DisneyDebNJ
Well-Known Member
Kudos, Mom!I'm quoting myself, because some posters missed it the first time around.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
You Hate Everything About It, Yet You Still Go
- Thread starter ExtinctJenn
- Start date
gwhb75
Well-Known Member
Hey there. Let me chime in with some thoughts here (and no, I'm not trying to be confrontational - at least not intentionally). First, let me say I am an accountant with a business degree. No that doesn't make me a genius, but I do tend to look at things through a business lens. so...
1) If you aren't happy with the product or service a company is producing, stop purchasing whatever they are selling. This is the only real way to get changes made. Management will not view your purchase as the right to tell them how to run their business. Rather, your purchase entitles you to whatever it is you purchased, nothing more, nothing less. If you feel you didn't get what you paid for then you should let management know so they can rectify the situation (or choose to ignore it, in which case I go back to my first sentence in this point).
I've read of people who say things like "Disney is terrible. The next time we go to Florida, we're only going to Disney 6 days instead of 8, and we'll go to Universal for 2". Why go to Disney for 6 days? It just reinforces to management that people like what they are doing. Go for 0 days and hope that enough people do the same thing.
It's like a situation I know about where a restaurant chain changed one of their core products, much to everyone's unhappiness. However, when you read the letters people wrote, they were along the lines of "I hate the change you've made to your product. I've bought 10 in the last week and didn't like a single one".
2) If you really want to try and get changes made, rather than spending money on a vacation to Disney take the money and buy shares in Disney. That way, management actually does need to listen to you since you now have the right to attend the shareholder meetings, and you become the people they are actually trying to make happy (kind of like what PETA did when they bought shares in SeaWorld when it went public)
3) Don't confuse DVC with the rest of the parks. DVC is a stand-alone division that is, for all intents and purposes, self funding. The theme park budgets are not impacted by the decision to build new resorts. Even if they were, DVC is quite profitable and, if anything, would increase the amount of money that could be spent on the parks if the budgets worked that way.
4) I think people confuse not being happy with company strategy with the company not doing anything. Yes Universal is building more attractions, hotels, etc, which, when complete, will still leave them smaller than Disney. Disney has decided to invest in a new way of doing things instead. I guess we'll see in a few years how that works out for both companies.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
If you do that, eventually you'll go blind!!
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
They close the place at 5-6pm year round while the other parks stay open well into the night. Sometimes as late as 1am. So just based on operating hours alone, DAK is at best a 3/4 of a day park.
Last edited:
draybook
Well-Known Member
Thank you for posting! I've read your information and it has been good to read and digest. I will say one thing. Last night, when we were leaving the Memphis Zoo's Zoo Boo event, my wife said that perhaps we should cancel our bounce back to WDW and either try a Disney cruise + Universal or just do Universal. Honestly, I don't have a problem with that. It seems that we don't get uptight and/or ed off until we get to WDW. That really irks me because I enjoy the ambiance of WDW over Universal any day of the week. I also enjoy many more attractions at WDW than I do at Universal. It's just that the worker experience made a huge difference.
Anyhow, I think we're going to take a break from the parks for at least a year and see where WDW is headed.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
I let my AP expire in Dec. 2009. I have been to WDW 3 times since and was comped in all 3 times. I did buy a Pork Shank and a La Frou's Brew. But that is all the money I have given TDO since 2009.
The product they are offering isn't awful, but it pales in comparison to the product they offered for most of my 50 years. And no, I don't expect TDO to "see the light" because of the absence of my funds. I simply choose to spend my money at places that I feel offer a better value for my money. If that means UOR, Cheeca Lodge down at Islamorada, hitting the National Parks or staying in Times Square and hitting a few plays, I am OK with that.
The product they are offering isn't awful, but it pales in comparison to the product they offered for most of my 50 years. And no, I don't expect TDO to "see the light" because of the absence of my funds. I simply choose to spend my money at places that I feel offer a better value for my money. If that means UOR, Cheeca Lodge down at Islamorada, hitting the National Parks or staying in Times Square and hitting a few plays, I am OK with that.
gwhb75
Well-Known Member
That's probably the best thing to do if going makes you unhappy. The problem is that Disney is so huge that it will take a lot of people doing that to really make them take notice. I hope you enjoy whatever you decide to do though (vacations should be fun and enjoyable).
jlsHouston
Well-Known Member
I do see with the validity of many peoples opinions about the state of the attractions/rides today at WDW compared to yesteryear. I just know that overall my visits to WDW with the family meets or exceeds my expectations each time I have been and I am quite happy to continue to throw discretionary and not so discretionary dollars Disney's way for these vacation experiences. Now I will say that having stayed twice at the POLY, and while I still TOTALLY love that resort...I feel management really needs to spend some green and make the elevators at Samoa Longhouse look a bit less like the Hooters elevators in Vegas...
epcotisbest
Well-Known Member
I simply misunderstood that you were just referring to operating hours.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I also hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Walt Disney is dead. He created the theme park concept that is used, pardon the expression, universally now. Those two things, his name, and his idea are the only connections to the Disney Company that exists. No one named Disney currently works for the company, it is owned and controlled by stockholders who, for the most part, wouldn't know a theme park from an ice cream cone. They invest to get a return, no return, no investment. No investment, no company.
