WDW to Raise All Buffet Prices By Almost 50%?

[ford91exploder]

Disney very much has a safety net of locals, AP holders, and DVC members.

WDW profitability will falter during the next recession; it has every previous recession. When that happens, Disney will offer big discounts to its "safety net" at which point all will be forgiven.

"Wow, they're offering 40% room discounts" or "Gee, they're offering 3 extra months with an AP renewal" or "OMG, there's free dining for spring break!"

Businesses know they can mistreat brand loyalists time-and-again since it takes one good offer to restore that brand loyalty to full strength.

The long-term concern is creating new brand loyalists; consumers who can be counted on to buy the product for years or even decades. Disney's current theme park strategy doesn't do that to the same extent as before, but that won't boomerang until Iger is long gone. Basically, the current brand loyalists (i.e. we who post regularly on these threads) will have to start dying off before WDW will really be in a world of hurt.

I'm not so sure about that conclusion, As for me I let my premier passport (good on BOTH coasts) expire last year and am putting that money into retirement, DVC recently I have not rented a unit which DID not have major issues related to upkeep and now I can sell for a modest profit.

Other than DVC/RunDisney in January no park plans, and later when I would have done DVC we are going to Jackson Hole for the eclipse along with our telescopes and such. Last couple of DVC stays have been Disney Parks free,

Used DVC as a base and did things like charter an airboat for a couple of days which was an AMAZING experience which I will do again Iearned more about the everglades in 16 hours than I did in a lifetime also learned that the Airboat was a Canadian invention which was a bit of a surprise.

I very much doubt I'm the only one feeling this way and I've been a 'too loyal' customer for 30+ years

However I do agree that Disney's long term problem is they are NOT creating long term repeat customers like us because of their current policies, These people are ONE AND DONE,

People like me who remember Disney's Gold Key where you could eat 3 meals a day and do ANYTHING on property without an upcharge - think a landlocked Sandals and it was not terribly expensive either. These are the kind of premier experiences which create lifetime customers not FP+'s and 60 dollar buffets reserved 60 days in advance.

 

[Florida_is_hot]

The problem is Disney like all companies care about profit over you. If they can increase the prices and still fill the restaurants they do not care if you are loyal been going to WDW for 30 years or it is your first visit, they just take your money. I used to go to WDW twice a year and I am not kidding myself I will be back but I do not plan on returning for a long time, I am sick of the prices and I hate the security checks (Welcome to the Happiest Place On Earth, but first we got to make sure you are not a terrorist)..... but give me 10 years or so I will go back. You think Disney cares ? As long as they fill the parks, they will charge whatever they can get away with and careless if I return or anybody else goes back. Two choices either avoid the place until they build enough you just have to go back, or pay up; complaining will get you no where.

 

[Nubs70]

I agree with the general sentiment. Disney, by and large, doesn't seem interested in repeat visitors lately. I just think Dave is the resident parrot around here. Repeating what others have already said in a fractionally different way and acting like it's some great thought he's come up with. It's not exactly a mind altering thought to say, if everything goes **** up, then WDW is going to suffer.

No, he is simply restating the obvious because many fail to understand the concept.

 

[xdan0920]

No, he is simply restating the obvious because many fail to understand the concept.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[AEfx]

Wow. Great analysis. If everything goes horribly wrong, WDW will suffer. Holy Moly, photographers is so smrt.

He simply understands the nuances to the discussion, which I think you don't quite get.

To bring it back around to this talk of a buffet hike, this very well could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. The one contingent DIsney has been able to keep as their "base" is these Disney Moms who plan their entire trips around these meals. They are the ones that keep the restaurants so busy and booked months out. Pretty much the entire system depends on their continued patronage.

No matter how you cut it, for folks that do these meals daily (some even more than once a day), even if they get "free dining" or not - this would add a thousand bucks to a family vacation budget. That's gonna hit these folks where it hurts. One reason they don't seemingly care about the stagnancy of attractions (pixie dusters), etc. is because they spend hours a day going to and from and experiencing these meals. If they start cutting these, the trips they have become accustomed to will change quite a bit.

The alienation of their repeat, regular, base consumers has been eroding for years because they were so focused on catering to this group that now is going to be alienated themselves.

