WDW Awakens ...

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I'd really like to hear how it works. If the grim picture @ford91exploder paints isn't true then how does the system work? @peter11435,these discussions do tend to be a little one sided and negative so I'd really like to hear the other side if there is one.

Thanks @GoofGoof

As would I because what we are hearing is basically the grumblings of unhappy CM(s). So the 'Rest of the Story' as the late Paul Harvey used to say would be extremely interesting and informative and perhaps explain why things have gotten so bad recently.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
He's actually not wrong about housekeeping. They're expected to be in and out of their rooms in 30 minutes, regardless of the condition its in. The floor's room is filled with garbage, too bad. Oh, there's busted shampoo in the bathroom and glitter spread over the carpet? Oh well. Wait, the Guest needs clean sheets too? Sorry. If they aren't done in 30 mins, the managers prance down there and give a lecture on how their not doing a good enough job.

Which is not how you would expect a deluxe hotel to be run, I have some friends who own a small deluxe hotel on the coast of Maine, They bring in european college students to do the housekeeping during the peak season and every room is done to perfection whether that takes 15 minutes or 2 hours and 15 minutes. It's a deluxe experience (each room individually decorated no two are alike) and well deluxe experiences require deluxe attention to detail. Oh and the best suite in the house STILL costs less than a Disney 'Moderate'
 

UncleMike101

Well-Known Member
He's actually not wrong about housekeeping. They're expected to be in and out of their rooms in 30 minutes, regardless of the condition its in. The floor's room is filled with garbage, too bad. Oh, there's busted shampoo in the bathroom and glitter spread over the carpet? Oh well. Wait, the Guest needs clean sheets too? Sorry. If they aren't done in 30 mins, the managers prance down there and give a lecture on how their not doing a good enough job.
I'm afraid if a manager "pranced" up to me to give me the devil she/he would have to wait until I've finished laughing to do it.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Which is not how you would expect a deluxe hotel to be run, I have some friends who own a small deluxe hotel on the coast of Maine, They bring in european college students to do the housekeeping during the peak season and every room is done to perfection whether that takes 15 minutes or 2 hours and 15 minutes. It's a deluxe experience (each room individually decorated no two are alike) and well deluxe experiences require deluxe attention to detail. Oh and the best suite in the house STILL costs less than a Disney 'Moderate'
Just playing devils advocate a little, but if they did spend twice as long to clean the rooms it would mean rooms being ready later in the day, maybe past the checkin time. People get incredibly irritated if their room isn't ready on time. I'm not saying that they should leave rooms dirty, but there needs to be a little more organized of a system than just take as long as needed. We are talking about 750+ rooms minimum at the deluxe resorts which isn't really comparable to a small b&b with a handful of rooms (except in price;)).

I do think you need some sort of system to ensure that rooms are all cleaned properly AND on time. A generic platform of a flat 30 mins per room seems impracticle to me. A lot of the issue comes down to the system in place being too rigid. They need to empower employees (even at lower levels) to have the ability to override the system when common sense and logic dictates it. I assume that the majority of rooms probably can be cleaned in a set period of time. I'm no expert on room cleaning, so I can't say if 30 minutes is reasonable or not but you need to come up with a good average and start there. Then build in some time for the unexpected. That extra cushion is key to the whole system working. If you staff your housekeepers properly you should be able to get your expected results close to 100% of the time. With the hotels operating at 90%+ full they don't have a lot of room for error.
 

Nmoody1

Well-Known Member
Just playing devils advocate a little, but if they did spend twice as long to clean the rooms it would mean rooms being ready later in the day, maybe past the checkin time. People get incredibly irritated if their room isn't ready on time. I'm not saying that they should leave rooms dirty, but there needs to be a little more organized of a system than just take as long as needed. We are talking about 750+ rooms minimum at the deluxe resorts which isn't really comparable to a small b&b with a handful of rooms (except in price;)).

I do think you need some sort of system to ensure that rooms are all cleaned properly AND on time. A generic platform of a flat 30 mins per room seems impracticle to me. A lot of the issue comes down to the system in place being too rigid. They need to empower employees (even at lower levels) to have the ability to override the system when common sense and logic dictates it. I assume that the majority of rooms probably can be cleaned in a set period of time. I'm no expert on room cleaning, so I can't say if 30 minutes is reasonable or not but you need to come up with a good average and start there. Then build in some time for the unexpected. That extra cushion is key to the whole system working. If you staff your housekeepers properly you should be able to get your expected results close to 100% of the time. With the hotels operating at 90%+ full they don't have a lot of room for error.

