You Hate Everything About It, Yet You Still Go

[Jimmy Thick]

The numbers don't lie. As long as the parks are full TDO is still making money. I was there on a Saturday night the last weekend in September. It was packed with people. I couldn't believe the parks were that full in September. It's about supply and demand. The cost is going up because the people keep going. I fully understand what your saying. I'm just not 100% sure their DEMO is families with young children. there are 23 resorts on Disney property, 5 of them are geared towards kids. That's less than 25% of the resorts they have. Yes, the MK is totally geared towards kids, but take a look at the other 3 parks and you would be hard pressed to come up with the same opinion. I'm not saying that Walt had that in mind from the beginning. However, business must go where the money is. I would rather have WDW the way it is today, than no WDW because it went bankrupt.

The parks are still full because the same people who say they hate the parks, don't have a good time because of management worried about bonuses and don't spend money, continue to go to the parks.

* Chuckles *

If people actually read the things they write/say, the world would be a better place. Or in the very least, it wouldn't sell as much constipation remedies.


Jimmy Thick- " Oh I made a list of whats broken at WDW, I hate it, but Iam going back in June...

 

[Jimmy Thick]

I hate everything about it,yet I still go because my teeth get plaque build-up over time. Wait, are we not talking about going to the dentist?

People need to see a dentist for health reasons.

People don't need to go to Disney World, they choose to go based upon their own free will.

Jimmy Thick- And spend a fortune doing so.

 

[LapsedWDWFan]

As a long time lurker on this board, this seemed like a good topic to finally make my first post on. Getting back to the original poster's question...
To understand the point of view I am coming from, I have been making annual trips to Disney since 1982. Yes, I know alot of people who speak of the "good 'ol days", but let me try to explain what it was like, at least for me. What Disney seemed to be all about was escapism and immersion. Everything was done, down to the smallest detail, to make your senses believe you were in whatever world they wanted to put you in. You would walk through Adventureland and everything blended so perfectly that you actually FELT like you were seamlessly traveling from Colonial Africa, to the South Seas to the Spanish Main for example. They even used to advertise this fact in their pictorial souveniers with some sense of pride. The point is, you could go to this place and be able to experience what it felt like to be in polynesia, decend to the depths of the ocean, be in the old west just to name a few. That was the lure of Disney. That's what made it special. It was all around you, all of the time, and it was a quite powerful thing to experience.
Though in the last 10 years or so, that changed. They just didn't build anything like that anymore. There are exceptions but, by and large, new offerings didn't offer that same level of immersion. In some cases, "additions" or "improvements" actually took away from the immersive elements that were already in place. Other things it is just so obvious it was done cheap and half-assed, and that's something the never used to do. I could go into more specifics but I think you get the gist.
Anyway, as a result, you walk through the parks and you just don't "feel it" quite as much any more. In the end, it's tough to think that, unless something changes, you will never feel that sense of immersion again. It was such a powerful thing that you actually feel a sense of personal loss. I can see why some would lash out. It does sometimes feel like something special was taken away from you through no fault of your own. Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want of for things to be stagnant. I would just like them to get back to what made them great. Build things with the total immersion idea in mind.
As far as going again, a have a trip coming up which will be my first since 2008. I am hopeful that maybe I'll see things through new eyes.

 

[Seabasealpha1]

(stepping AROUND the Rockem' Sockem' Robots in discussion)

Well,

I guess for me, I have a definite love for the place and for (most) everything Disney...

I guess what gets my goat and why I complain on occasion is that they (sometimes) don't live up to a certain standard that I feel (personally) that Walt set. I am often annoyed at how they let the dollar overtake quality. I DO understand that when it all comes down to it, it is a business. And as Milton Friedman once said "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits..."

That's all good and well...and I suppose over the long term it does benefit the parks and then by extension me...

However, I look back on the past and into my vast collection of books, movies, magazines, and stories from Disney park history and I see so much good that had been done and I see so much charm and trial and error. Now-a-days, that charm seems to be dwindling in favor of pushing the latest crap down our throats on occasion. The latest trend in Florida is totally based upon sales sales sales, and cheap cheap cheap on ride maintenance...