 

[GoofGoof]

Disney very much has a safety net of locals, AP holders, and DVC members.

WDW profitability will falter during the next recession; it has every previous recession. When that happens, Disney will offer big discounts to its "safety net" at which point all will be forgiven.

"Wow, they're offering 40% room discounts" or "Gee, they're offering 3 extra months with an AP renewal" or "OMG, there's free dining for spring break!" or "They're offering free park days with a 4-day ticket!"

Businesses know they can mistreat brand loyalists time-and-again since it takes one good offer to restore that brand loyalty to full strength.

The long-term concern is creating new brand loyalists; consumers who can be counted on to buy the product for years or even decades. Disney's current theme park strategy doesn't do that to the same extent as before, but that won't boomerang until Iger is long gone. Basically, the current brand loyalists (i.e. we who post regularly on these threads) will have to start dying off before WDW will really be in a world of hurt.

This is the piece people are missing. If raising prices is pushing people away and you need to increase volume you cut costs and the people come back. Basic economics. Universal is building some great things at their parks in FL, but the overwhelming reason that a lot of locals prefer Uni to WDW is the bargain APs. IMHO if you priced WDW FL resident APs the same as Uni I think you would see a lot of locals come back.

I agree that their new strategy doesn't include catering to the frequent return visitors. I do think they would still have a lot of people who could easily become brand loyalists if they get hooked with discounts. How many people do you see on this board who are hooked and their first visit was less than a decade ago? For a lot of us the stuff at WDW can be a bit stale with new construction moving at a snails pace and we have seen better days at the parks, but for new visitors it can still be a "magical" place to visit. I know we hear reports of new guests complaining and being confused by the complexity of planning, but I would guess the majority of new visitors are pretty happy with their experience (even if you want to call them rubes). One of the main reasons they probably won't come back next year is the high price.

 

[Rutt]

The dining plan change was the major thing that prompted the rumours of price change.

Also the 50% price increase would take some buffets into the $50+ prices I said

So essentially it's the same rumour. Thanks.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I'm not so sure about that conclusion, As for me I let my premier passport (good on BOTH coasts) expire last year and am putting that money into retirement, DVC recently I have not rented a unit which DID not have major issues related to upkeep and now I can sell for a modest profit.

Other than DVC/RunDisney in January no park plans, and later when I would have done DVC we are going to Jackson Hole for the eclipse along with our telescopes and such. Last couple of DVC stays have been Disney Parks free,

Used DVC as a base and did things like charter an airboat for a couple of days which was an AMAZING experience which I will do again Iearned more about the everglades in 16 hours than I did in a lifetime also learned that the Airboat was a Canadian invention which was a bit of a surprise.

I very much doubt I'm the only one feeling this way and I've been a 'too loyal' customer for 30+ years

However I do agree that Disney's long term problem is they are NOT creating long term repeat customers like us because of their current policies, These people are ONE AND DONE,

People like me who remember Disney's Gold Key where you could eat 3 meals a day and do ANYTHING on property without an upcharge - think a landlocked Sandals and it was not terribly expensive either. These are the kind of premier experiences which create lifetime customers not FP+'s and 60 dollar buffets reserved 60 days in advance.

I agree with everything you say. The so called safety net that Disney always had is getting a few tears in it.
I've been DVC for 13 years now and over that time our trips have changed drastically. We eat off property more each year and spend more time at UNI then ever before. I don't think it's only a few members that do this but much more. I guess you can say the safety net is the people that bought in to it but the way they vacation with Disney is changing.

 

[tirian]

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

This describes us, When Disney has raised their prices so high that people earning six figure incomes think it's 'too expensive' you as a company have gone too far. As to the restaurant pricing well a bunch of us are going to RunDisney in January and we were planning a birthday party as a bunch of us have them around that time, Turns out Disney Events is going to be not too much more than a buffet and it will be 'our event'.

At one point, Disney understood it was a solidly middle-class company and was okay with that. They innovated through the MK, EPCOT Center, and more; they opened parks around the world; they started the Disney Channel; they revitalized animation; they went to Broadway—all the while, accepting that they were targeting middle-class Americans. Sure, Disney offered suites at the Grand Floridian, but they had a healthy realization that they weren't competing with all-inclusive resorts in the Swiss Alps.

