WDW's non-MK parks' identities fading?

[EpcotServo]

A little late...but I will chime in...

My answer is no.

The Studios is still based off movies/Hollywood, EPCOT is still futuristic(for the most part) and ENTERTAINS AND INFORMS and keeps getting better, Animal Kingdom--I can not think of any attraction that has nothing to do with animals that are either extinct or living.

All of those things are what the parks are made for. And I love them each because they are all different,have great themes,entertain and inform.

They are what a Disney Park should be.

As much as I love Epcot fans fighting to the death Star Trek-Episode-Style, This ^ is true. All the parks are great. Thread over.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

SSE
LWtL
UoE
M:S
Innoventions


The Seas are great,but not too futuristic. There is TONS to be learned via plaques and CMs.

For the little tikes there is Turtle talk. I really think that is great for them to ask questions and get answers from a character they know and love.

Ah, then we agree.

Here's what I think:

1) Theme parks shouldn't have "rules" that can be broken by even the slightest lean.

2) The Seas is awesome.

No rules= mess. You want anything, any environment encroachable, on another one? That would be an overload. It is my belief, that though Disney Parks are highly themed environments, they do have a delicate balance of thematic principles that allow them to function. Without them, you have a over themed mess.

1. I think we are talking about two different things. I'm talking about mainly Turtle Talk. I don't consider the omnimover to be the real "meat" of the pavilion. It's just the weenie to trick you into learning.

2. To me this seem completely contradictory to #3 where you say that we should do away with the old model.

3. They abandoned it with the Land and the Seas and look how well that went over. Some of the very same discussion we are having now occured 4 years ago when the Land reopened.

4. I was a dork. The Living Seas was probably one of the more dorkier pavilions. Given that I fully acknowledge my dorkiness, I feel the Seas now is better for everyone else because I can see the same dorky wonderment I had in kids who are obiviously higher on their school's social ladder than I was. That says a lot, a whole lot. It says that even though the Seas has figuratively spit in EPCOT Center's eye. EPCOT Center needed to be humbled a little bit to be able to connect with the general public.

5."Sorry duuuude, your question is not in keeping with the spirit of EPCOT and this pavilion. That little dudette over there is gonna coast you over to the dedication plaque. Read that and come back when you have a rightous question about the future of the seas and its affect on humanity. Cha!"

Numbers:

1. OK, then, now I see what you are saying, and I agree. However, using that as a weenie doesn't work...It's the headliner. That's what people go to the Pavilion for.
2. That's not what I said at all. You can still par respect and give nostalgic value to a old style of attraction in a new one. :shrug: It just needs to be made modern. I don't see how using/modifying the old model of the Pavilions of EPCOT to fit a new audience is contradictory. What's needed, is respect for the older way of doing things, while creating something new. And we've hgad this talk before. Remember Old and New groups? :wave:
3. Abandoned it in The Land? I would think they furthered it! A diverse pavilion in it's draw to demographics OPENED it's demographics. Nemo just changed the Demo's from Adults and dorks D) to all kiddies all the time.
4. Old and New. Again. They can make it appeal to us dorks (I prefer the term Fanboi, or FanMan..) and make it appeal to the kiddies.:shrug: Don't get your point here. Seems vague.
5. HAH!:lol: Well, that would never happen, but it would be nice if Crush prompted the audience to think a bit more scientifically? Not shoving it down their throats, but to use the awesome Marty Sklar quote: "Educate people, but don't tell them you are doing it". Knowing you, Jake, you'll say that The Seas already does that. Which is good. I'm happy about that, and didn't expect to see that there on my fisrt visit in 06. However...Like I've said, it all comes down to thematics and fitting/conforming attractions to a central theme or ideal of EPCOT. Be it EPCOT Center's originals, or Epcot's newer, more modern ones, it would make for a more cohesive experience.

As much as I love Epcot fans fighting to the death Star Trek-Episode-Style, This ^ is true. All the parks are great. Thread over.

OK, but why defend the mediocrity? Why not ask for better?