Walt often said that "quality will out" and he had a philosophy by which you did NOT shortchange the guests of anything in quality of the rides and shows. To Walt, everything you do in the theme parks, was no different than paying admission and going to see one of his movies. If you went to see one of his films, the whole darn thing was there. The whole reel. They didn't cut this out, or remove this scene, or alter this scene to crappier dialogue, if the projector burnt through the film...new film was ready to go to replace it and the whole idea was that you got more than what you paid for and that you left both happy and filled with good memories. Walt could easily fill our heads with dreams and still turn a profit. The Disney mark means a type of quality and assurance that you cannot find anywhere else. It is surely more than just Mickey Mouse. It is something that comes laden with heavy expectation...

Now, suppose we had never known any different? Suppose Walt was a tight-wad and the rides always sucked and everything was done half-wazooed...would the parks still be there today? Would we spend crazy amounts of money? Could we tolerate international tour groups cutting in line in front of us when it's 98 degrees out with 80% humidity? Heck no.

You go because there is something there you're looking for. You and I and everyone else find something there that we cannot find anywhere else on this planet or anywhere else in this country (save DL) and it is our secret place, it's our holy shrine, our "Laughing Place" as I've often alluded to. There's this secret society of Disney addicts who perhaps understand this best of all...and I'm here with many of them now...

So, when they perhaps...I dunno...SUCK at taking care of the place, or they don't hold up to that standard, I, like so many others on here...get my feathers ruffled. My inner Donald Duck grabs the keyboard and goes nuts. It's not to simply be a grump, a troll, or to just female dog about something...it's about protecting something that means so much to us...

I feel like, if I didn't stop once in a while and say "Hey! That ain't right!" that I'd be letting the place down and maybe by extension letting Walt down. The man died two decades before my birth, but I still feel obligated to him... YES! The place is a business...that's true...but it's also a gift that has transcended time and many changes and is a part of us...we gotta protect it...we gotta keep it special for ourselves and our kids...that part is essential...there's something about it...that no one can put their finger on...and you take care of things that special...

Walt once said "Disneyland is your land..." that is THE first stanza of his dedication speech...I seriously doubt he would have made any change to that statement for WDW or more specifically Magic Kingdom. So, I guess I feel extra obligated to take care of it!

There's also the fact that the people that gripe know a LOT about the place...they're super uber cool folks to talk to and hang out with...I enjoy the conversation very much! In fac t, I'd wager that the folks who gripe the most have the best time because they look around and there are these stories everywhere they look...both real and imaginary... they get it. There's a bigger gear at work...and I like to think of myself as one of those people. I look at rides, scenery, people, and design and I know instantly what the standard is...I know instantly what the story behind something is...and I know what's good...I find this reason enough to be discontent...but it's really all outta love...

So yeah...just my two cents...or from the length of this...buck fifty... take or leave!

 

[The Mom]

Let's stop with the name calling, etc. and stay on topic. I just deleted a whole bunch of posts because people can't be civil to each other.

 

[BiffyClyro]

. A lot of people get upset when attraction change, in which I understand because we all have memories, but at the end of the day they have gone for a reason. That's not to say you can't miss a place, but making comments suggesting Disney is loosing it's touch, magic, what would Walt say ....


As well as this, there seems to be a group of people who get angry that standards have dropped and that Disney do not care for their parks. It's obvious how hard they work to keep everything running and working and clean, but unfortunately due to budgets, time etc. it's not always possible to keep everything 100% perfect. Some guests seem to let this ruin their whole trip.


Think people need reminding at how lucky they are to have gone to Disney because there are many less fortunate families and individuals who will never experience this wonderful place.

