, I'm asking you to show your homework. You make all these unsubstantiated claims and now I'm calling you out on it to prove it.

So prove to me with actual proof that Disney has indeed lost Billions in potential earnings on SW. And just like in math class in grade school remember to show your work how you came up with the answer. Because I'm fairly certain you got no way to prove any claim you've made.

 

[easyrowrdw]

Well it wasn't a requel which is what we got. A google search will come up with lots of stuff including Darth Maul's return.

I hadn't heard that. I did some more googling and saw what you were referring to. It's interesting that different sites seem to have different stories about what Lucas planned. All of them seem to say it was more rough outlines (not scripts) though. I wonder if it changed over time. Anyway, thanks for the info!

Just as when Disney told the original screenwriter of ep 7 “you can’t have Luke Skywalker…he’ll steal the whole movie!”

This stuff is actually too stupid to make up

That it is one thing that I saw consistently. Disney pushed a lot of Lucas's ideas (particularly Luke) from 7 to 8. I guess they wanted to focus more on Han and do one original character per movie kind of thing. Of course, that came at the expense of the original group and their dynamics

 

[Disney Irish]

All of them seem to say it was more rough outlines (not scripts) though.

It was basically a treatment which George handed over to Disney, which is a rough summary of the basic ideas for the film(s). Its not a full screenplay, or even a spec script.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I hadn't heard that. I did some more googling and saw what you were referring to. It's interesting that different sites seem to have different stories about what Lucas planned. All of them seem to say it was more rough outlines (not scripts) though. I wonder if it changed over time. Anyway, thanks for the info!

If you believe anyone who worked for George…”planning” didn’t seem to be on his radar

That it is one thing that I saw consistently. Disney pushed a lot of Lucas's ideas (particularly Luke) from 7 to 8. I guess they wanted to focus more on Han and do one original character per movie kind of thing. Of course, that came at the expense of the original group and their dynamics

I interpreted it differently…but we still end up in the same place

 

[Phroobar]

I hadn't heard that. I did some more googling and saw what you were referring to. It's interesting that different sites seem to have different stories about what Lucas planned. All of them seem to say it was more rough outlines (not scripts) though. I wonder if it changed over time. Anyway, thanks for the info!

That it is one thing that I saw consistently. Disney pushed a lot of Lucas's ideas (particularly Luke) from 7 to 8. I guess they wanted to focus more on Han and do one original character per movie kind of thing. Of course, that came at the expense of the original group and their dynamics

Just like now, Disney had no vision or over arcing plans for Star Wars. They are throwing things at the wall hoping it sticks and they will milk that thing to death. See Baby Yoda.

Disney thought making a Star Wars movie is easy. They found they where gravely mistaken. It is an extremely difficult thing to do.

 

[easyrowrdw]

Just like now, Disney had no vision or over arcing plans for Star Wars. They are throwing things at the wall hoping it sticks and they will milk that thing to death. See Baby Yoda.

Disney thought making a Star Wars movie is easy. They found they where gravely mistaken. It is an extremely difficult thing to do.

Yeah, that's the feeling I've gotten from their shows. They've at least been successful when it comes to movies (box office and/or critically). Of course they haven't made a movie in 5 years sooo... I guess we'll see what happens whenever they finally release another movie.

 

[Tha Realest]

Nope, I'm asking you to show your homework. You make all these unsubstantiated claims and now I'm calling you out on it to prove it.

So prove to me with actual proof that Disney has indeed lost Billions in potential earnings on SW. And just like in math class in grade school remember to show your work how you came up with the answer. Because I'm fairly certain you got no way to prove any claim you've made.

At the time of its acquisition the Star Wars franchise was the most profitable movie franchise of all time. Each film, pre-Disney, made untold hundreds of millions in profit.

Disney has had some successes with Star Wars. The Force Awakens was an unquestionable success, and did well for a time moving merchandise. While the two films in that series that followed also made money, they did not share in the merchandise success of the first film. That carries on to today.

Rogue One was great, made a ton of money, but also cost a lot of money. It was a reconfigured risk that worked out in the end. Not sure there’s been a tremendous merch boom from that film.

Solo is an incredibly costly mess. It also didn’t cause a blip merchandising wise.

As far as D+ goes, the Mandalorian is an unquestionable success, both from a viewership and merchandising standpoint. Boba Fett and Ashoka haven’t done as well, and do not get the sense they are moving merch in any meaningful way. Did Obi Wan, Acolyte, and Andor have any meaningful tie in merchandise?

It may seem odd to mention merch here but that has historically been just as successful, if not more so, than the films have been (financially speaking). Put another way, it seems Disney’s been successful merchandising The Force Awakens, The Mandalorian, and the legacy films.

As far as proving the untapped and unrealized billions, that’s very speculative. What is not is that the company inherited what had been, at the time, the most wildly successful movie franchise of all time and has tactically retreated from theatrical releases. It’s like it’s afraid of movie theaters.

 

[Disney Irish]

At the time of its acquisition the Star Wars franchise was the most profitable movie franchise of all time. Each film, pre-Disney, made untold hundreds of millions in profit.

Disney has had some successes with Star Wars. The Force Awakens was an unquestionable success, and did well for a time moving merchandise. While the two films in that series that followed also made money, they did not share in the merchandise success of the first film. That carries on to today.

