"What's Next?" presentation December 7th

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
It sorta does because I've been around Disney fan forums for what I believe is all or most of your life. I know people who work for Imagineering and others who used to and work for other companies or have their own design firms. ... This may shock you, but I am quite familiar with fanbois who come and post on Disney forums whose dream is to be a WDI employee. You are one of many ... and I try and give them some honest truths about the chances of that and why it isn't the dream job they believe it to be.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Walt-Disney-Imagineering-Reviews-E139084.htm

Also, I'm going to add that WDI's caustic, pretentious culture is one of the main reasons why I DON'T want to work there. I'm an animation/film student (not an illustrator like most of WDI's creative staff) and I see what WDI is like now and I really think that it's pointless to put yourself through that kind of environment. Life is short and when there are so many better places to work at as a creative, whether they are part of Disney like Pixar and Walt Disney Animation Studios/Television Animation or Dreamworks, Laika, Sony Animation, or Frederator, why even bother with WDI? Outside of Carsland, the HKDL expansions, and TDS, they haven't made anything near the bar which they set for themselves long ago.

Jim Hill and Mitch of Imagineering Disney on WDW Fanboys separately said that if you want to work in themed entertainment, you're better off NOT working at WDI. WDI isn't like what you saw on the Disneyland/World of Color TV show, contractors like Garner Holt or a Design firm like the Thinkwell Group are more of that ilk. Stop giving them praise they didn't earn. They only use that to tell you how grateful you should be that you work at WDI…
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I know there are a lot of people on the forum who know heaps more than me, but I know my stuff when it comes to this topic. I read the book a matter of weeks ago. Bob Gurr was the one who designed the tubular steel coaster idea and he also did all the track layout in the Matterhorn. All without and engineering degree!

You might want to check.. there is reason why Ed and Karl are the ones in the IAAPA hall of fame - not Bob Gurr
http://www.iaapa.org/about-iaapa/awards/hall-of-fame/hof-bios

Here's a snip from the book - I highly suggest you get it. It's only $3 for kindle...

The mountain would not be just a structure; it would contain two ride systems and also allow passage of the skyway buckets as they journeyed between Tomorrowland and Fantasyland. Walt Disney had seen a Wild Mouse roller coaster in Europe and thought that might be the way to go. A Wild Mouse travels on steel rails, usually angle iron, along a curving route. Unlike today’s train configurations, a wild mouse ran individual cars separately along the track. But could it simulate a bobsled? Despite the Disney organizations best efforts, it could not. Something radically different had to be created for such a ride. That

is where Ed and Karl came in, and it would change the face of roller coaster design forever. Karl: About 1957 we had a visit by Admiral Joe Fowler about if we could build the Matterhorn. I’ll say that in 1958 we actually started the Matterhorn. They designed the mountain first. We put two tracks in and had to stay in the mountain. We couldn’t go outside. Ed: You bet we couldn’t! Essentially they built a steel building, and the steel building was designed, of course, to go in the Matterhorn shape. We had to bridge the distances between the supports they gave us. They gave us a preliminary draft on the building. However, we started to

