GoofGoof
Premium Member
Besides Disney, you can also blame the people who fed the gators at WDW.
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WDW Taking a Hit Over Gator and Massacre ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
They weren't watching it. Probably why the left the rest of the family to go play quietly up the beach.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
I live in "Middle America" currently. I have 21 stamps on my passport, adding another next year, not to mention the cruise ports I have been in, and others I will see in a few months (you don't get your passport stamped in most ports). I also have been all over the US.
I can promise you that I am not the only one living in "middle America" who has traveled like that..and plenty have done a lot more than I have.
betty rose
Well-Known Member
So Disney lured families to the beach with a movie, and when it wasn't appropriate for toddler's the family distracted the little guy, with building a sand castle. The family was doing the right thing.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, What?!? I hold absolutely NO BLAME to the parents... But- "Disney lured people to the beach with an age inappropriate movie"??? Come on now. First of all, Zootopia is fine (I think that's what was said was playing?). Regardless of the movie though.. It is a parent's responsibility to know what you are taking your child to see.
I don't think these parents were dumb. I think they were unlucky. Period.
This Disney blame is getting quite far fetched though.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Disney employs wildlife experts who know that (as stated in the report) dusk is the most active time for alligators.
Still, Disney sponsored an early evening family oriented event on a well-manicured white sands beach, only a few yards away from a body of water that Disney knew contained at least one alligator a few feet from shore. Remember, the Florida FWC report clearly stated that at least two Guests warned Disney Cast Members about the presence of the alligator prior to this tragedy.
Yet despite this knowledge, Disney invited its Guests to the beach anyway without providing adequate protection.
Heck yes, Disney "lured people to the beach".
And, heck yes, Disney bares responsibility for this.
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GoofGoof
Premium Member
I don't know about the use of the word "lured", it's a free activity offered to guests. I do agree that Disney has to take some level of responsibility and I think they have. If TWDC felt they did nothing wrong in this case they wouldn't have made any changes. They made some changes to the warning signs and also added physical barriers to keep guests safe.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Let's consider the definition of "lure":
tempt (a person or an animal) to do something or to go somewhere, especially by offering some form of reward
When Disney offers you "Free Dining", are they trying to "lure" you to visit WDW?
In this case, Disney offered a free film on the beach to its Guests. Heck yes, that was a "lure".
21stamps
Well-Known Member
I didn't read that. Doesn't change my opinion, and I don't want to get in to a Disney is liable debate again, but two separate guests did warn cast members? Where/what time did they see the alligator and who specifically did they warn?
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
Thank you for spelling this out. There were several red flags in hindsight, but beforehand they must have known that the presence of alligators was an increasing problem this year. Clearly some poor decisions made on Disney's part that contributed to willful negligence (eg signage and hosting movie nights on the beach); they may have thought that someone feeding an alligator might get bitten at some point (and accepted that level of risk), but I don't think they anticipated a fatal attack.
My stomach turns thinking about what this family must have gone through....if you've ever seen your child hurt and have been powerless to stop it, it happens so quickly. I really hope this family finds a way to cope and heal; I think their foundation is a good way to do that.
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
It's in the report. That evening, at least two guests reported alligator sightings to a CM, one around 7:30 and another about 8 I think. One of the CMs was on the beach and reported it to the 'Coordinator' (maybe the person organizing the viewing but it's not clear from the report).
21stamps
Well-Known Member
That has been confirmed?
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
The link is in this post
WDW Taking a Hit Over Gator and Massacre ...
Edit: Fair warning - it's not for the faint of heart IMO.
Disone
Well-Known Member
Do you live in Florida? Exactly what was Disney suppose to do after at least two guests warned Disney about alligators? Do you realize that is a near weekly occurance? Add that the alligator does not stay put. But the time its reported to the time it is investigated it moves away from the site it was seen. Alligators are extremely stealthy, it is not a matter of all hands on deck and finding it everytime one is spotted. They are limited on how many they can remove so they usually go after only the larger ones. Six foot or larger.
It is easy to be arm chair qaurterback here but its has nearly 45 years of experience. It was a freak accident. Very hard to predict after so much experience. Disney "lured" them to the beach ignores they have been doing this popular guest activity for litterally over a decade now. How much experience do you need to going something before you feel that his routine and safe?
It is easy to be arm chair qaurterback here but its has nearly 45 years of experience. It was a freak accident. Very hard to predict after so much experience. Disney "lured" them to the beach ignores they have been doing this popular guest activity for litterally over a decade now. How much experience do you need to going something before you feel that his routine and safe?
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
A full-length film probably doesn't hold a two or three year-old's attention.Also...what's so inappropriate about Zootopia? I think I need to go back and watch it again now
Disone
Well-Known Member
Sensationalism at its best. It was not a lure to play in alligator infestes waters. It was a family acrivity at a family resort. But thanks to legalize of this nation, lets just spin this to yet another " lure" buy a company with no good intents.
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
There were reports of alligators being fed on property or close to it (Reedy Creek in April, I believe). Disney has an ongoing program w/ FWC for alligator removal, they know that alligators are on property. There were reports of alligators in the lagoon that evening before the incident occurred, yet they still hosted the movie viewing, apparently without warning guests (eg reports of dangerous wildlife in the area and keep your eyes out). The signs at GF did not warn about alligators.
There is very little wiggle room here, even taking into account the history of no known incidents. Too many qualitative risk factors in a recent time frame that were assessed poorly. (I'm not armchair quarterbacking this - I have a background in risk analysis on intl issues. Low risk does not mean zero risk). They are taking steps now to minimize any further risk.
Edit: Let me add that, before reading the report, I might have agreed with you b/c what you are saying is logical. The facts in this case show that the onus is upon Disney to prevent this sort of accident on their property to the extent that is possible, and they fell short of doing so for the reasons listed above.
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PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
It is a very graphic, cut and dry read. It answers some very specific questions.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
This cannot be said enough times.