Whatever, Walt thought or did, is currently irrelevant. It is now run by people that have to look at the name under his picture to identify him. They don't give a tinker damn about what he would have thought or what he would have done. He is nothing more then a company logo to them. Wasting our time concerning ourselves about how different it might have been if he were still alive isn't productive at all. In fact, he would be about 112 years old and probably not overly connected.
What has been said is true. The only control you have, if any, is with your wallet. However, you have to remember that you have to give up the whole thing to get almost no reaction from anyone. The current young people have no knowledge of what was, they only know what is. If they like what they see, they return over and over. If they do that, what we think should be, based on the past, is worthless. My advice is to continue to go if you enjoy it in percentages high enough to overlook the costs. If you cannot do that, don't go. If enough people did that then change might happen, but, WDW isn't that far from being a pretty awesome place on it's own and a huge number of the current visitors are probably wondering how anyone can think it can be better then it already is. In this case, they may be right.
Whatever, Walt thought or did, is currently irrelevant. It is now run by people that have to look at the name under his picture to identify him. They don't give a tinker damn about what he would have thought or what he would have done. He is nothing more then a company logo to them. Wasting our time concerning ourselves about how different it might have been if he were still alive isn't productive at all. In fact, he would be about 112 years old and probably not overly connected.
What has been said is true. The only control you have, if any, is with your wallet. However, you have to remember that you have to give up the whole thing to get almost no reaction from anyone. The current young people have no knowledge of what was, they only know what is. If they like what they see, they return over and over. If they do that, what we think should be, based on the past, is worthless. My advice is to continue to go if you enjoy it in percentages high enough to overlook the costs. If you cannot do that, don't go. If enough people did that then change might happen, but, WDW isn't that far from being a pretty awesome place on it's own and a huge number of the current visitors are probably wondering how anyone can think it can be better then it already is. In this case, they may be right.
TubaGeek
God bless the "Ignore" button.
I will agree with you on that one. If you REALLY do DAK, it can definitely take you from open to close. That said, I think that the statement would be accurate with the addendum: "to a casual visitor".
englanddg
One Little Spark...
It's also an indication of one of the key issues of the Park, which I'm sure the designers thought would be a plus...
It's easy to get lost, and therefore skip attractions and sections.
profscottraynor
Well-Known Member
I also hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Walt Disney is dead. He created the theme park concept that is used, pardon the expression, universally now. Those two things, his name, and his idea are the only connections to the Disney Company that exists. No one named Disney currently works for the company, it is owned and controlled by stockholders who, for the most part, wouldn't know a theme park from an ice cream cone. They invest to get a return, no return, no investment. No investment, no company.
Whatever, Walt thought or did, is currently irrelevant. It is now run by people that have to look at the name under his picture to identify him. They don't give a tinker damn about what he would have thought or what he would have done. He is nothing more then a company logo to them. Wasting our time concerning ourselves about how different it might have been if he were still alive isn't productive at all. In fact, he would be about 112 years old and probably not overly connected.
What has been said is true. The only control you have, if any, is with your wallet. However, you have to remember that you have to give up the whole thing to get almost no reaction from anyone. The current young people have no knowledge of what was, they only know what is. If they like what they see, they return over and over. If they do that, what we think should be, based on the past, is worthless. My advice is to continue to go if you enjoy it in percentages high enough to overlook the costs. If you cannot do that, don't go. If enough people did that then change might happen, but, WDW isn't that far from being a pretty awesome place on it's own and a huge number of the current visitors are probably wondering how anyone can think it can be better then it already is. In this case, they may be right.
A little off topic but I am intrigued by your Walt Disney comments. Although he is long gone I suspect that there are certain cultural aspects that have held on. I have the feeling that the Apple company will react much the same way to Steve Jobs being gone.
TubaGeek
God bless the "Ignore" button.
Originally the park was supposed to have plenty of thrill rides and characters, as well as plenty of exploration trails. We all know what happened to the exciting stuff... but at least (most of) the trails are still there, since they're cheaper. Unfortunately, that's not why most people go to Disney parks. They just don't know how to do it right.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Yes, it was a great dream...which got soaked by a corporate organization who didn't really think through what they were doing, and by investors who were not interested in the proposed investments.
Is it a fantastic Park? No...it's not. It's hot, it's easy to get lost, it's boring. It takes all the worst aspects of a modern zoo and shoves them in with a half-hearted attempt to be a "theme" park (the various lands carry very little distinctive "theme" compared to other parks to someone who isn't "looking" for the theme...
It sounds and looks like something some teenagers playing around in the Imagineering forum could come up with, without any operational or other considerations.
