You Hate Everything About It, Yet You Still Go

[BoarderPhreak]

Why? Because I always have. From my earliest memories as a kid through this year (and considering a second trip this year, third in the past year). A big part of it is nostalgia. Reliving one's youth, remembering what WDW was like in it's "heyday." All current "issues" aside, it's still cool, still fun, still WDW. There's really nothing else like it (aside from other properties, anyway).

 

[danpam1024]

I went for 1 day in 2012, last BIG trip was 2011. I am a FL resident, I let my passes that I had for 10+ years lapse. I grew up there, I went to Grad Nite there, I spent my 21st birthday, countless holidays, celebrations, and vacations there. It really holds a special place for me, but it is not even close to what it used to be. My son has been going since he was 6 months old and he says "we can go if you want Mamma, but I'd like to go back to Universal". When I crunch the numbers, value, experience, Universal comes out on top-always. I come to the boards hoping Disney is shaping up, but I am disheartened to see it is not. My way to get my "fix" has been reduced to a quick stop at DTD on our way home from Uni and even that is getting to be too much of a pain to deal with. DH says by the time we have grandkids, it will be "our time" to return. Sadly, although I will never admit it, I think he's right. BUT I still want to go one more time for Christmas

 

[SagamoreBeach]

You didn't exactly ride a hydrolater. You kinda stood in it. The effects did make it seem fairly real however, and was a nice touch.

You mean... it didn't really go anywhere? I am aghast!
-Tony

 

[Goofyernmost]

You mean... it didn't really go anywhere? I am aghast!
-Tony

I'm sorry, my mistake. Yes, it did take you down to many fathoms below the surface. I had forgotten that! My bad!

 

[SagamoreBeach]

I'm sorry, my mistake. Yes, it did take you down to many fathoms below the surface. I had forgotten that! My bad!

Thank you for that! I feel much better knowing that I wasn't just standing there quivering for no reason at all!
-Tony

 

[RoyWalley]

If you don't like the parks, or think they are below some mythical standard, why are you going and spending thousands of dollars? You should not go, seriously, you should make a point and take your vacation dollar elsewhere, sadly though, you're the minority when it comes to feeling this way, that's simple fact.

I know of no one outside these forums who thinks Disney World is below standard in anything, simply because its just not that important. If you took all the people posting on any Disney forum complaining about the "state of the parks", you have a microscopic thimbleful of dollars Disney will not miss, if they did or thought they would miss that source of revenue, they would have listened to them by now.

They haven't, they never will unless the group of unsatisfied becomes large enough to take notice, and Disney will only notice when those dollars become substantial. Its a sinking ship because people like myself and 99.99999% of the general public will go and enjoy the parks because its what we do, its a vacation I and other choose to take and spend money on. If you are unhappy with the parks and continue to spend money going there, you're part of the problem, you may as well stay the course and enjoy yourself.

Jimmy Thick- Welcome aboard!!!

Awesome post Jimmy, right on 100%

Love the "mythical standard" line.

 

[Crazy Harry]

If you don't like the parks, or think they are below some mythical standard, why are you going and spending thousands of dollars? You should not go, seriously, you should make a point and take your vacation dollar elsewhere, sadly though, you're the minority when it comes to feeling this way, that's simple fact.

I know of no one outside these forums who thinks Disney World is below standard in anything, simply because its just not that important. If you took all the people posting on any Disney forum complaining about the "state of the parks", you have a microscopic thimbleful of dollars Disney will not miss, if they did or thought they would miss that source of revenue, they would have listened to them by now.

They haven't, they never will unless the group of unsatisfied becomes large enough to take notice, and Disney will only notice when those dollars become substantial. Its a sinking ship because people like myself and 99.99999% of the general public will go and enjoy the parks because its what we do, its a vacation I and other choose to take and spend money on. If you are unhappy with the parks and continue to spend money going there, you're part of the problem, you may as well stay the course and enjoy yourself.

Jimmy Thick- Welcome aboard!!!

Say you have a restaurant and mouse poison is loose in cooking areas, cooks are not washing their hands or wearing gloves, meats are stored below specified temperatures, and work stations are not properly sanitised. So does this mean if the customers don't notice and buisness is booming that nothing needs to be done about it? What's my point? Just because "most" people are not aware of the issues, does not mean they shouldn't be addressed. You could argue that "most" do not go often enough to notice the issues or are just doing this for their kids and don't really care.