I'm happy with EPCOT. Really, I am. Magic Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom too. I'm not "worried" or fretting over the parks. It doesn't detract from my experiences in them.

However, it is only human nature to think of things we have liked better, or things we would like to see better in places we go.

That's what's to be done here.:wave:

 

[mcjaco]

No rules= mess. You want anything, any environment encroachable, on another one? That would be an overload. It is my belief, that though Disney Parks are highly themed environments, they do have a delicate balance of thematic principles that allow them to function. Without them, you have a over themed mess.

See this is where we're not going to win an argument with you. The rules for EPCOT have changed. They aren't the same as they are on the all mighty powerful plaque you like to refer too. FW has moved in a different direction for ways of inspring, learning, and entertaining. When you grasp that, then you'll understand our points of view. The '82 rules are gone.

OK, but why defend the mediocrity? Why not ask for better?

Mediocrity? Soarin' is mediocrity, and look at how much people love that ride. Nemo is cleverly put together, and uses some incredible technology. I'm still in awe over the projections. I'd say Nemo is the best overlay done in FW. Test Track? M:S? Ellen?

However, it is only human nature to think of things we have liked better, or things we would like to see better in places we go.

True. But at some point you realize the sum of all the parts, and understand that this is the best they could do with what they were given, and it still entertains, inspires the kiddies, and keeps people coming back. Which is ultimately their goal.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

See this is where we're not going to win an argument with you. The rules for EPCOT have changed. They aren't the same as they are on the all mighty powerful plaque you like to refer too. FW has moved in a different direction for ways of inspring, learning, and entertaining. When you grasp that, then you'll understand our points of view. The '82 rules are gone.




Mediocrity? Soarin' is mediocrity, and look at how much people love that ride. Nemo is cleverly put together, and uses some incredible technology. I'm still in awe over the projections. I'd say Nemo is the best overlay done in FW. Test Track? M:S? Ellen?



True. But at some point you realize the sum of all the parts, and understand that this is the best they could do with what they were given, and it still entertains, inspires the kiddies, and keeps people coming back. Which is ultimately their goal.

Oh, I totally know that the EPCOT 82 "rules" are gone. As they should be...They are outdated. However, shouldn't the new "rules" mirror those of the new? The only one they have really broken is the Theme rule here.:shrug:

It's kinda like amending the constitution. It's changed, but it still provides for the framework of justice and democracy.


:lookaroun:lol:


Do that for EPCOT. Change how things are conveyed, not the whole deal.

(Did I really just make that comparison? Yes, yes I did.:king::lol


Mediocre? I wouldn't say that about Soarin'. I'm amazed at that, too.



And like I have said, yes, they HAVE met the goal here, in a partial way here. I think it could have been totally realized if they were to appeal to the whole demographic and taken a different, more original approach.

 

[SirGoofy]

No rules= mess. You want anything, any environment encroachable, on another one? That would be an overload. It is my belief, that though Disney Parks are highly themed environments, they do have a delicate balance of thematic principles that allow them to function. Without them, you have a over themed mess.

Theme is different than rules.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Theme is different than rules.

Theme defines rules and visa-versa, IMHO.

 

[_Scar]

As long as a park follows its theme, then isn't it following its "rules" like said above by EE.


I still think each park has its own identity, and is very good at underlining that identity.

 

[SirGoofy]

A theme is the frontier, adventure, etc.

Rules are saying you can't build this, this, this and this because it only kind of fits.

 

[urbanvegan]

A theme is the frontier, adventure, etc.

Rules are saying you can't build this, this, this and this because it only kind of fits.

I agree; "rules" are trumped by theme. If these rules were so strict, things like Splash Mountain would not fit at all. It is fantasy, and has just about nothing to do with the frontier. Thematically, it fits the the overall rustic aspect of the land.

 

[SirGoofy]

I agree; "rules" are trumped by theme. If these rules were so strict, things like Splash Mountain would not fit at all. It is fantasy, and has just about nothing to do with the frontier. Thematically, it fits the the overall rustic aspect of the land.