I know this is oft totted...but the Yeti is indicative of the park. First off, why put an animetronic of such scope and scale in a place where it could not easily be serviced? That just doesn't make sense (assuming it is true). Anyone who has worked with animetronics (as I have) knows they need regular and caring maintenance to operate. Cylinder (or more expensive, but sturdier servos) need replacement, they wear, etc... Also, Disney friggin OUTSOURCED it, as I recall (which, if my recollection is correct, is telling).
You can say that the casual "guest" doesn't know how to "do it right"...but if it requires "knowing how to do it right" in the first place, instead of being obvious to the first time guest...I'd say it's a failure.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
First of all, it really isn't off topic, there have been multiple references to the disappointment that many feel because the honestly think that Walt wouldn't have like it that way. That is a very legitimate feeling but it is not based in reality. My reference is only to highlight the actual lack of influence that Walt still has. Don't get me wrong, his concepts are the very core of the Disney Parks, but his overall philosophy of how to run a theme park (not create one) has started to disappeared and the longer he is gone the less it will be followed. These guys that currently run those companies started and nourished by specific individuals like Walt Disney and Steve Jobs are not going to think, at least not forever, that Walt or Steve was any smarter then they are. Walt's creations were so huge that his coattails have helped keep Disney at the top. That is because so many people believe that Walt's expectations are presently equaled by those that followed. Those that follow give it lip service, but when the doors are closed they do it their way and there is no one to stop them. The same will apply to Apple. They are presently surviving on the Steve Jobs legacy, but too wide a variation will cause that to crumble.
Those of us that seem to complain a lot are merely saying that we feel that the variations at Disney have widened to a danger point. Eventually all that good will and high expectation Walt planted will wither and die without a continuous operating procedure copied after what made the company great to begin with.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
My perceptions aren't based on "What Would Walt Do", but based on the WDW that I grew up with. Which started 4 years after Walt was dead, but those that knew and respected his vision were trying their best to live up to it. Those that guide the parks that consider themeselves his equal need to sit though a showing of One Man's Dream for a reality check.
The suits at TDO need slapped down. I can only withhold my meager contributions, but that is less than their Christmas Bonuses. So I do what is in my family's best intrest and that is go where I get the best bang for my bucks. If others feel that throwing $730/night for a 3 star hotel is worth it, there is little I can do to combat that ignorance.
For us, it is not. I can can show my kids real quality while other pad the cofers of a management team that I feel needs no rewards for their profiteering. They have profited enough from strip mining America's greatest family vacation destination. I know it could be leagues better. They are ignorant to the awesomeness that could be Walt Disney World.
But y'all knock yourselves out discussing the best cupcake in "The World". When I can show you better 4 miles away, but that would be "persona non grata" since it's "outside the bubble".
I honestly believe MANY pixie dusters realize there are sever problems with the management team currently destroying their "laughingPlace" but are totally in denial, but would rather stay that way given the $10K+ a year they throw at the place.
The suits at TDO need slapped down. I can only withhold my meager contributions, but that is less than their Christmas Bonuses. So I do what is in my family's best intrest and that is go where I get the best bang for my bucks. If others feel that throwing $730/night for a 3 star hotel is worth it, there is little I can do to combat that ignorance.
For us, it is not. I can can show my kids real quality while other pad the cofers of a management team that I feel needs no rewards for their profiteering. They have profited enough from strip mining America's greatest family vacation destination. I know it could be leagues better. They are ignorant to the awesomeness that could be Walt Disney World.
But y'all knock yourselves out discussing the best cupcake in "The World". When I can show you better 4 miles away, but that would be "persona non grata" since it's "outside the bubble".
I honestly believe MANY pixie dusters realize there are sever problems with the management team currently destroying their "laughingPlace" but are totally in denial, but would rather stay that way given the $10K+ a year they throw at the place.
Last edited:
Seabasealpha1
Well-Known Member
Thank ye...thank ye... Just being honest!
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Great post - well done!
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
1 - Agree
2 - Disney changed format of shareholders meeting to prevent the tactics that PETA used when SeaWorld went public so unless you are a hedge fund or large institutional investor you have no voice in the shareholder meetings.
3 - DVC, Many of us who are really unhappy with the changes are DVC members many of us with large point holdings, DVC is SOLD as a synergistic entity with the parks now that access to attractions signficantly degraded we are quite angry with TWDC especially since the PROFITS from DVC are rolled up into the P&R aggregate. Those of us who added on right before NGE feel we were victims of a Bait-n-Switch by TWDC and are seriously P------d.
Also DVC changed the annual meeting format so there is no longer a Q&A session so members no longer have a voice in how DVC is run. ie DVC will feed the members c--p and they better sit down and like it - the powers that be have spoken.
4 - If you had been on the investors call, The 'Strategy' if you can call it that was to do nothing except reduce CAPEX and hiring for the P&R division, So I think it's fair to say that TWDC's strategy is to do nothing.