WDW Awakens ...

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Speak of the devil.
http://nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/economy/velvet-rope-economy.html
With disparities in wealth greater than at any time since the Gilded Age, the gap is widening between the highly affluent — who find themselves behind the velvet ropes of today’s economy — and everyone else.


It represents a degree of economic and social stratification unseen in America since the days of Teddy Roosevelt, J. P. Morgan and the rigidly separated classes on the Titanic a century ago.

What is different today, though, is that companies have become much more adept at identifying their top customers and knowing which psychological buttons to push. The goal is to create extravagance and exclusivity for the select few, even if it stirs up resentment elsewhere. In fact, research has shown, a little envy can be good for the bottom line.
...
Last month, Walt Disney World began offering after-hours access to visitors who want to avoid the crowds. In other words, you basically get the Magic Kingdom to yourself.
...
In many ways, the rise of the velvet rope reverses the great democratization of travel and leisure, and other elements of American life, in the post-World War II era. As the Jet Set gave way to budget airlines, in places like airports and theme parks even the wealthiest often rubbed shoulders with hoi polloi.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
I could argue Toontown's merits all night. It was themed to the characters, a home for them. You may not like the execution -- and I don't believe it has held up well myself -- but from a placement standpoint, I have no thematic issues. But a huge key difference is that Toontown basically went into unused expansion/backstage areas and didn't substantially alter the park.

Star Wars is totally a game-changer. It is huge. It is taking a chunk of real estate that won't be repurposed in our lifetimes. And it is fundamentally changing parts of the park that Walt himself designed and that are largely timeless.

And let's stay away from Not New No Mo'e Fantasyland. Style it has, although I'd argue the merits of it. Substance it lacks. Completely.
Thank you for this post. No one else on these forums has better stated what make Toontown work and Star Wars not.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Disney still is different. In general a public restroom at WDW is much, much cleaner than one at the beach or a sports arena/stadium or some other equivalent venue with massive crowds. When comparing WDW to its own past cleanliness may have slipped but it's still pretty clean in general.
The thing is, I think that public restrooms generally are much cleaner than they used to be.

When I paid a buck for a bleacher seat at a ballpark, my expectations weren't that high. I still remember my Golden Box seats in the mid 1980s at the old Comiskey Park for $10.50, about 5 rows behind the dugout. But man, some of the bathrooms were bad.

As prices started increasing, I noticed an appreciable uptick in cleanliness at many venues. For example, the White Sox built an entire new park. Having friends who worked in the front offices, they told me that the thinking among MLB execs was that the entire experience was being upscaled to make customers feel they were getting more for the higher prices. I sometimes joked, "We're charging $10 more for tickets but we're going to spend 10 cents more so you have a clean toilet." :D

Not at WDW.

The trend at WDW is all about squeezing costs, about what can be cut from the Guest Experience that won't affect revenue flow. :(
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
The thing is, I think that public restrooms generally are much cleaner than they used to be.

When I paid a buck for a bleacher seat at a ballpark, my expectations weren't that high. I still remember my Golden Box seats in the late 1980s at the old Comiskey Park for $10.50, about 5 rows behind the dugout. But man, some of the bathrooms were bad.

As prices started increasing, I noticed an appreciable uptick in cleanliness at many venues. For example, the White Sox built an entire new park. Having friends who worked in the front offices, they told me that the thinking among MLB execs was that the entire experience was being upscaled to make customers feel they were getting more for the higher prices. I sometimes joked, "We're charging $10 more for tickets but we're going to spend 10 cents more so you have a clean toilet." :D

Not at WDW.

The trend at WDW is all about squeezing costs, about what can be cut from the Guest Experience that won't affect revenue flow. :(
Agreed that as the prices went up the service has gone down. I still think WDW bathrooms are better than most public venues, especially the hotel restrooms or ones more off the beaten path.

As far as the stadiums go it's definitely true that the new generation of ballparks and stadiums have better facilities and more importantly more of them. No doubt that the "experience" has improved.
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
Agreed that as the prices went up the service has gone down. I still think WDW bathrooms are better than most public venues, especially the hotel restrooms or ones more off the beaten path.

As far as the stadiums go it's definitely true that the new generation of ballparks and stadiums have better facilities and more importantly more of them. No doubt that the "experience" has improved.

As short as 10-15 years ago, I remember seeing the state of the restrooms and you KNEW you were at WDW simply by the cleanliness of them. Even back then, they set the standard for public restrooms, both the heavily used ones as well as the out of the way ones. Now, it's 'you know I occasionally find some in other places that are worse'.

I guess in Igerthink, the only ingredient necessary in a Premium experience is to apply a Premium price. All you actually have to deliver is 'Industry Standard'.

But 'Industry Standard' is to IMPROVE the restrooms, not allow them to decline. (Along with post a sign to say who to contact if the facilities fail to attain acceptability).