Rogue One was great, made a ton of money, but also cost a lot of money. It was a reconfigured risk that worked out in the end. Not sure there’s been a tremendous merch boom from that film.

Solo is an incredibly costly mess. It also didn’t cause a blip merchandising wise.

As far as D+ goes, the Mandalorian is an unquestionable success, both from a viewership and merchandising standpoint. Boba Fett and Ashoka haven’t done as well, and do not get the sense they are moving merch in any meaningful way. Did Obi Wan, Acolyte, and Andor have any meaningful tie in merchandise?

Not to be snarky, but thank you for summarizing what we already know.

It may seem odd to mention merch here but that has historically been just as successful, if not more so, than the films have been (financially speaking). Put another way, it seems Disney’s been successful merchandising The Force Awakens, The Mandalorian, and the legacy films.

On this I agree. Disney has been successfully merchandising the PT/OT/ST and Mando. The others not so much, and on this I'm fine as not everything was a success under prior ownership either. Anyone buy much of the Ewoks Adventures merch?

As far as proving the untapped and unrealized billions, that’s very speculative.

This is my point. Except we have a poster who trots it out every time there is discussion on Disney Star Wars. Its why I'm finally asking them to prove it, as he makes claims on it as if its a foregone conclusion of the actual amount lost by Disney on that unrealized money. To which I'm calling BS, as its something that can't be known in an actual tangible sense. Nor can it actually be calculated. Notice there has been crickets since I asked them to prove it.

What is not is that the company inherited what had been, at the time, the most wildly successful movie franchise of all time and has tactically retreated from theatrical releases. It’s like it’s afraid of movie theaters.

None of which was discussed during the exchange, to which I'll say I agree with you. Will the break from theatrical make a difference with the next movie, lets hope so.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Nope, I'm asking you to show your homework. You make all these unsubstantiated claims and now I'm calling you out on it to prove it.

So prove to me with actual proof that Disney has indeed lost Billions in potential earnings on SW. And just like in math class in grade school remember to show your work how you came up with the answer. Because I'm fairly certain you got no way to prove any claim you've made.

“Appealing to ignorance” is a category of debate fallacy. In This case…it encompasses “you can’t prove it’s guaranteed…so therefore you can’t make a premise”

Wrong…not even a hard one to diffuse.

They teach those at Traditions…and Berkeley…so you should have caught that.

 

[Disney Irish]

“Appealing to ignorance” is a category of debate fallacy. In This case…it encompasses “you can’t prove it’s be guaranteed…so therefore you can’t make a premise”

Wrong…not even a hard one to diffuse.

They teach those at Traditions…and Berkeley…so you should have caught that.

Thank you for educating me on something I already knew, and completely disagree with in this instance as you weren't arguing in good faith to begin with.

So I'm still holding your feet to the fire here. You make claims, and I'm asking you to prove those claims. Its easy to say you don't know, or can't prove your claim, or that you're spouting BS to try and prove a point. But I don't think you will because it goes against your narrative.

So here I'll make it easier on you, and even giving you an out.....

I'll concede that Disney has most likely lost some money in potential sales on SW (not that I ever said they didn't but beside the point), I don't know the amount but believe its not close to your claim that its Billions. Please provide any data to back it up to educate me on the reality since you believe I'm not educated on the subject. I'm willing to learn from you. If you can't that is fine just say so and we'll just walk away from this.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

As far as proving the untapped and unrealized billions, that’s very speculative. What is not is that the company inherited what had been, at the time, the most wildly successful movie franchise of all time and has tactically retreated from theatrical releases. It’s like it’s afraid of movie theaters.

We also have to consider the amount of time Star Wars was basically dormant under Lucas. Pent up demand is a big reason Phantom Menace and Force Awakens hit like they did.

Now that Star Wars content is being released frequently, it's unrealistic to expect those extreme highs.

Lucas released 3 prequels over 9 years. Disney released 5 movies over 6 years I believe. I wonder what the average revenue per year was during each of those periods? One could argue Lucas left a lot money on the table as well, but Disney is the one being criticized for a hypothetical loss of revenue.

 

[flynnibus]

Lucas released 3 prequels over 9 years. Disney released 5 movies over 6 years I believe. I wonder what the average revenue per year was during each of those periods? One could argue Lucas left a lot money on the table as well, but Disney is the one being criticized for a hypothetical loss of revenue.

Here is one interpretation of that very question

Star Wars: profit/loss of new movies 2024 | Statista

"The Force Awakens", the first "Star Wars" movie released since the acquisition of Lucasfilm in 2012, remains the most profitable production out of the sequel trilogy and other spin-offs.

www.statista.com

But I don't think you can take their 'profit' analysis with much weight since it's just comparing box office revenue - which isn't all the studio's.

Then add in the D+ live action budgets - which don't drive direct viewing dollars each - but have feature film sized budgets..
Mandolarian - 295mil (80+90+120)
Book of Bobba Fett - 105mil
Obi-Wan - 90mil
Andor - 135mil
Ahsoka - 100mil
Acolyte - 180mil
(various sources)

Adding those up.. that's about 905mil. Arguably that could be about the total profit of the 5 Live Action films...

But we know the ROI calculation isn't that simple... but it is interesting to look at the orders of magnitude involved. For all intents, each D+ show is the size of a feature film... without box office revenue to directly float it's production cost. There are a lot of non-star wars people subsidizing those shows