Over the last decade, Disney has chased the high-end vacation market without offering anything more than increased prices, a complicated Magic Band system, and an expanded kiddie area at the MK. I'm thrilled that Avatar and Star Wars are coming to WDW, but they will be the first major additions since 2006. Yet prices have doubled or tripled in that time.

I enjoy Disney P&R and want them to be successful. I don't appreciate being treated like an open wallet.

 

[BernardandBianca]

The problem is that when people start spending a certain amount of money, they do NOT think of theme parks. No amount of advanced FP+ ressies or meet-and-greets will change that theme parks simply don't have the same perceived value as a two-week vacation to Europe.

And IMO, the parks in fact do not provide anywhere near the value of a two-week vacation to Europe.

 

[hopemax]

At one point, Disney understood it was a solidly middle-class company and was okay with that.

I might rephrase it, as the company middle class people ASPIRED to be a part of. So from a vacation perspective, it was something you needed to save up to do, but it was an attainable goal with a little financial discipline, unlike the 2 week European vacation. Something "special" and above the family camping, trip to Grandma's or throw everyone in the station wagon for a week.

But since the discussion has turned in this direction. My Dad lives in Winter Garden, and for the first 9 years he never got any mailings from WDW. I don't know if CM's were excluded from the general mailings and now that my Mom is gone, he's now getting things or if its something else. Both mailings were, "to come to WDW for December." Which got us wondering how holiday bookings are doing this year without the draw of the Osborne Lights. Anyone heard anything?

 

[GoofGoof]

At one point, Disney understood it was a solidly middle-class company and was okay with that. They innovated through the MK, EPCOT Center, and more; they opened parks around the world; they started the Disney Channel; they revitalized animation; they went to Broadway—all the while, accepting that they were targeting middle-class Americans. Sure, Disney offered suites at the Grand Floridian, but they had a healthy realization that they weren't competing with all-inclusive resorts in the Swiss Alps.

Over the last decade, Disney has chased the high-end vacation market without offering anything more than increased prices, a complicated Magic Band system, and an expanded kiddie area at the MK. I'm thrilled that Avatar and Star Wars are coming to WDW, but they will be the first major additions since 2006. Yet prices have doubled or tripled in that time.

I enjoy Disney P&R and want them to be successful. I don't appreciate being treated like an open wallet.

Society has changed too. People spend a lot more on vacations than they did a generation ago. Look at the explosion of all-inclusive resorts and exotic locations people visit frequently these days. Whether people can afford these vacations or if they are financing them with credit card debt or home equity loans is another discussion, but the point is people are spending on vacations and they are not all 1%ers. WDW has always been an expensive vacation. For a lot of middle class people it was a option but they had to save for several years to afford it. There were many other vacation options and local amusement parks that were much more affordable.

What Disney has done in the last 5 years is take the increase in prices to an extreme. They have now priced their hotels and restaurants near the high end of the available options. With more vacation options available than ever before they are going to have a hard time maintaining their attendance levels continuing these price increases. Then again, they may not care as much as we think. The plan seems to be to decrease the volume but charge more so the revenue continues to rise. That strategy doesn't seem sustainable long term to me. Eventually they will need to level out prices.

 

[Nubs70]

And IMO, the parks in fact do not provide anywhere near the value of a two-week vacation to Europe.

I am going to WDW the week around Thanksgiving. I am also pricing a trip to Glasgow/Berlin/Middle Rhein over 14 days. Both trips are costing about the same except for a couple of hundred dollars.

 

[ford91exploder]

Society has changed too. People spend a lot more on vacations than they did a generation ago. Look at the explosion of all-inclusive resorts and exotic locations people visit frequently these days. Whether people can afford these vacations or if they are financing them with credit card debt or home equity loans is another discussion, but the point is people are spending on vacations and they are not all 1%ers. WDW has always been an expensive vacation. For a lot of middle class people it was a option but they had to save for several years to afford it. There were many other vacation options and local amusement parks that were much more affordable.