build the ride before they were very far along with the building. They gave us ten months to design the two rides in the mountain. Karl: So we worked on the layout for the ride. In working on the layout, the goal was to establish the friction slope for the ride, taking into account the various radii, inclines and drops. This was a first for us, and it was a lot of work. We had to miss the other track with proper crossover points. There was not a lot of room for two tracks. Disney wanted to use angle iron, but with the round pipe you could bend it in any direction. Ed: What happened, I think, was that WED Enterprises really wanted to be the guys who designed things. They decided that they should design the track and elected to use angle iron. They built a prototype track out of angle iron, and in typical Disney fashion they put it in a beautiful setting. They made a kind of Japanese garden around it. They brought in sand, and raked patterns in it with little walkways. In the meantime, we had a short little prototype in Mountain View, and we, on the other hand, were just tacking stuff together. If the supports lap each other, so be it, because we’re going to wreck it tomorrow anyway, or cut it off and do it some other way. It had maybe sixty feet of track, so we could see the down-travel and an up-section at the far end. We had a squeeze brake to stop the prototype vehicle. And that’s all we built. Anyway, they invited us to come down and look at their prototype. It was an absolute disaster. Joe Fowler was there, and he just looked at us and shook his head. When he got the opportunity, he said, “Don’t worry boys the job is yours.”
[...]
Eventually we would make a choice between polyurethane and nylon wheels, because we sure weren’t going to run steel wheels on a steel rail, the noise being the biggest single factor. We had our necks out a long, long way, because no one had done it before, and DuPont said, “We just don’t know.” DuPont was the primary supplier of polyurethane at the time. Polyurethane came from Germany as spoils of war after World War II, and DuPont bought the rights from the federal government. Polyurethane rolls with a lot less effort than rubber does. A rubber tire deforms differently and loses more energy to heat than polyurethane. There’s a physical and chemical difference that makes it better in that respect. We were conducting tests on small six- or eight-foot long pipe sections. We were loading them and running them twenty-four hours a day. We were doing the same with nylon and other things. For early tests on the Disneyland site, we were running nylon wheels, but we eventually made the decision for polyurethane, because we had DuPont’s assurance, off the record, that they would help us if we got into a real bind. They had a stake in it too. So we went with polyurethane, and eventually, that was the material of choice. Disney was going to design the sled, but nothing happened. They were just up to their necks on the design of the ride at that time. I decided to go ahead and mock it up so we would have something to work with at least. They said it had to be something like a bobsled, and that’s all we got.

Reynolds, Robert (1999-04-07). Roller Coasters, Flumes and Flying Saucers (Kindle Locations 481-525). . Kindle Edition.

The chapter continues with more as well about the design of the block system and boosters.

Ed and Karl were the brain and muscle behind the Matterhorn, the flume rides, and many others. That's why they are in the IAAPA Hall of Fame. Not just because they built what someone told them too... Not taking away from Bob Gurr - but history is on Arrow's side.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I apologize for my contribution to thread drift....

I think if Universal had announced more, then it might have had an effect, but they only announced Transformers. I wasn't expecting the Potter announcement but was surprised that they didn't announce a little more.

Do you think they wait to announce these things for fear that people will postpone a potential trip until something new opens? If you are a huge Potter fan and are planning a trip to Uni this summer to see Potter, but they announce the expansion opening in 2014 or 2015 maybe you push the trip back. Not an issue for us fanatics who go regularly, but maybe for the more casual fans or maybe I am just reading too much into this.
 

WED99

Well-Known Member
You might want to check.. there is reason why Ed and Karl are the ones in the IAAPA hall of fame - not Bob Gurr
http://www.iaapa.org/about-iaapa/awards/hall-of-fame/hof-bios

Here's a snip from the book - I highly suggest you get it. It's only $3 for kindle...

The chapter continues with more as well about the design of the block system and boosters.

Ed and Karl were the brain and muscle behind the Matterhorn, the flume rides, and many others. That's why they are in the IAAPA Hall of Fame. Not just because they built what someone told them too... Not taking away from Bob Gurr - but history is on Arrow's side.

Another of Bob’s innovations was the first tubular steel roller coaster. Walt had told him that they were going to build a Matterhorn roller coaster, with two coasters inside and that he was to design the cars and the track. This was a year from opening day. He was the first rider. Walt said “You designed it, you ride it!”

Source: http://www.wdwfacts.com/2011/04/03/walts-wheel-man-bob-gurr/

It seems to be a matter of opinion and depending on what information people have heard that decides who really designed it.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
It seems to be a matter of opinion and depending on what information people have heard that decides who really designed it.

Another thing you'll learn.. hersay vs first hand interviews with cited statements. Oh, and all these 'fact' sites about WDW tend to be full of jibjab lacking any actual citations. In general.. they are poop.
 

nytimez

Well-Known Member
Another of Bob’s innovations was the first tubular steel roller coaster. Walt had told him that they were going to build a Matterhorn roller coaster, with two coasters inside and that he was to design the cars and the track. This was a year from opening day. He was the first rider. Walt said “You designed it, you ride it!”

Source: http://www.wdwfacts.com/2011/04/03/walts-wheel-man-bob-gurr/

It seems to be a matter of opinion and depending on what information people have heard that decides who really designed it.