With the talk about 'Velvet Rope Treatment' for those in the 1%, it looks like even they will have a net lesser experience then ALL guests experienced even as little as 5 years ago.

I wonder if 'Motley Fool Rick' will write about this....
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
The thing is, I think that public restrooms generally are much cleaner than they used to be.

When I paid a buck for a bleacher seat at a ballpark, my expectations weren't that high. I still remember my Golden Box seats in the late 1980s at the old Comiskey Park for $10.50, about 5 rows behind the dugout. But man, some of the bathrooms were bad.

As prices started increasing, I noticed an appreciable uptick in cleanliness at many venues. For example, the White Sox built an entire new park. Having friends who worked in the front offices, they told me that the thinking among MLB execs was that the entire experience was being upscaled to make customers feel they were getting more for the higher prices. I sometimes joked, "We're charging $10 more for tickets but we're going to spend 10 cents more so you have a clean toilet." :D

Not at WDW.

The trend at WDW is all about squeezing costs, about what can be cut from the Guest Experience that won't affect revenue flow. :(

I just don't get how this is a long term viable strategy
 

ThemeParkJunkee

Well-Known Member
When my brother and friends drove to WDW in May 1983 to get our first look at Epcot, we stayed offsite at a campsite. :)

Our 3-day hopper ticket was $35 (with tax). With minimum wage at $3.35, that was less than 11 hours of work for someone earning at the bottom of the pay scale. And both theme parks were spotless!

Today, a 3-day hopper ticket costs $367.43. With minimum wage at $7.25/hour, that's over 50 hours of work. :(

Currently, the most progressive attempts to increase minimum wage target $15/hour by 2022. Yet Disney will tack on 6 more years of price increases by then. Over the last 6 years, WDW tickets have increased an average of 35%. At that pace, it's still going to cost about 33 hours of work even if the minimum wage is more than doubled by 2022!

There once was a time when WDW really was much more affordable.

And, if anyone asks, heck yes, I'd take 3 days at the 1983 versions of the Magic Kingdom and Epcot over 3 days at today's versions of those same parks in a nanosecond.

This year's price increases are the biggest since 2006.

At WDW, what's really "awakened" are price increases. :greedy:

I wonder if they highlighted that during last week's media event. :rolleyes:

This post and your capex as a percentage of revenue graph are just two of the reasons I love reading your posts @ParentsOf4 .
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
I just got an alert that $UALs ceo Oscar Munoz (who recently came back from open heart surgery) bought a million dollars worth of his own stock with his own money at full market price.

That got me thinking. Since $DIS is so cheap that they have to repurchase shares by the truckload instead, of, you know, make meaningful investments in it's own business or it's workforce, I wonder how much the 'Form 4' gang have been buying up on the open market.

According to Nasdaq.com, since 11/11/2014, each and every named purchase, without exception, is been of the 'option execute' variety.

Too cheap to pass up buying with shareholder funds, but too expensive to buy with your own?...
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
As short as 10-15 years ago, I remember seeing the state of the restrooms and you KNEW you were at WDW simply by the cleanliness of them. Even back then, they set the standard for public restrooms, both the heavily used ones as well as the out of the way ones. Now, it's 'you know I occasionally find some in other places that are worse'.

I guess in Igerthink, the only ingredient necessary in a Premium experience is to apply a Premium price. All you actually have to deliver is 'Industry Standard'.

But 'Industry Standard' is to IMPROVE the restrooms, not allow them to decline. (Along with post a sign to say who to contact if the facilities fail to attain acceptability).

With the talk about 'Velvet Rope Treatment' for those in the 1%, it looks like even they will have a net lesser experience then ALL guests experienced even as little as 5 years ago.

I wonder if 'Motley Fool Rick' will write about this....
You might be on to something. Upcharge restrooms that are actually clean;)
 

entangled

Member
Even 5 years ago the bathrooms were free of liquids and debris on the floor at WDW, If you talk to CM's custodial has been cut way back and the computer dispatches custodial CM's to bathrooms no longer are there area CM's responsible for the bathrooms,

Of course the guest's lack of respect does not help either.

This is so upsetting to read. As a formal custodial CM, I cannot believe higher management thought that CDS dispatch for bathroom shifts was the right way to go. It was hard work alone to keep up with my assigned restroom(s) on any given night. Having to move between multiple ones randomly must truly be a headache.

In an ideal world, restrooms everywhere would be spotless. I'm not trying to make excuses here, but custodial truly is a difficult job, especially in high traffic restrooms such as Main St. or the Adventureland Breezeway. Even with two custodians manning these bathrooms, there still is not nearly enough time, space, or hands to keep the toilet paper off the floor, the paper towels restocked, etc. And on top of it all, you have guests trying to police the place themselves. There were so many times I was given dirty stares simply for doing my job, or there would be a snide comment (said loudly enough for me to hear) about how dirty/unstocked the bathroom was, while my coworker and I would be running around like chickens with our heads cut off.