What Disney has done in the last 5 years is take the increase in prices to an extreme. They have now priced their hotels and restaurants near the high end of the available options. With more vacation options available than ever before they are going to have a hard time maintaining their attendance levels continuing these price increases. Then again, they may not care as much as we think. The plan seems to be to decrease the volume but charge more so the revenue continues to rise. That strategy doesn't seem sustainable long term to me. Eventually they will need to level out prices.

I thing crowding at WDW is a misnomer the MK is crowded the other parks are ghost towns which did not used to be the case. But neglect of the other parks led to this situation if all the parks were seen as full day parks with fireworks etc the crowding at MK woukd not be an issue

 

[ford91exploder]

At one point, Disney understood it was a solidly middle-class company and was okay with that. They innovated through the MK, EPCOT Center, and more; they opened parks around the world; they started the Disney Channel; they revitalized animation; they went to Broadway—all the while, accepting that they were targeting middle-class Americans. Sure, Disney offered suites at the Grand Floridian, but they had a healthy realization that they weren't competing with all-inclusive resorts in the Swiss Alps.

Over the last decade, Disney has chased the high-end vacation market without offering anything more than increased prices, a complicated Magic Band system, and an expanded kiddie area at the MK. I'm thrilled that Avatar and Star Wars are coming to WDW, but they will be the first major additions since 2006. Yet prices have doubled or tripled in that time.

I enjoy Disney P&R and want them to be successful. I don't appreciate being treated like an open wallet.

That's the crux of the issue right there Disney wants to charge for a high end experience without actually providing one

 

[GoofGoof]

I thing crowding at WDW is a misnomer the MK is crowded the other parks are ghost towns which did not used to be the case. But neglect of the other parks led to this situation if all the parks were seen as full day parks with fireworks etc the crowding at MK woukd not be an issue

Depends on the time of year. The other parks get crowded too at busy times. They also have lower capacity than MK so a smaller crowd seems more packed.

 

[GeneralZod]

BS. And if you believe that, then why take part?

I posted something that was clearly labeled as rumour and now seems quite likely to be news/fact. Do I care that people are discussing it? Hell no. That's the point of forums like this. Unless you believe they are to mindlessly fawn over a company and its products while constantly reminding people everytime Disney does something to screw over its Guests and/or Cast that it is a business. I do believe that's what a good many people sadly do believe.

Because I actually enjoy coming to these forums and discussing both the good and bad. You, however, have become that which you claim to hate; just the other side of the coin. I don't know if you believe you are trying to bring balance to the force with your extreme over-the-top vitriol, or if this is just your brand you are trying to sell. Either way, with the spirit-dusters (acolytes, worshipers)? you have accumulated, your agenda alters the overall tone of this forum in a decidedly negative fashion.

It just gets old man.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Depends on the time of year. The other parks get crowded too at busy times. They also have lower capacity than MK so a smaller crowd seems more packed.

Epcot has a higher capacity than MK.... But I've only seen it insanely busy during holidays and festivals., but even then you can find a quiet corner. DHS felt insanely busy around 30-35, felt full around 20. DAK? Those pathways are a tad narrow....

The secondary parks lack proper investment over the past 10 years.

 

[GoofGoof]

Epcot has a higher capacity than MK.... But I've only seen it insanely busy during holidays and festivals., but even then you can find a quiet corner. DHS felt insanely busy around 30-35, felt full around 20. DAK? Those pathways are a tad narrow....

The secondary parks lack proper investment over the past 10 years.

Good point on EPCOT. I was thinking more DHS (with its poor layout) and parts of AK. With the lack of rides it gets real obvious that it's crowded in those 2 parks. EPCOT only seems crowded if you are waiting standby for Test Track or when leaving after illuminations and even then it isn't terrible or freightening like when wishes ends.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Good point on EPCOT. I was thinking more DHS (with its poor layout) and parts of AK. With the lack of rides it gets real obvious that it's crowded in those 2 parks. EPCOT only seems crowded if you are waiting standby for Test Track or when leaving after illuminations and even then it isn't terrible or freightening like when wishes ends.

I'm not a giant fan of being anywhere near the stampede of humanity following fireworks. And you're spot on with DHS/DAK.