Facts are not a matter of opinion. Gurr has done many things... but listen to the other voices here, they are giving you good information and closing your mind to it will only hurt you as your pursue your goals.
 

WED99

Well-Known Member
Another thing you'll learn.. hersay vs first hand interviews with cited statements. Oh, and all these 'fact' sites about WDW tend to be full of jibjab lacking any actual citations. In general.. they are poop.
Facts are not a matter of opinion. Gurr has done many things... but listen to the other voices here, they are giving you good information and closing your mind to it will only hurt you as your pursue your goals.
I'm going to make this easier than sourcing information and just email bob now :) let you know what he replies ;)
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I can understand WDW1974s points on Imagineering not being what it used to be. But hey you never know, maybe people like WED99 can make a big impact on how imagineering works when they make it.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to work for WDI as an ultimate goal or a dream, especially when you're still a teen and you don't have the experience that tells you otherwise.

But there's really only a handful of possibilities when someone decides that's the only path for them and they become obsessed with the idea of being able to say 'I'm an Imagineer' to which most folks would say 'a what?'

The best one is what I'd advise any person who is 15. Decide what you are passionate at and if it's something that you are talented at, pursue an education in said field. Try and be the best and don't place it in a Disney construct. Be the best you that you can be (remember when Oprah was on the TV and would say things like this?) When you graduate college, don't even apply with Disney. Go to some other company and hone those skills in the real world. Build a body of work. Maybe work for multiple companies. ... Then, when you're coveted for your abilities, either they'll come to you or you can go to them with a real portfolio.

That is by FAR the way to become an Imagineer. It still doesn't mean it will happen, but at least you'll be a success and a happy contributing member of society, either way.

Now, another way that I wouldn't advise is that you just put everything into a Disney hat. Decide that just getting in the door is the way to go and if you want to design theme parks there's nothing wrong with being an IPer/CPer and then simply a CM at say WDW. Convince yourself as you clean toilets in Tomorrowland or work a cash register at DAK or take orders at The Wave that you're already in the door and that it will mean something. And as the years pass, you'll realize what a waste of a lifetime you've made and that those other doors are not easy to open. ... I actually have an Aussie friend, who isn't all that much older than you. He dreams of being an animator and has some talent. He's already traveled from the bottom of the world to work at WDW (in resorts) and when he finishes school plans on moving back to O-Town and 'doing anything at Disney' to get himself in the door. The sad thing is that is exactly the path to -- at best -- sitting backstage and copying the art of others for merchandise or maybe working a concierge position since dumb Americans love accents, makes them think the person is smarter than they are. (Oh, and to make things better he's planning on moving in with another dude who I'm not sure he realizes is in love with him. Should be a fun time!)

Finally, there is one other way to get into WDI ... but I'm not sure you'd understand or if it's even appropriate to discuss, but you'd be sure to get the point in the end. Sadly, many young fanbois would also jump at the chance to get in through through that backdoor.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
No not really. Life's easy. If you tell yourself it's hard, you end up sad.
Honestly, just try it.

Honestly, as a child by the law who still has to be taken care of by his parents/family, it is amazingly cocky, condescending and dumb of you to think you know what life is all about.

No one, including people who go on to do amazing things, knew what life was all about at 15. You don't either.
I admire your passion and tenacity, but you lose it when you speak like you've experienced anything at such a young age.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I know you deliberately put in the "existing park" caveat in there, but Kilimanjaro Safaris is only 4 years newer than Tower of Terror. Expedition Everest had the potential to achieve this Raising the Bar, but there were corners cut beyond just the broken yeti.

Absolutely!
 

menamechris

Well-Known Member
Honestly, as a child by the law who still has to be taken care of by his parents/family, it is amazingly cocky, condescending and dumb of you to think you know what life is all about.

No one, including people who go on to do amazing things, knew what life was all about at 15. You don't either.
I admire your passion and tenacity, but you lose it when you speak like you've experienced anything at such a young age.

Future Imagineers....

superbabies2.jpg
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
There is nothing wrong with wanting to work for WDI as an ultimate goal or a dream, especially when you're still a teen and you don't have the experience that tells you otherwise.