Another explaination: many people today have abizmal observational skills. I work in retail, and I spend much of my time counteracting a person's inability to see what is right in front of their face. When someone asks where a product is, they are typically 20ft of less away from it. The other day I had a husband ask where extention cords were that were on sale, he thought that we must be out of them. Well, his wife was standing right in front of them, and I had to ask her to move so I could show them. I have people ask me where the outdoors lights are in spite of the fact they are 20 feet behind me on a 50 foot wall. People will consistantly come to my desk to ask where the light bulbs are. In order to get to my desk, they have to look directly at and walk around the 30 ft aisle of light bulbs. In general people can't find things in my department despite it being the smallest physical size in the store, and 95% of the products either have glaringly obvious displays or clearly labeled aisle markers at the beginning of each aisle.

I could go on and on and on. These are not isolated incidents. They happen all day every day. So, from my experience, I don't expect "most "people to notice anything.

The standards you speak of or not mythical, they are created by Disney. Lets say you build an attraction with 50 special effects. Is the standard then that all 50 effects should be operational? If not then what is the purpose of the effect if care for its maintainance and operation is not observed? And from your perspective if I like this ride and I am dissatisfied with the number of effects not working and the length of time they have been down, I should simply sit down and shut up? What wrong with me for liking something and being disappointed by its condition? Since the turnstyles are still turning and the bottom line is unharmed I should enjoy myself or go home because I am "part of the problem"?

I suppose you also support Chinese(foreign) products over American made and low worker wages? Why do I say this?

Chinese products: Most people buy Chinese(foreign) because of availability and price. By your philosophy no one should complain about lack of US manufacturing jobs because its not hurting these companies bottom line and 99.99999% people buy foreign made products.

Low worker wages: Wal-Mart does a rediculous amount of buisness, and pays their employees poorly in return. But since buisness is great and stores are fully staffed, then this must not be a legit issue and merly a "mythical" standard that few care about.

 

[Crazy Harry]

If you don't like the parks, or think they are below some mythical standard, why are you going and spending thousands of dollars?

If you don't like America and the way that it is run don't complain about it or attempt to change it, go live somewhere else.

-from the philosophical viewpoint of Jimmy Thick.

 

[ExtinctJenn]

Say you have a restaurant and mouse poison is loose in cooking areas, cooks are not washing their hands or wearing gloves, meats are stored below specified temperatures, and work stations are not properly sanitised. So does this mean if the customers don't notice and buisness is booming that nothing needs to be done about it? What's my point? Just because "most" people are not aware of the issues, does not mean they shouldn't be addressed. You could argue that "most" do not go often enough to notice the issues or are just doing this for their kids and don't really care.

To @Jimmy Thick's point... I don't know that anyone is arguing whether or not issues should be addressed. That said however I would say there is a key difference between this example and visiting WDW in that all of the things you mention could potentially kill you whereas the things "wrong" at WDW are really perception of standards and how things should be upkept. If you used a similar restaurant example, say your favorite restaurant stopped painting when the walls were chipped/dented or patched up a broken table instead of buying a new one, would you stop visiting the restaurant if ultimately the food was what you were going for? I think that's really the point he was making with that post. If something doesn't live up to your standards, why in the world would you continue to give that something thousands of dollars of your hard earned money?

 

[BoarderPhreak]

[Younger] folks that have never known "the glory days" don't know what's missing - or appreciate what has changed.

"Oooh, TT is awesome!" Nevermind that there was an actually cooler v1.0... And an even cooler WoM before that.

 

[Crazy Harry]

To @Jimmy Thick's point... I don't know that anyone is arguing whether or not issues should be addressed. That said however I would say there is a key difference between this example and visiting WDW in that all of the things you mention could potentially kill you whereas the things "wrong" at WDW are really perception of standards and how things should be upkept. If you used a similar restaurant example, say your favorite restaurant stopped painting when the walls were chipped/dented or patched up a broken table instead of buying a new one, would you stop visiting the restaurant if ultimately the food was what you were going for? I think that's really the point he was making with that post. If something doesn't live up to your standards, why in the world would you continue to give that something thousands of dollars of your hard earned money?

Tell me something, is that chipping paint lead based or getting in the food, and is that broken table going to spill hot soup in someone's lap

Yes, we are arguing whether things should be addressed or not, very clearly in fact. People point out issues because they are frustrated they are not being addressed. The opposing viewpoint says these complaints are based upon "mythical" standards and that most people don't notice these issues. So if they are mythical and no one notices them, then this is an argument that they should not be addressed.

I obviously know the difference between health issues and mechanical maintainence of amusement rides. That wasn't the point. The point is just because people do not notice an issue does not mean that one does not exist. The idea of the people who do notice should just sit down, shut up, and not ruin it for the rest is kind of obsurd.

And your comparison with the restaurant is very lacking. Everyday we invest time and money in things that don't live up to "our standards": job, government, sports teams, even family. Why do we continue to do this? Because the good does outweigh the bad, but that doesn't mean that it is perfect just because we stick around and that nothing should change. Jimmy Thick's point is an ultimatum: either beleive it is perfect or stop going.

