Western way park/5th gate

tman2000

Member
So, imagineering has crept into rumors. How about I add my concept for an alternative '5th gate'.

Rather than a physical 5th gate/new parking lot etc. I propose a 1/2 gate.

No, not the night kingdom or any other $300 entry fee experience. I mean something like this:

7 seas lagoon becomes a Magic kingdom 'area'. Hotel guests enter free, others require a day pass to one of the parks. This area becomes something like the boardwalk. A walking/lifestyle area for families. Seamlessly connected (no gate) is the MK. Now what they'd do is say add a fully realized 'adventure land' half park. You can seamlessly enter it and explore it and shop and eat there with an Mk pass, but all the rides require an adventure land or park hopper pass. And vice versa. Staying at a hotel, you can buy an adventure land pass, not ride rides at MK, but still walk around the ambiance of MK. At once, the overall experience is enhanced, and capacity increased, at minimal cost.

So, imagine a similar set up for an Epcot area. Buy a marvel land pass and get access to rides at HS and you can visit Star Wars land no rides though. Or, buy a Star Wars land pass, no marvel rides, but you can visit marvel or go get dinner at Epcot.

Much more realistic than a full 5th gate, would encourage significant expansion, but would require a paradigm shift. I think the magic+ tech can facilitate this, as a 'gate' is a product of 1950s technology.

This is like the old ticket system, but instead of confusion about which rides are which - separation between substantial 'zones' (think super lands) would be very obvious. This could allow for differential pricing, like the old ticket system - but zone based. Epcot future world is a $40 ticket, marvel is $60, hopper is $90. One ticket, or hotel attendance gives walking access everywhere.

So my 2 cents - maybe we might expect a 1/2 gate
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
The third way is the interest in Marvel drops to a point where Universal no longer wants it.

There are other ways too. They could negotiate some kind of a swap/trade of Intellectual Properties that would be in the best interest of both parties, like maybe, Avatar?

Universal is on a roll right now and for the first time in quite a while, they have a good stable of characters and stories they can build attractions on. And in some of those, they actually have a hand up on Disney, except for the Marvel Avengers characters which as we all know are extremely popular at the moment. But, in 10 years, the story could be completely different.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
OK, I admit I am a little confused. They cannot use characters currently featured at UNI per statements above. I do not recall seeing Iron Man at UNI or any attraction featuring Thor or Captain America other than Character spots. What about Hawkeye, Daredevil, Amazoness. . .
Iron man, Captain America and Thor ARE featured in IOA/Marvel Super Hero Island... as long as their likeness is depicted, Disney has no rights to use them in WDW...Including the "family" or "group"... Iron Man, Captain America, Thor are part of the Avengers, therefore, anyone who was an Avenger is off limits... Same for X-Men...

Hawkeye is an Avenger, therfore off limts... As Tim said, almost every marvel character has at one time or another been an Avenger, teamed with the Avengers, or X-Men... Basically, all the characters anyone cares about (or knows) are all off limits to Disney...
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
Disney didn't own Marvel at the time and Marvel had no interest in opening their own park. It's standard contract language. If Universal had bought Lucasfilm instead of Disney, I'm sure there's language in the licensing deals that would have protected Indy and Star Tours.

My point was that the contract is very tight and protective for Universal in the sense that there is no room for Disney or anybody else to even think about using any of those east of the Mississippi. It may well be standard, but it's still a very tightly binding deal that bodes well for Universal, especially now with Disney marketing the Marvel characters for them. It's not exactly free advertising because they're paying licensing fees, but still, it's pretty good for them.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Yeah, whoever wrote that contract for Universal did a bang up, and left very little, if any wiggle room for Disney or anybody else.

You have to remember that when the agreement was made, Marvel had decalred bankruptcy and was basically looking for cash any way they could get it. They were in no position to bargain with Universal, so they basically gave up the farm. They had no expectation they would ever have any need for the theme park rights to their characters as they never planned to build a theme park much less be purchased by a corporation that already operated several of them.

At the time, it was a good deal for both companies. Now, it remains a good deal albeit one I'm sure Disney wishes it could renegotiate/negate.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
There are other ways too. They could negotiate some kind of a swap/trade of Intellectual Properties that would be in the best interest of both parties, like maybe, Avatar?

Universal is on a roll right now and for the first time in quite a while, they have a good stable of characters and stories they can build attractions on. And in some of those, they actually have a hand up on Disney, except for the Marvel Avengers characters which as we all know are extremely popular at the moment. But, in 10 years, the story could be completely different.

It is my understanding the Uni was approched by Cameron, but they were not interested in Avatar.
 

DManRightHere

Well-Known Member
I'm skimming through that contract...some of it is talking about minumum requirements for to build a theme park. It is referring to Universal correct? So it would be more likely for Universal to build a dedicated park rather than Disney. Am I misinterpreting this?
 