But there's really only a handful of possibilities when someone decides that's the only path for them and they become obsessed with the idea of being able to say 'I'm an Imagineer' to which most folks would say 'a what?'

The best one is what I'd advise any person who is 15. Decide what you are passionate at and if it's something that you are talented at, pursue an education in said field. Try and be the best and don't place it in a Disney construct. Be the best you that you can be (remember when Oprah was on the TV and would say things like this?) When you graduate college, don't even apply with Disney. Go to some other company and hone those skills in the real world. Build a body of work. Maybe work for multiple companies. ... Then, when you're coveted for your abilities, either they'll come to you or you can go to them with a real portfolio.

That is by FAR the way to become an Imagineer. It still doesn't mean it will happen, but at least you'll be a success and a happy contributing member of society, either way.

Now, another way that I wouldn't advise is that you just put everything into a Disney hat. Decide that just getting in the door is the way to go and if you want to design theme parks there's nothing wrong with being an IPer/CPer and then simply a CM at say WDW. Convince yourself as you clean toilets in Tomorrowland or work a cash register at DAK or take orders at The Wave that you're already in the door and that it will mean something. And as the years pass, you'll realize what a waste of a lifetime you've made and that those other doors are not easy to open. ... I actually have an Aussie friend, who isn't all that much older than you. He dreams of being an animator and has some talent. He's already traveled from the bottom of the world to work at WDW (in resorts) and when he finishes school plans on moving back to O-Town and 'doing anything at Disney' to get himself in the door. The sad thing is that is exactly the path to -- at best -- sitting backstage and copying the art of others for merchandise or maybe working a concierge position since dumb Americans love accents, makes them think the person is smarter than they are. (Oh, and to make things better he's planning on moving in with another dude who I'm not sure he realizes is in love with him. Should be a fun time!)

Finally, there is one other way to get into WDI ... but I'm not sure you'd understand or if it's even appropriate to discuss, but you'd be sure to get the point in the end. Sadly, many young fanbois would also jump at the chance to get in through through that backdoor.
Wow, that's one of your finests posts. Shame it's buried at page 28 of an obscure thread.

One ought to email it to many a young gal or guy.
 

WED99

Well-Known Member
Honestly, as a child by the law who still has to be taken care of by his parents/family, it is amazingly cocky, condescending and dumb of you to think you know what life is all about.

No one, including people who go on to do amazing things, knew what life was all about at 15. You don't either.
I admire your passion and tenacity, but you lose it when you speak like you've experienced anything at such a young age.
So just cause I'm 15 I sit in my house all day playing video games and haven't experienced anything? Times have changed mate. I'm very well educated with how the world works. I've watched my mum struggle but keep a positive mind to get through things and I've watched my dad turn his low pay life into a very successful career. Life's as hard as you make it, no matter what anyone says I will always think that. Thanks to my loving parents I know one thing about my life...

I can be an Imagineer if I want to be, no questions asked. But I will have to work hard for it, but that's easy.

Now if you don't mind, I'd rather talk about Disney on this forum. Not get life advice and insults.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
So, I think they'll show off Avatar concept art and plans on December 7th. What about you guys?

Absolutely. That will be the "big" news.

Other things might be additional concept art for the 7DMT and the Princess Fairytale Hall. Maybe information on Splitsville. And probably some info on the new shows at MK.

Nothing ground breaking. I don't expect to hear anything about DHS (which I think they'll save for D23).
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Wow, that's one of your finests posts. Shame it's buried at page 28 of an obscure thread.

One ought to email it to many a young gal or guy.

Thanks. Not sure it will get through ... but that is the three ways of getting into WDI.

But time to go enjoy SNL (opening sketch was funny as hell!)
 

WED99

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. That will be the "big" news.

Other things might be additional concept art for the 7DMT and the Princess Fairytale Hall. Maybe information on Splitsville. And probably some info on the new shows at MK.

Nothing ground breaking. I don't expect to hear anything about DHS (which I think they'll save for D23).
Yeh, too early for DHS
 

WED99

Well-Known Member
I honestly don't think the kid is trolling -- but he is clueless, and it's not entirely his fault. Every 15-year-old boy thinks he knows everything, and no one can tell him differently.
If your gonna call me clueless say it to me not someone else.
 

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