Instead, I will continue to go and enjoy myself, yet still be frustrated with poor management desicions and poor maintainence, with hope this will change in the future.

 

[ExtinctJenn]

Tell me something, is that chipping paint lead based or getting in the food, and is that broken table going to spill hot soup in someone's lap

Yes, we are arguing whether things should be addressed or not, very clearly in fact. People point out issues because they are frustrated they are not being addressed. The opposing viewpoint says these complaints are based upon "mythical" standards and that most people don't notice these issues. So if they are mythical and no one notices them, then this is an argument that they should not be addressed.

I obviously know the difference between health issues and mechanical maintainence of amusement rides. That wasn't the point. The point is just because people do not notice an issue does not mean that one does not exist. The idea of the people who do notice should just sit down, shut up, and not ruin it for the rest is kind of obsurd.

And your comparison with the restaurant is very lacking. Everyday we invest time and money in things that don't live up to "our standards": job, government, sports teams, even family. Why do we continue to do this? Because the good does outweigh the bad, but that doesn't mean that it is perfect just because we stick around and that nothing should change. Jimmy Thick's point is an ultimatum: either beleive it is perfect or stop going.

Instead, I will continue to go and enjoy myself, yet still be frustrated with poor management desicions and poor maintainence, with hope this will change in the future.

Oh sure I totally get where you're coming from... was just trying to clarify what I think he meant. The key being that if when you go, you spend more time thinking about what's wrong and how frustrated you are then enjoying yourself, then why bother y'know? Trust me I totally get that there's some bad out there but using the restaurant analogy, sometimes you have to look past the bad when it's something you love. Heck... let's throw a relationship analogy in there... there may be things about my husband that I am not fond of. Maybe he doesn't shower often enough (this is purely an example... my husband showers plenty LOL!) or maybe he has quirks that drive me bonkers but I look past those because I love him and when we are together I enjoy myself. To some, those may be mythical standards that I'm holding him up to if they aren't something they'd focus on with their own significant other y'know?

The bottom line really is, however, that it's an opinion and we're all entitled to them... good or bad. I am one of those folks who doesn't get why people who rarely have anything good to say would want to spend all that money but I don't judge the folks who do. When I started this thread it was specifically to understand those folks since that's not my camp.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

Let's be clear here, and nip this right in the bud. There's no such thing as a "mythical standard" because it DID exist.

Remember when there were painters and light bulb changers out all night at the MK? When they used to pressure wash Main St (and everything else for that matter)? Just for fun, next time you take a stroll, count how many gum spots you see under your feet.

 

[Disnee4Me]

While this is an excellent analogy, it also clearly illustrates what needs to happen in order for WDW to improve. The Red Sox went downhill fast in 2012, got rid of the person making all those horrific decisions, and the very next season...best record in MLB.
Disney, on the other hand, doesn't see things with such logic. Had Disney been in charge of the Red Sox, they would've given Bobby Valentine a huge bonus after he drug the team into the gutter, not fired him.

Hey stop picking on Bobby Valentine ... my DS happened to go to his sports bar (Stamford, CT) on his 21st and Bobby bought him and his BF (born the same day, 7 hours earlier) their FIRST drink!! LOL

 

[Goofyernmost]

Low worker wages: Wal-Mart does a rediculous amount of buisness, and pays their employees poorly in return. But since buisness is great and stores are fully staffed, then this must not be a legit issue and merly a "mythical" standard that few care about.

Most everything that you stated in your post has a certain element of truth in it. That last, that I quoted is probably not wrong either, however, to single out Walmart is nothing by a complete lack of knowledge as to how retail clerks are paid. They are one of the lowest paid groups generally in this country. Even below McDonalds. Retail has always been a low paying job. What is sadder is that Walmart, at least, is willing to hire people that otherwise would not be employed by a smaller retailer. The difference between low pay, in this instance, and no pay is quite huge. I know everyone loves to beat up on Walmart, it seems like a socially important stand to make to many to agree with the "cool" crowd, but, that doesn't make it right.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Say you have a restaurant and mouse poison is loose in cooking areas, cooks are not washing their hands or wearing gloves, meats are stored below specified temperatures, and work stations are not properly sanitised. So does this mean if the customers don't notice and buisness is booming that nothing needs to be done about it? What's my point? Just because "most" people are not aware of the issues, does not mean they shouldn't be addressed. You could argue that "most" do not go often enough to notice the issues or are just doing this for their kids and don't really care.

What does food service health code violations have to do with a theme park? Poor analogy.

What are these issues in question? If there were serious issues at WDW the public at large would take notice, all I see are a small sample size of people complaining for the sake to complain, like the 60's during Vietnam but without the organization or the heart.

