News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[celluloid]

It's another example of something people weren't that hot on the idea of, and it far exceeded anyone's expectations. But this was also made in a different era of Disney (Even if it wasn't that long ago). The bioluminescence found throughout AK's Pandora is stunning. I don't think there's anything wrong with being skeptical about the Splash retheme, either, especially since they are hit or miss with their E tickets, and have repeatedly demonstrated that they don't care about maintenance on any of these attractions.

Exactly. There are ways to knock something out of the park and have it succeed on its own accord. Splash Mountain was that in the first place after all. Those in creative control did that well with Avatar.

The discussion is based on as you said, what was made in a different era. Approved 2011 and things have changed a lot in the decade plus. People and management styles. That is the reasonable concern. This is not the 90s, or even the 2000s. This is a retheme, not a brand new E ticket.

 

[_caleb]

I think the Splash Mountain issue (and Jungle Cruise, etc.) will result in Disney being much more careful (and not always in good ways) about the theme/story/content upon which it bases attractions.

My hope with the Splash-->PatF redesign is that they will lean into the storyshowing (vs. book report or "you're participating but then something goes terribly wrong") that Splash did so well.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Exactly. There are ways to knock something out of the park and have it succeed on its own accord. Splash Mountain was that in the first place after all. Those in creative control did that well with Avatar.

The discussion is based on as you said, what was made in a different era. Approved 2011 and things have changed a lot in the decade plus. People and management styles. That is the reasonable concern. This is not the 90s, or even the 2000s. This is a retheme, not a brand new E ticket.

Again, I think it's important to remember that I think MOST people want this retheme to go well, and know it's going to need a lot more than they're willing to put into it. They are clearly floundering with this. Part of that makes sense, because the DL and the WDW Splash Mountains are two very different attractions, with different layouts, different uses of space, different soundtracks. They need to create something that will fit into both spaces (which was easier to navigate for the Jungle Cruise changes). I think Disney has been caught not knowing what they're doing in this case.

If you'll excuse this analogy, you can be an opera singer and not read sheet music, and you can get away with it for so long, but eventually, you're going to get caught. (Pavarotti didn't read sheet music, but he also didn't have to audition. ) Part of this is because in opera, a lot of the leg work has been done for you. Most of the time, you're dealing with a piece that has existed for hundreds of years, and you're not learning anything new (Mozart is Mozart). Your hair/wig and make-up are done for you, they call your cues, etc. Your job is to show up the first day knowing all of your material, because a lot of the time, your first sing-through it with the full orchestra. However, you're eventually going to be caught not being able to read sheet music. I think that's where Disney is now: they have all of the elements, and they've sort of Candide-ed their way through the Snow White refresh (which was so good, oh my gosh) and ROTS which had no real plot to go from and was made from scratch, to something they're actually going to have to put time and effort into. And, they need to.

 

[celluloid]

Again, I think it's important to remember that I think MOST people want this retheme to go well, and know it's going to need a lot more than they're willing to put into it. They are clearly floundering with this. Part of that makes sense, because the DL and the WDW Splash Mountains are two very different attractions, with different layouts, different uses of space, different soundtracks. They need to create something that will fit into both spaces (which was easier to navigate for the Jungle Cruise changes). I think Disney has been caught not knowing what they're doing in this case.

Yeah. I don't think the problem is people not wanting it to go well. Because if it is done done better than Splash then we are just stuck with another over inflated budget attraction. I think what is being common is the fact that the trust of the brand has diminished with overlays.

For those referencing RoTR. The research and development of that all came from what Scott Trowbridge brought with him. That was mostly the original pitch for Superman attraction that eventually became Spiderman when Marvel at IOA was planned to be DC.
That saved a lot of time. But all that aside, that was not an overlay, that was a ground up E ticket based on a property they spent a lot on.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I think the Splash Mountain issue (and Jungle Cruise, etc.) will result in Disney being much more careful (and not always in good ways) about the theme/story/content upon which it bases attractions.

My hope with the Splash-->PatF redesign is that they will lean into the storyshowing (vs. book report or "you're participating but then something goes terribly wrong") that Splash did so well.

One of the other things about the Jungle Cruise is that [the grotesque depictions of] Africans didn't even get added until a decade or almost a decade into the attraction's existence for the Disneyland incarnation. They were added wayyyyy later, and after a lot of the social justice movements of the 1950's and 60's. Meaning, these were added way, WAY after when these could have been "excused." I was actually pretty shocked that this went on check for so long.

 

[celluloid]

One of the other things about the Jungle Cruise is that [the grotesque depictions of] Africans didn't even get added until a decade or almost a decade into the attraction's existence for the Disneyland incarnation. They were added wayyyyy later, and after a lot of the social justice movements of the 1950's and 60's. Meaning, these were added way, WAY after when these could have been "excused." I was actually pretty shocked that this went on check for so long.