 

[DisneyDebNJ]

@ExtinctJenn actually, this is an excellent question. I can honestly say, in all of our trips, we have never been disappointed. If light bulbs are out we don't care, if rides are down, so be it ... lots of other things to do. We don't let small things ruffle our feathers while on vacation. Yes, I hate when I get banged in to with strollers, with Mom's rushing to the monorail (one year, I had a woman ram into me, and put a gash in my ankle, never stopped, until a CM grabbed her when she saw the blood seeping down the side of my foot) BUT ..... we ALL have experienced our kids getting cranky and tired and try our best to head back to our resort. I hate when a family snuck into the Concierge Lounge and had their kids push my family out of the way to grab the last 8 or 10 egg rolls, then have the mother scream at me, because I tried to take the last one... telling me "my son saw it first and he's in front of you" Yeah, I don't like that ALOT LOL.
Such is life... and stuff happens, ANYWHERE... but we still go, and will continue to go. Disney means alot to my family and our history together. I really do feel like reality is miles away during my visit. My expectations are only this .. We WILL have a fabulous time and we always do, despite some minor setbacks we ALL experience.. In defense of the naysayers, alot of families scrimp and save for a memorable vacation, and get annoyed when things aren't *just so*, I guess I understand, sorta. We consider ourselves very fortunate to be able to visit Disney every year, and while there, always try to spread the love and a little pixie dust. Be it giving fast passes to a family, using my unused dining credits to *pay* for a family's snack or even dinner, share my beignets (yep, I sure did a few years back). Am I a pixie dust snorter? Yep.... you betcha..
In regards to comments about keeping *trash* out of the parks ... I just can't even comment, that's just ridiculous. We go every year, like I said earlier, and have funded other's trips, because we wanted to, again, just spreading the love. No one is better than anyone else you encounter at any park or resort. We're all visiting for the same reason... our love of all things Disney.... Let the flaming begin ... You all have a wonderful day and thank the stars above for all you have

 

[Tangled21]

All of us love WDW. We love it so much we took the time to join a forum about WDW. Now just because I love the house of mouse, however, doesn't mean I don't have my issues with how WDW operates.

I know disney is a business and is trying to grow financially, but how do you justify raising ticket costs by 25% in 3 years? And have you seen the prices for hotels in 2014? Outrageous. My biggest qualms about WDW are the exponentially rising prices, while TDO is giving us less (3 FP a day, eventually eliminating EMH) while attempting to market it as more.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I just irks me to see that TDO, in the recent past, has put their own bonuses ahead of show quality, and new entertainment and attractions. If the parks were as well maintained and had new entertainment offerings and new knock your socks off state of the art attractions, no one would say a word about bonuses. The fact that the last honest to God E-Ticket attraction they built at the MK was Splash and it was built 4 years before my oldest daughter was born and she goes to college next year. Is inexcusable. The fact that DHS only has 6 rides 24 years after it opened is just sad. The fact that FutureWorld is a shell of it's former self is even sadder considering how over the top ambitious it was when it opened. And the fact DAK isn't even a half day park 14 years after it opened makes you question their commitment to providing ones monies worth.
Would ANYONE here pay $90 to get into either DHS or DAK? That would be $360 for a family of 4.

 

[draybook]

Think people need reminding at how lucky they are to have gone to Disney because there are many less fortunate families and individuals who will never experience this wonderful place.

We choose to give our money to TDO, so therefore it is our place to voice concerns over how it is being managed. I'm not lucky enough to visit WDW, I literally work 54-62 hours a week all year long to make sure we can go.

Now, I'm no accountant or business whiz, obviously, but I can make some observations from the outside. TDO doesn't have the "budget" as you say because they're too busy building DVC locations and MM/FP-. Meanwhile, at another place they are somehow finding the budget to build fantastic new attractions and expansions. That seems quite curious to me seeing as how there are numerous people on this board that are quick to point out just how many more people visit WDW.

And I'll say it again; when you can sit here and read about how long time visitors are becoming disillusioned with the parks as well as newer guests, well........it can't be a conspiracy theory or sheer coincidence.