Disney no longer empower any employees! It frustrates the hell out of me!! Nobody is empowered in the parks, resorts, on the phone to the call centres or even in the Disney store. Bob doesn't like people making decisions!
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Disney no longer empower any employees! It frustrates the hell out of me!! Nobody is empowered in the parks, resorts, on the phone to the call centres or even in the Disney store. Bob doesn't like people making decisions!

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Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
The problem here isn't 100% cost cutting despite it being major a corporate benefit of it all. Its about giving stupid, petulant, spoiled Americans exactly what they want exactly when they want it. As @entangled said, certain guests try to police and sometimes even insult cast members because we live in a country of filled with entitled, disgusting, special snowflake, families who think things get done by themselves. Sadly, the core problem here is that TDO has often structured its operations to appease the complaints of these sub-human pigs. Its their fault that rides like Space Mountain and Peter Pan's Flight go year after year without much needed updates. Its their fault that the characters can rarely roam free in the Florida parks anymore. It's their fault as to why just about any complaint you can muster up about any of the downgrades made to the resort exists. So while cost cutting may be an advantage of this stratagey, the reality is that Disney is ultimately trying to please a part of their demographic that should be banned from the parks for their obnoxiousness, while just about every other decent human being has to suffer through these unfortunate circumstances.
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
The problem here isn't 100% cost cutting despite it being major a corporate benefit of it all. Its about giving stupid, petulant, spoiled Americans exactly what they want exactly when they want it. As @entangled said, certain guests try to police and sometimes even insult cast members because we live in a country of filled with entitled, disgusting, special snowflake, families who think things get done by themselves. Most of the complaints here about the Florida parks are because TDO has often structured its operations to appease the complaints of these sub-human pigs. Its their fault that rides like Space Mountain and Peter Pan's Flight go year after year without much needed updates. Its their fault that the characters rarley can roam free in the Florida parks anymore. It's their fault as to why just about any complaint you can muster up about any of the downgrades made to the resort exists. So while cost cutting may be an advantage of this stratagey, the reality is that Disney is ultimately trying to please a part of their demographic that should be banned from the parks for their obnoxiousness, while just about every other decent human being has to suffer through these unfortunate circumstances.
This is sorta what I was getting at with the hotel rooms. If the housekeepers spent too much time we'd hear massive complaining about late rooms. I do think it's a mix though. A lot of the things you are saying are true, but there is also blame to be placed on Disney. Prices keep going up and they are cutting expenses which leads to even less service. People have very high expectations going in, but the price dictates that to a large extent.
 

UncleMike101

Well-Known Member
This is sorta what I was getting at with the hotel rooms. If the housekeepers spent too much time we'd hear massive complaining about late rooms. I do think it's a mix though. A lot of the things you are saying are true, but there is also blame to be placed on Disney. Prices keep going up and they are cutting expenses which leads to even less service. People have very high expectations going in, but the price dictates that to a large extent.
The current problems, and issues, affecting customer dissatisfaction stem from poor Management decisions.
Those at the top set the mood of the entire organization.
The current "Customer be damned" slash and burn money saving techniques are sure to result in a loss of formerly loyal customers.
Whether or not those customers deserve a first rate Disney experience is a moot point if they stop showing up.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The current problems, and issues, affecting customer dissatisfaction stem from poor Management decisions.
Those at the top set the mood of the entire organization.
The current "Customer be damned" slash and burn money saving techniques are sure to result in a loss of formerly loyal customers.
Whether or not those customers deserve a first rate Disney experience is a moot point if they stop showing up.
That's a valid point, but I think it's all cyclical. In most businesses there are always going to be some periods of cost cutting and if there is a point where guest satisfaction is declining then resources are allocated to fix problems. The timing of this round of cost cutting is puzzling since the domestic P&R business is booming. It usually coincides with a downturn in business, but I guess the stuff in China is impacting things.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
A lot of the issue comes down to the system in place being too rigid

Yes, that is what you do when you don't trust your employees - you build a system, and mandate everyone follow it to a T.. regardless of reality or individual circumstances. You find this type of thinking all over property. It's the inevitable outcome when companies try to run things from desks instead of in the ranks. Good management builds a framework and sets standards for expected outcomes and performance.. puts the pieces in place that are expected to make that feasible.. then sets their employees off to achieve those standards. You adapt when circumstances dictate, or reality proves your assumptions wrong. You evaluate individuals - not just metrics.