Let's not move this thread's conversation into that territory again. Not for this thread.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

One of the other things about the Jungle Cruise is that [the grotesque depictions of] Africans didn't even get added until a decade or almost a decade into the attraction's existence for the Disneyland incarnation.

There were figures of natives in the original ride.

You can see them making the molds in the Disneyland TV episode "The Pre-Opening Report" on Disney+

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Again, I think it's important to remember that I think MOST people want this retheme to go well, and know it's going to need a lot more than they're willing to put into it. They are clearly floundering with this. Part of that makes sense, because the DL and the WDW Splash Mountains are two very different attractions, with different layouts, different uses of space, different soundtracks.

They can't even be bothered to have different Jungle Cruise queue loops now.

I would be extremely surprised if they recorded unique soundtracks for each ride, especially since the music of PatF is so specific.

 

[Dear Prudence]

There were figures of natives in the original ride.

You can see them making the molds in the Disneyland TV episode "The Pre-Opening Report" on Disney+

Oh okay, I think Trader Sam was the one added later! Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Oh okay, I think Trader Sam was the one added later! Thanks for the clarification!

Like others scenes the ride, it went through a few changes over the years.

Staging, molds, set pieces were eventually revised into what we saw prior to 2021.

I'm not sure of when Trader Sam specifically was added. Probably in the 60s.

 

[Kamikaze]

I have never felt the need to do it again

Again, and? Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean literally anything.

 

[JoeCamel]

Again, and? Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean literally anything.

Again I said it was my thinking and my opinion. I can't think differently than you?

 

[Kamikaze]

Again I said it was my thinking and my opinion. I can't think differently than you?

You literally never said any of that.

I replied to your message saying that Disney had never done a successful retheme.

 

[celluloid]

You literally never said any of that.

I replied to your message saying that Disney had never done a successful retheme.

I understand what you mean.

I think it is safe to presume when someone posts something on a discussion board without a source or pertaining to a researched fact it is in their opinion. There are different definitions of success. If you are after defining it as profitable, sure. So was Stitch's Great Escape. And after all that is what the company as a whole cares about, but to think Frozen knocks it out of the park artistically in 2014 replacing a ride designed in the 1980s with modern design know how/budgets based on knowing what a hit that film already was is not going to be the case for most in the industry. The quasi rushed book report feeling that the new story has, and the pace of the ride that is off with the backwards portion and kinetic energy, from the outside interacting with the ride taken away and reduced efficiency. It was a retheme based on the most popular animated release in decades. No one is going to argue the commercial success because it was revolving around the number one family movie, featuring the number one song within the most visited resort on earth.

The same goes for the Splash project. Only a person unfamiliar with pushes would think it is not going to be profitable on some spreadsheet or popularity level when it is new and selling merch. But I think it should be clear that was not the discussion that was going on here.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

For those worried about Disney's Imagineers and staffing in the current market, I actually think a refurbishment vs new build might give them more hope for a successful project. While refurbishments can actually on a per item basis be more expensive b/c you are limited in building options to meet certain existing structural components, that limitation can actually be a benefit, as it focuses design. The designers are not going to be asked to build the best new ride that that possibly could, they are going to be asked to redesign the best ride that they can, within the Splash Mountain footprint. While giving less structural options, it gives them a defined framework to build/work with. My hope is that taking the successful framework they have, they can design into it another great ride.

 

[celluloid]

I am curious how long they are willing to close it. I think with the current track record of things taking a long while, that is going to be a good tell of how much is going into the project.

 

[Stupido]

I am curious how long they are willing to close it. I think with the current track record of things taking a long while, that is going to be a good tell of how much is going into the project.

The common belief is that they're currently prefabricating all of the elements for both Splash Mountains offsite, so that the transition will be a lot quicker once they decide to close it.

 

[UNCgolf]

The common belief is that they're currently prefabricating all of the elements for both Splash Mountains offsite, so that the transition will be a lot quicker once they decide to close it.

If that's the case, it would likely mean the WDW version will be worse than the DL version because I'm sure they're designing everything with the DL version in mind, and they are not the same ride.

 

[celluloid]

The common belief is that they're currently prefabricating all of the elements for both Splash Mountains offsite, so that the transition will be a lot quicker once they decide to close it.

That is typically done no matter what with an overlay/retheme, so it is not really anything new. Maelstrom to Frozen was still approx. two years on a smaller scale.

 

[DisneyDodo]

I don’t know how well the retheme will go, but if they execute well, this will be one of the best rides in the world.

The problem is that it’s already one of the best rides in the world. Disney is devoting a significant amount of money to a change that, even in the best case, is unlikely to improve the overall park experience for the vast majority of guests. At the same time, they’ve canceled projects that actually could have meaningfully improved the parks. And if not those projects, there are countless other better ways they could have spent this money.