My favorite story to tell is about a lady who came up to me and said *she* could do a better job cleaning the restroom than I was currently doing. I was very tempted to pass my pan and broom and let her be my guest.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
This is so upsetting to read. As a formal custodial CM, I cannot believe higher management thought that CDS dispatch for bathroom shifts was the right way to go. It was hard work alone to keep up with my assigned restroom(s) on any given night. Having to move between multiple ones randomly must truly be a headache.

In an ideal world, restrooms everywhere would be spotless. I'm not trying to make excuses here, but custodial truly is a difficult job, especially in high traffic restrooms such as Main St. or the Adventureland Breezeway. Even with two custodians manning these bathrooms, there still is not nearly enough time, space, or hands to keep the toilet paper off the floor, the paper towels restocked, etc. And on top of it all, you have guests trying to police the place themselves. There were so many times I was given dirty stares simply for doing my job, or there would be a snide comment (said loudly enough for me to hear) about how dirty/unstocked the bathroom was, while my coworker and I would be running around like chickens with our heads cut off.

My favorite story to tell is about a lady who came up to me and said *she* could do a better job cleaning the restroom than I was currently doing. I was very tempted to pass my pan and broom and let her be my guest.

Thank you for everything you did. Most appreciated it. The few who didn't ... well ... that's the world of working with the public in a retail environment.

Like I've said, I do think it's a stretch to have the bathrooms 100% at all times and I just don't believe that there was never once not a towel or puddle on the floor "back in the day". I'm sure they were ten times cleaner and better kept up with than now, but to expect perfection in a bathroom every second of every day is a bit much.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I just got an alert that $UALs ceo Oscar Munoz (who recently came back from open heart surgery) bought a million dollars worth of his own stock with his own money at full market price.

That got me thinking. Since $DIS is so cheap that they have to repurchase shares by the truckload instead, of, you know, make meaningful investments in it's own business or it's workforce, I wonder how much the 'Form 4' gang have been buying up on the open market.

According to Nasdaq.com, since 11/11/2014, each and every named purchase, without exception, is been of the 'option execute' variety.

Too cheap to pass up buying with shareholder funds, but too expensive to buy with your own?...

The Form 4 crowd at Disney knows the stock is overpriced that's why they are not buying with their own funds. Actions always speak louder than words.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Thank you for everything you did. Most appreciated it. The few who didn't ... well ... that's the world of working with the public in a retail environment.

Like I've said, I do think it's a stretch to have the bathrooms 100% at all times and I just don't believe that there was never once not a towel or puddle on the floor "back in the day". I'm sure they were ten times cleaner and better kept up with than now, but to expect perfection in a bathroom every second of every day is a bit much.

Back in the day you might see a puddle or paper on the floor the difference was they would not be there long not like today where the paper is left there and the puddle is marked with one of those folding yellow signs and also left there
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Back in the day you might see a puddle or paper on the floor the difference was they would not be there long not like today where the paper is left there and the puddle is marked with one of those folding yellow signs and also left there
This may seem like a stupid question, but how do you know how long the stuff has been there? I'm not sure I ever hung around a WDW bathroom long enough to find out. I usually have a pretty specific "plan of action" when I go in and when I'm done I'm outa there.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I believe I first mentioned it last year in passing because it wasn't fully decided (or at least that is what I was told). And I mentioned it a few times since (not sure when, I don't care about keeping track of every word I put here) ... I never saw the DL/Disney IP commercial from Feb., so you want to give Han Solo (HE IS DEAD, DEAD, DEAD ... but don't be surprised to see him in future films) credit by all means do so.

Maybe you mentioned it last year, I don't recall and didn't see any post when I searched for "Star Wars Experience" prior to the one in March. Regardless, my point was more focused on your accusing others of stealing and passing off the information as "their own", which seems strange when Disney themselves officially announced the name 2 months ago in a very public forum. It sounds like you were unaware that Disney did so.
 
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ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
This may seem like a stupid question, but how do you know how long the stuff has been there? I'm not sure I ever hung around a WDW bathroom long enough to find out. I usually have a pretty specific "plan of action" when I go in and when I'm done I'm outa there.

Honestly no idea but many times you would see a custodial CM come in and remove paper or mop puddle Not like today where they bring a yellow sign to mark the puddle and leave
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Honestly no idea but many times you would see a custodial CM come in and remove paper or mop puddle Not like today where they bring a yellow sign to mark the puddle and leave

If you are actually seeing that happen then the cast member in question needs to be disciplined. That is not what they are trained or expected to be doing. They should be marking the hazard for guest safety but only until it is cleaned up which they should be doing promptly.
 

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