Bad management gets detached from the front line and the individuals. They focus on metrics alone, vs understanding how success and the the metrics are going together or not. They forget the employee's world and instead treat them as replaceable cogs whose job is purely to drive the intended metrics. Ultimately this leads to the system where employees are not valued, and simply seen as a means to an end.

It's incredibly hard to run a labor force the size of something like Disney.. its hard to nurture and shape enough management to drive people at the hands-on level needed. But the great companies learn the balance of 'machine/process lead' vs 'people lead'. Disney treats its employees so poorly its hard to nurture the latter.
 

UncleMike101

Well-Known Member
That's a valid point, but I think it's all cyclical. In most businesses there are always going to be some periods of cost cutting and if there is a point where guest satisfaction is declining then resources are allocated to fix problems. The timing of this round of cost cutting is puzzling since the domestic P&R business is booming. It usually coincides with a downturn in business, but I guess the stuff in China is impacting things.
I'm becoming convinced that the top Management (The Igerites) aren't interested in running amusement parks as much as they are making movies and overseeing sports venues.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
This is sorta what I was getting at with the hotel rooms. If the housekeepers spent too much time we'd hear massive complaining about late rooms. I do think it's a mix though. A lot of the things you are saying are true, but there is also blame to be placed on Disney. Prices keep going up and they are cutting expenses which leads to even less service. People have very high expectations going in, but the price dictates that to a large extent.
You hit the nail on the head here. Disney certainly does play the biggest part in it all, but the once in a lifetime tourist are almost exclusively a WDW thing. If it wasn't for them, I think that TDO would be run almost identically to TDA. While the price hikes and expense cutting is also happening at TDA, many of DLR's flaws as a product are less glaring because of the more relaxed nature of its more frequent attendees. This can also be very dangerous, however, since it creates a more casual audience that can sometimes take what makes the parks great for granted. I think this is why some DLR frequentees seem to have a more positive reaction to DL's SWL than most of us on the WDW forums. You've seen this for decades with examples like WDW's Mr. Toad getting a lot more backlash press than DL's original Subs despite closing on the same day. In short, distance creates frantic trips for some, but a fan base that doesn't normally take it for granted, while closeness creates more relaxed trips, but an audience demographic that can sometimes take it for granted.
 
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UncleMike101

Well-Known Member
Yes, that is what you do when you don't trust your employees - you build a system, and mandate everyone follow it to a T.. regardless of reality or individual circumstances. You find this type of thinking all over property. It's the inevitable outcome when companies try to run things from desks instead of in the ranks. Good management builds a framework and sets standards for expected outcomes and performance.. puts the pieces in place that are expected to make that feasible.. then sets their employees off to achieve those standards. You adapt when circumstances dictate, or reality proves your assumptions wrong. You evaluate individuals - not just metrics.

Bad management gets detached from the front line and the individuals. They focus on metrics alone, vs understanding how success and the the metrics are going together or not. They forget the employee's world and instead treat them as replaceable cogs whose job is purely to drive the intended metrics. Ultimately this leads to the system where employees are not valued, and simply seen as a means to an end.

It's incredibly hard to run a labor force the size of something like Disney.. its hard to nurture and shape enough management to drive people at the hands-on level needed. But the great companies learn the balance of 'machine/process lead' vs 'people lead'. Disney treats its employees so poorly its hard to nurture the latter.
On these points we agree....:happy:
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I'm becoming convinced that the top Management (The Igerites) aren't interested in running amusement parks as much as they are making movies and overseeing sports venues.
True. Iger hasn't shown any love for the parks over his tenure. He's added things but he hasn't shown any real vision in that area. He just sees P&R as a giant ATM machine.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
The current problems, and issues, affecting customer dissatisfaction stem from poor Management decisions.
Those at the top set the mood of the entire organization.
The current "Customer be damned" slash and burn money saving techniques are sure to result in a loss of formerly loyal customers.
Whether or not those customers deserve a first rate Disney experience is a moot point if they stop showing up.
I feel this is more a partial misconception and why I made my post. Its less "Customer be damned" and more "Loyal customers be damned and entitled once in a lifetime d-bags be rewarded".
 

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