LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Can you offer any examples to back up this very sweeping and extreme assertion?
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
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You know we are in the Splash Mountain thread right?
One of the greatest themed attractions in the history of the world.
Did you just ask for an example?
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Given that the retheme hasn’t even happened yet, I don’t think it can be offered as a valid example.
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LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I dislike this mural intensely, as I made clear in the Jungle Cruise thread. The problem here isn’t inclusivity, however, but design. The aesthetic is all wrong, regardless of the characters depicted in the poster.
You are saying the same thing. Inclusiveness happened. Good design did not. It was uncalled to remove good design for bad design. So one got budget and attention. The other did not. Therefore, it was a mural that did not feature anything that lacked inclusiveness and made a bad design out of it. The two should not be mutually exclusive, but the old mural did not need to change, and it did in the name of inclusiveness with no care to design.
You asked for a example. You got one.
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LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
No, I didn’t get one. There are plenty of recent examples of bad design at WDW that have nothing to do with inclusivity. The new crêperie in the France pavilion, the badly written Arabic in the Morocco pavilion, parts of the new entrance at the Polynesian, and the Harmonious barges are just some that spring to mind.
Correlation isn’t causation. That the new Jungle Cruise mural seeks to be more inclusive is not the reason it looks bad.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
I'd also argue that inclusive design doesn't cost more than design that isn't inclusive. (As was insinuated in another comment.)
That terrible mural replaced the well designed and non offensive mural in the queue. That is not just correlation. That is why that would be a reasonable "valid" example.
There are plenty of bad designs going on without the rushed inclusiveness ones, but the rush to be inclusive are some of the worst offenders.
I also find it funny that all of your examples, except for creperie, were creative moves that were pushed forward with the idea of(more marketable in the name of) culturing or not wanting to offend. So you gave your own additional examples where the powers that be thought they were going to incorporate more but failed. Of course it could be done right, but there are examples abundant where there is not a care to.
Also, a bonus one: Pirates don't steal from a town to organize an auction of the stolen items. They would just steal them. Another show quality downgrade.
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It does when making something new for the sake of adding inclusivity costs additional money. Reimaginings. POTC, Jungle Cruise, Splash Mountain, Haunted Mansion (too soon?) etc.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
You're seriously going to maintain that the entrance to the Polynesian (to pick just one of my examples) was rebuilt in the name of inclusivity?
It seems to me that you're stretching the concept well beyond what it can reasonably accommodate simply because it offers a convenient scapegoat. The common denominator here is bad design, nothing else.
There was a list there that mentioned earlier in there with the idea in mind or as more marketable. Should the Polynesian culture not be a consideration in the design? The company pays a team at an executive level to oversee this aspect of design on major projects. I am not arguing against the idea of inclusiveness. If you hire an agenda team and pay them and promote them to the public...then your Polynesian themed hotel design should go over well and be...more Polynesian inspired than what was before it right? Or does inclusiveness only matter when they can squeeze it in as a selling point?
(such as the idea of Splash Mountain, which about a year and a half since announcement but no physical work on the operating attraction, they are still patting themselves on the back for)
You were asked for examples and do not like them, and then your counter arguments turn to passive insults/avoiding the evidence that those provided to you.
The new Jungle Cruise Mural is a bad design. It has no reason to exist other than the more inclusion even in the queue that never had a single race depicted on on the old one. That terrible mural replaced a well painted one there was no reason it could not have at least go elsewhere in the same queue. It would have still been a bad design, but it would not have been ruining a really good one that had no reason to be removed.
That is evidence to your request. The idea of inclusiveness will not ruin aspects of the parks. The way Disney is doing it so far can. This and other less than previous track record moves in the current climate portfolio are the reason people don't put any easy hopes or thoughts that the Splash Mountain removal will have a worthy replacement.
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LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
But this is purely made up. The remodelled entrance at the Polynesian has nothing to do with an inclusivity agenda, nor has it resulted in the resort looking “more Polynesian than what was before it”; on the contrary, wood textures have been replaced by metal and concrete.
Dear Prudence
Well-Known Member
An update on this: it's not even a mural, as previously reported. It's a piece of art in one of the galleries in Disney Springs, which is a moderate size, which is why some of us (myself included) misremembered it as a mural. Regardless of this fact, it was supposed to be for characters pre-dating 2000; replacing the Brer with Tiana relegates her to the bottom of the painting, away from the other princess, and not surrounded by other human characters. There are other characters from the time frame they could have chosen instead of giving Tiana the position of a sloppy tacked-on afterthought. Or, better yet, just give her her own beautiful pieces.
Exactly. The first sentence of this post sums up the issue with the executive level. Shouldn't it though?
And read it again and see that the same goes for all of the current changes that could deal with culture representation, but instead every choice whether in the name of has taken away the quality standards. If not it is a we are planning this enough to brag on it before we do it.
If Disney is only going to be more inclusive when they are pushing it publicly at events and blogs...
It was announced as a key of the company. So we should expect to have it not only count randomly?
The evidence remains. jungle Cruise's show quality was diminished because the sign that put inclusiveness in the queue was more important than the excellently designed mural that was there.
Most seem to feel the pirate auction scene is muddled and things like the artwork on the previous page at Disney Springs lost it's purpose of being the timeline of characters.
You do not have to agree of course, but supporting evidence has been provided with that poster's claim.
TomboyJanet
Well-Known Member
You may be surprised to find that I am not in favor of this retheme despite being politically left. 1. If these stories are indeed oral traditional stories told by enslaved African people, You are indeed snuffing them out with a very European origin story despite the racial swap of characters. I always saw Song of the South as misinterpreted. Yes It was about a sharecropper (not a slave) telling stories to rich white kids, but he was a good guy, Like It's not like they portrayed him as being stupid or ignorant. He was the one telling the fables with the morals. I think a lot of people who criticize it have not seen it, and I've seen it three times and still can't figure out why it's blown up to be this big huge scary thing. This is a piece of African American History, collected by Harris and thus allowing it to survive, regaurdless of who he really was (I don't know a lot about his actual character personally) Why would you want to bury it all?
And I can just see this retheme be another Ride with drops that has no conflict. If a ride has drops......It means there's danger!!! Go with it!!! It's not dancing around the snow!!! FROZEN EVER AFTER I'm looking at you!!
And I can just see this retheme be another Ride with drops that has no conflict. If a ride has drops......It means there's danger!!! Go with it!!! It's not dancing around the snow!!! FROZEN EVER AFTER I'm looking at you!!
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Viewers back in 1946 recognised the issues with the film, which centre on its romanticised depiction of plantation life.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this update. Do you have an image of the whole thing to share?
Dear Prudence
Well-Known Member
I saved a screen cap from someone's Instagram stories this morning, but cropped out their name for their privacy.
here we go:
Also, the sword and the stone characters are there now (unsure if they were before, but at least it means Tiana isn't completely isolated from other human characters, and Toad was moved instead of being replaced.
did you see itViewers back in 1946 recognised the issues with the film, which centre on its romanticised depiction of plantation life.
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