 

[epcotisbest]

I just irks me to see that TDO, in the recent past, has put their own bonuses ahead of show quality, and new entertainment and attractions. If the parks were as well maintained and had new entertainment offerings and new knock your socks off state of the art attractions, no one would say a word about bonuses. The fact that the last honest to God E-Ticket attraction they built at the MK was Splash and it was built 4 years before my oldest daughter was born and she goes to college next year. Is inexcusable. The fact that DHS only has 6 rides 24 years after it opened is just sad. The fact that FutureWorld is a shell of it's former self is even sadder considering how over the top ambitious it was when it opened. And the fact DAK isn't even a half day park 14 years after it opened makes you question their commitment to providing ones monies worth.
Would ANYONE here pay $90 to get into either DHS or DAK? That would be $360 for a family of 4.

Most of the things you call facts are opinions and that tend to weaken your argument, in my opinion.

 

[BiffyClyro]

Sorry, but that doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned. We choose to give our money to TDO, so therefore it is our place to voice concerns over how it is being managed. I'm not lucky enough to visit WDW, I literally work 54-62 hours a week all year long to make sure we can go.

Now, I'm no accountant or business whiz, obviously, but I can make some observations from the outside. TDO doesn't have the "budget" as you say because they're too busy building DVC locations and MM/FP-. Meanwhile, at another place they are somehow finding the budget to build fantastic new attractions and expansions. That seems quite curious to me seeing as how there are numerous people on this board that are quick to point out just how many more people visit WDW.

And I'll say it again; when you can sit here and read about how long time visitors are becoming disillusioned with the parks as well as newer guests, well........it can't be a conspiracy theory or sheer coincidence.

It doesn't take a business whiz to notice that money is reserved for certain projects and that those budgets can;t be just thrown anywhere. What i'm trying to say is..Just because an electronic mouse is broken in splash mountain and it isn;t fixed right away, some guests let that ruin their whole trip and are quick to say how disney is going down the pan.

 

[wm49rs]

It doesn't take a business whiz to notice that money is reserved for certain projects and that those budgets can;t be just thrown anywhere. What i'm trying to say is..Just because an electronic mouse is broken in splash mountain and it isn;t fixed right away, some guests let that ruin their whole trip and are quick to say how disney is going down the pan.



.

Not going down the drain, but if effects and lights are consistently out over more than one trip, the (well) paying visitor has the right to expect better and voice their concerns.

 

[Monkee Girl]

I don't think it's wrong to have an opinion on how the company runs the parks. I am in no way a perfectionist or doom and gloomer but I am not blinded by pixie dust either. I guess when we go so much and pay so much, we just feel confused when we see certain things done the way they are.

My cousin and I were just talking Fantasy Land Expansion the other day. We felt the finished project wasn't worth the hype that Disney was selling. Don't get me wrong, the new stuff is really pretty and I really like the extra walking space. We particularly like the Rapunzel area and I enjoyed Dumbo's Circus. But when you look at what was added and what they could have added, it is disappointing. I think whoever is running the park section now (no, I don't pay attention to names, sorry) are rushing things just to compete instead of making well thought out quality projects.

Anyway, I don't hate Disney, I love it to the point where I want the park to be the best it can be. Guess, I am just going to have to get a job at Disney, work my way to the top, and take control of the parks myself, lol

 

[epcotisbest]

What of that was opinion? Other than the "who would spend?" hypothetical question?

According to most definitions, something is a fact if it matches objective reality. For something to be objective, it must be outside of the mind and not be based on feelings or biases. This is the opposite of an opinion, which is what an individual thinks or feels about a subject.
Although the differences between facts and opinions usually rest on whether they are objective or subjective, a true statement can in some cases be subjective. If a person says he is feeling sad, for example, that is a subjective fact about his emotional state — it is subjective because it is only that person's individual experience. On the other hand, if the first person tells the second person that the second person feels sad, this statement is an opinion or guess, regardless of whether it is true.

The most glaring example was the statement "And the fact DAK isn't even a half day park..." which is purely opinion.

 

[The Mom]

Let's stop with the name calling, etc. and stay on topic. I just deleted a whole bunch of posts because people can't be civil to each other.

I'm quoting myself, because some posters missed it the first time around.

 

[draybook]

I'm quoting myself, because some posters missed it the first time around.

Sorry Mom, I'm putting myself into time out.......