Sully83

Member
The third way is the interest in Marvel drops to a point where Universal no longer wants it.


In most situations then yes that would be a third way, but I doubt even then they would because why give disney a chance to revive the interest. Having the theme park rights is not just an offensive card that universal has to possibly make great attractions for their parks, its also a defensive card to stop their neighbor from being able to actually use the IP that the neighbor owns to better their parks.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
In most situations then yes that would be a third way, but I doubt even then they would because why give disney a chance to revive the interest. Having the theme park rights is not just an offensive card that universal has to possibly make great attractions for their parks, its also a defensive card to stop their neighbor from being able to actually use the IP that the neighbor owns to better their parks.

The problem with that scenario is that Uni can't just sit on the rights, they need to continue to maintain the Marvel area. If interest drops signficantly for Marvel (don't know if or when it will) they wouldn't want to tie up an entire corner of the park with a franchise people are no longer interested in.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
The problem with that scenario is that Uni can't just sit on the rights, they need to continue to maintain the Marvel area. If interest drops signficantly for Marvel (don't know if or when it will) they wouldn't want to tie up an entire corner of the park with a franchise people are no longer interested in.

They have an entire area of the same park dedicated to obscure cartoon strips. I don't see Spider-man ever being less popular than Haggar the Horrible or Dudley Doo Right.
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
I'm skimming through that contract...some of it is talking about minumum requirements for to build a theme park. It is referring to Universal correct? So it would be more likely for Universal to build a dedicated park rather than Disney. Am I misinterpreting this?
Disney/Marvel has approval rights for any new additions, so nobody is building anything.
 

Sully83

Member
The problem with that scenario is that Uni can't just sit on the rights, they need to continue to maintain the Marvel area. If interest drops signficantly for Marvel (don't know if or when it will) they wouldn't want to tie up an entire corner of the park with a franchise people are no longer interested in.

They can find cheaps ways around that by maintaining say meet and greets and go to smaller dumbed down rides I think. Even if one day marvel is not as popular for the masses as it is now, there are still their fanboys that universal will be able to keep some sort of presence in the park to combat disney.
 

NowInc

Well-Known Member
You have to remember that when the agreement was made, Marvel had decalred bankruptcy and was basically looking for cash any way they could get it. They were in no position to bargain with Universal, so they basically gave up the farm. They had no expectation they would ever have any need for the theme park rights to their characters as they never planned to build a theme park much less be purchased by a corporation that already operated several of them.

At the time, it was a good deal for both companies. Now, it remains a good deal albeit one I'm sure Disney wishes it could renegotiate/negate.


Correct. Some will also recall that originally the plan was for a DC Land. However, at that time....Marvel licences were way cheaper.
 

Sully83

Member
There are other ways too. They could negotiate some kind of a swap/trade of Intellectual Properties that would be in the best interest of both parties, like maybe, Avatar?

Universal is on a roll right now and for the first time in quite a while, they have a good stable of characters and stories they can build attractions on. And in some of those, they actually have a hand up on Disney, except for the Marvel Avengers characters which as we all know are extremely popular at the moment. But, in 10 years, the story could be completely different.

The only thing I could truely see disney not owning outright but owning the theme parks rights and possibly being able to swap with universal would be if disney were ever able to get the tolkien estate IP theme park rights, but if that were to come true it might be smarter for disney still to build marvel in cali and overseas and then use star wars in florida and then use the tolkien rights in florida then making a swap.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Disney/Marvel has approval rights for any new additions, so nobody is building anything.

This is an interesting point. The contract says "reasonable approval" and defines it as such:

"Whenever Marvel has “reasonable” rights for rejection of approval hereunder, the basic criteria to be used by Marvel may include inconsistency with (i) basic story line, (ii) the powers, (iii) basic personality traits, (iv) physical appearance (including clothing or costume), and/or (v) living habitat or environment relating to such character as portrayed in Marvel’s exploitation of such character in comic books or other products for the particular time period being depicted by MCA. "

This would lead me to believe that Disney couldn't stop Uni for building additons just because they didn't want them to do it.
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
This is an interesting point. The contract says "reasonable approval" and defines it as such:

"Whenever Marvel has “reasonable” rights for rejection of approval hereunder, the basic criteria to be used by Marvel may include inconsistency with (i) basic story line, (ii) the powers, (iii) basic personality traits, (iv) physical appearance (including clothing or costume), and/or (v) living habitat or environment relating to such character as portrayed in Marvel’s exploitation of such character in comic books or other products for the particular time period being depicted by MCA. "

This would lead me to believe that Disney couldn't stop Uni for building additons just because they didn't want them to do it.
I agree in principle, but practically speaking they'd stretch the situation to fit one of those criteria at least enough to have a credible threat of causing major delays and major legal fees.
 

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