Exactly!:wave:

 

[Figment632]

Exactly!:wave:

Look at it this way Goofy would you like it if they put the Jungle Book characters in JC. It would technicaly fit but I bet you wouldn't be for it.

 

[SirGoofy]

Look at it this way Goofy would you like it if they put the Jungle Book characters in JC. It would technicaly fit but I bet you wouldn't be for it.

I would complain that it wasn't needed, not that it doesn't fit.:wave:

 

[Figment632]

I would complain that it wasn't needed, not that it doesn't fit.:wave:

See I can't argue this point well done sir. While IMO Nemo doesn't fit in FW you can argue that he was needed.

 

[HMF]

I don't see how slapping Nemo all over TLS is the right direction?

Tacking Nemo on TLS happened in 2006. Someday' when it's popularity dies down they might change it again. My opinion on the Nemo thing is if you use these characters to help teach kids about The Seas go for it and put them in the APPROPRIATE places (An exhibit on Clown fish etc.) I actually liked Turtle Talk when it debuted. The problem begins when you re-theme the ENTIRE Pavilion to revolve around Nemo. Rename the Pavillion The Seas with Nemo & Friends' Replace the Sea Cabs with a Nemo Ride. remove the Hydrolators and completely shatter the illusion that you are in an underwater Seabase and remove most educational value and how it relates to the rest of the themes explored in Epcot is where the problem lies.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

As long as a park follows its theme, then isn't it following its "rules" like said above by EE.


I still think each park has its own identity, and is very good at underlining that identity.

But this pavilion isn't. That's the point. :shrug:

A theme is the frontier, adventure, etc.

Rules are saying you can't build this, this, this and this because it only kind of fits.

And that's what makes Nemo stand out in a bad way, IMHO. Where is this relevant to the future?

This is the equivalent of plopping down a Giant Hat on a 1930's Hollywood Main Street.:lookaroun

I agree; "rules" are trumped by theme. If these rules were so strict, things like Splash Mountain would not fit at all. It is fantasy, and has just about nothing to do with the frontier. Thematically, it fits the the overall rustic aspect of the land.

So...How does Nemo fit in? The "Sea Base" is futuristic looking, yes, but where is the lonk to the actual message?

Tacking Nemo on TLS happened in 2006. Someday' when it's popularity dies down they might change it again. My opinion on the Nemo thing is if you use these characters to help teach kids about The Seas go for it and put them in the APPROPRIATE places (An exhibit on Clown fish etc.) I actually liked Turtle Talk when it debuted. The problem begins when you re-theme the ENTIRE Pavilion to revolve around Nemo. Rename the Pavillion The Seas with Nemo & Friends' Replace the Sea Cabs with a Nemo Ride. remove the Hydrolators and completely shatter the illusion that you are in an underwater Seabase and remove most educational value and how it relates to the rest of the themes explored in Epcot is where the problem lies.

Winnar.:wave:

 

[_Scar]

The LSwNaF is educational.

Maybe not futuristic, but the pavillion IS educational. One theme that has actually stuck around the entire time of Epcot.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The LSwNaF is educational.

Maybe not futuristic, but the pavillion IS educational. One theme that has actually stuck around the entire time of Epcot.

And that's fine....But it's FUTURE WORLD.:brick::ROFLOL:

 

[urbanvegan]

And that's fine....But it's FUTURE WORLD.:brick::ROFLOL:

Maybe "Finding Nemo" takes place in, let's say 2010.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Maybe "Finding Nemo" takes place in, let's say 2010.

Yes, that filter thing that had the laser scan was just so futuristic.:lookaroun:lol:

 

[WDW Vacationer]

Yes, that filter thing that had the laser scan was just so futuristic.:lookaroun:lol:

Exactly!

Is it futuristic-just a little.

Does it fit-yes

EPCOT is to be futuristic,entertain and inform. EVERYTHING should entertain,but not everything needs to be futuristic AND Educational. As long as it serves the purpose somehow.