 

[ecranos]

Wow! Very lively thread! Don't hate it, just rolling with the tide of changes. Nothing stays the same and our memories cloud things sometimes. Adapting to new goings on at Disney is OK with us.

 

[ford91exploder]

(stepping AROUND the Rockem' Sockem' Robots in discussion)

Well,

I guess for me, I have a definite love for the place and for (most) everything Disney...

I guess what gets my goat and why I complain on occasion is that they (on occasion) don't live up to a certain standard that I feel (personally) that Walt set. I am often annoyed at how they let the dollar overtake quality. I DO understand that when it all comes down to it, it is a business. And as Milton Friedman once said "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits..."

That's all good and well...and I suppose over the long term it does benefit the parks and then by extension me.

However, I look back on the past and into my vast collection of books, movies, magazines, and stories from the Disney park story and I see so much good that had been done and I see so much charm and trial and error. Now-a-days, that charm seems to be dwindling in favor of pushing the latest crap down our throats on occasion. The latest trend in Florida is totally based upon sales sales sales, and cheap cheap cheap on ride maintenance.

Walt often said that "QUALITY Would OUT" and he had a philosophy by which you did NOT shortchange the guests of anything in quality of the rides and shows. To Walt, everything you do in the theme parks, was no different than paying admission and going to see one of his movies. If you went to see one of his films, the whole darn thing was there. The whole reel. They didn't cut this out, or remove this scene, or alter this scene to crappier dialogue, if the projector burnt through the film...new film was ready to go to replace it and the whole idea was that you got what you paid for and that you left both happy and filled with good experience memories. The Disney mark means a type of quaulity and assurance that you cannot find anywhere else. It is surely more than just Mickey Mouse. It is something that comes laden with heavy expectation...

Now, suppose we had never known any different? Suppose Walt was a tight-wad and the rides always sucked and every thing was done half-wazooed...would the parks still be there today? Would we spend crazy amounts of money and tolerate international tour groups cutting in line in front of us when it's 98 degrees out with 80% humidity? Heck no. You go because there is something there you're looking for. You and I and everyone else find something there that we cannot find anywhere else on this planet or anywhere else in this country (save DL) and it is our secret place, it's our holy shrine, our "Laughing Place" as I've often alluded to.

So, when they "SUCK at taking care of the place, or they don't hold up to that standard, I, like so many others on here...get my feathers ruffled. My inner Donald Duck grabs the keyboard and goes nuts. It's not to simply be a grump, a troll, or to just female dog about something...it's about protecting something that means so much to us.

I feel like, if I didn't stop once in a while and say "Hey! That ain't right!" that I'd be letting the place down and maybe by extension letting Walt down. The place is a business...that's true...but it's also a gift that has transcended time and many changes and is a part of us...we gotta protect it...we gotta keep it special for ourselves and our kids...that part is essential.

Walt once said "Disneyland is your land..." that's the first stanza of his dedication speech...I seriously doubt he would have made any change to that statement for WDW or more specifically Magic Kingdom. So, I guess I feel obligated to take care of it!

There's also the fact that the people that gripe know a LOT about the place...they're super uber cool folks to talk to and hang out with...I enjoy the conversation very much!

So yeah...just my two cents...or from the length of this...buck fifty... take or leave!

Best Post EVER on why we complain about the CURRENT state of parks if only it were possible to like this post a million times over!

 

[ford91exploder]

All of us love WDW. We love it so much we took the time to join a forum about WDW. Now just because I love the house of mouse, however, doesn't mean I don't have my issues with how WDW operates.

I know disney is a business and is trying to grow financially, but how do you justify raising ticket costs by 25% in 3 years? And have you seen the prices for hotels in 2014? Outrageous. My biggest qualms about WDW are the exponentially rising prices, while TDO is giving us less (3 FP a day, eventually eliminating EMH) while attempting to market it as more.

Exactly right, If the magic were being INCREASED with new shows and attractions even little ones, Like the 30's movie stars at DHS which I have not seen for years, I don't believe the complaints on fan boards like this one would be as vituperative as they are. But when people are paying far more for far less product well the result is not going to be pretty