Another explaination: many people today have abizmal observational skills. I work in retail, and I spend much of my time counteracting a person's inability to see what is right in front of their face. When someone asks where a product is, they are typically 20ft of less away from it. The other day I had a husband ask where extention cords were that were on sale, he thought that we must be out of them. Well, his wife was standing right in front of them, and I had to ask her to move so I could show them. I have people ask me where the outdoors lights are in spite of the fact they are 20 feet behind me on a 50 foot wall. People will consistantly come to my desk to ask where the light bulbs are. In order to get to my desk, they have to look directly at and walk around the 30 ft aisle of light bulbs. In general people can't find things in my department despite it being the smallest physical size in the store, and 95% of the products either have glaringly obvious displays or clearly labeled aisle markers at the beginning of each aisle.

And the most often asked question in a retail environment is "Excuse me, where is the bathroom?". People come into retail stores with specific needs for things, a far cry from people spending thousands of dollars on vacations they don't need yet spend regardless going to WDW to complain about its conditions yet continue to go? Come on, no style.

I could go on and on and on. These are not isolated incidents. They happen all day every day. So, from my experience, I don't expect "most "people to notice anything.

The standards you speak of or not mythical, they are created by Disney. Lets say you build an attraction with 50 special effects. Is the standard then that all 50 effects should be operational? If not then what is the purpose of the effect if care for its maintainance and operation is not observed? And from your perspective if I like this ride and I am dissatisfied with the number of effects not working and the length of time they have been down, I should simply sit down and shut up? What wrong with me for liking something and being disappointed by its condition? Since the turnstyles are still turning and the bottom line is unharmed I should enjoy myself or go home because I am "part of the problem"?

Why would you possibly go to a theme park where you spend thousands of dollars if you know you're not going to enjoy the experience? That's my point, if you don't like it or believe in some mythical standard that more than likely never existed...

Oh wait, did I just go there?

Yes, here is the "mythical standard" people foolishly believe in.

See, most people go to WDW as young children, or young adults and are amazed at their first experience, an experience that they will never achieve again for the rest of your life, and you hold that experience to a standard WDW will never ever achieve again in your life, its all down hill, you will never get that back and the older you get the more elusive that "mythical standard" becomes. And in the process of chasing your first Disney high you become jaded and the "World" is never the same.

I on the other hand got over it and go to enjoy myself which if others followed my lead, it would do nothing but improve their own personal quality of life.

I suppose you also support Chinese(foreign) products over American made and low worker wages? Why do I say this?

Chinese products: Most people buy Chinese(foreign) because of availability and price. By your philosophy no one should complain about lack of US manufacturing jobs because its not hurting these companies bottom line and 99.99999% people buy foreign made products.

Low worker wages: Wal-Mart does a rediculous amount of buisness, and pays their employees poorly in return. But since buisness is great and stores are fully staffed, then this must not be a legit issue and merly a "mythical" standard that few care about.

And this ^ has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this thread.


Jimmy Thick- Believe what you will, I just summed it up in a nutshell.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

I'm certainly not trying to relive my first trip to WDW. I barely even remember it. And it wasn't until many, many trips later that EPCOT Center existed - during which I was in my early teens. My "gripes" come from a lifetime of visits and seeing firsthand the devolution of the experience in the name of cost-cutting, Iger'omics, etc.

I still go, and I still love every minute of it. Doesn't mean I can't make observations. And clearly I'm not alone in this or it would be a very boring thread.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

I'm certainly not trying to relive my first trip to WDW. I barely even remember it. And it wasn't until many, many trips later that EPCOT Center existed - during which I was in my early teens. My "gripes" come from a lifetime of visits and seeing firsthand the devolution of the experience in the name of cost-cutting, Iger'omics, etc.

I still go, and I still love every minute of it. Doesn't mean I can't make observations. And clearly I'm not alone in this or it would be a very boring thread.

I don't see cost cutting.

I don't see any devolution of the experience.

I see a place to go any get away from the real world in a safe and family friendly environment. Its nothing more than that and never will be, its a vacation.


Jimmy Thick- And yet people go and spend thousands of dollars when it don't meet their personal expectations...You have to wonder...

 

[BoarderPhreak]

I don't see cost cutting.

I don't see any devolution of the experience.

I see a place to go any get away from the real world in a safe and family friendly environment. Its nothing more than that and never will be, its a vacation.

That's great. I guess you're among Disney's ideal clientele, then.

But it's a big world out here, and others have their own opinions and we'll continue to discuss just the same.

 

[Hakunamatata]

I don't see cost cutting.

I don't see any devolution of the experience.

I see a place to go any get away from the real world in a safe and family friendly environment. Its nothing more than that and never will be, its a vacation.


Jimmy Thick- And yet people go and spend thousands of dollars when it don't meet their personal expectations...You have to wonder...

Just like paying taxes.........I keep paying them and get no real satisfaction from the entity I'm paying them too.