xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Do you really believe this?
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Video - Splash Mtn finale Jan 22 (all animatronics broken)
- Thread starter KevinYee
- Start date
Do you really believe this?
janoimagine
Well-Known Member
Sadly, this is the response the suits are hoping for.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure he or she is serious, a large quantity of his posting history has involved attacking people for pointing out any flaws regarding WDW or Disney in general. This is also true when people make jabs at the people running the company. On many an occasion, he has gotten mad and insulted people for saying that certain figures such as Meg Crofton or Phil Holmes share responsibility for the poor maintenance and general decline of WDW (well respected insiders have even confirmed this). Recent example-
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=4859334&postcount=58
I don't know what CBF's purpose is in making things so personal about it though, it's very weird and illogical to see someone getting so agitated when people call out company leaders for continually degenerating the show quality (unless they're his family or something, which i don't really believe is likely). The people allowing the park to deteriorate don't care about quality, and they definitely don't care about you or me. They relish it when people give them excuses to defecate all over the experience in exchange for bigger paychecks. What logic is there in defending them when they're just laughing at you?
I have to say though, it's interesting that at over 260 posts in this thread, almost everyone is in complete agreement on this being an embarrassing and shameful state of the attraction. I'm in agreement with a Spirit here, good to see (most) people acting sensible and realize there are very serious problems. There's really nothing you can say to make excuses for the scene being in the condition it's in. Only a couple of people have even attempted (horribly) to downplay this as a lesser problem. I guess it's the sheer magnitude of how bad it looks. It's impossible for ANYONE to ignore, even the most dismissive of Disney-goers. No amount of pixie dust snorting can cover it up.
Someone mentioned Walt would be spinning in his grave if he weren't cremated. Well perhaps somewhere his ashes are swirling in a tornado.
kucarachi
Active Member
headless chickens! zombie robots waiting to capture you and drag you into the bayou! i think this ride gets better and better! really though, for some people they only get one chance, one ride....and its better to see it like this than to have never seen it at all. So with all the problems going on in the world...i'll take a log ride with headless chickens over a refurbishment sign any day
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
It is not an advertising agency's job to mislead consumers, and it is a crime to do so in every state. Intentionally misleading consumers is fraud, and companies do get in trouble for doing so. Exxagerate? Yes. Subjectively claim to be the best, sure. Mislead, no.
Wrong. There needs to be a balance, and Disney knows this. But the point is many of Disney's attractions are known, without people having experienced them, and they arrive knowing those attractions are there. I doubt there is a person alive who hasn't heard of Space Mountain. Splash Mountain and BTMRR may not be as well known, but I bet a vast majority of first-time visitors know about them and plan for them. You bet they don't care about the TTA or Carousel of Progress or Country Bears or Hall of Presidents, etc. To many guests, the closure of one is already troubling, because it is a marquis attraction. But both? They would have every right to be upset. Will it ruin their vacation, I doubt it. But disappointments often cast a cloud over a trip.
This is why I dont' see why they can't close the attraction for a few hours or a day to fix things when they are broken (I know Splah is probably more difficult, because they might need to drain the attraction for certain repairs. Having it closed one or two days during my trip is easy to plan around.
Perhaps they should phase open the more problematic attractions a few times a month, where certain attractions don't open until later in the morning or early afternoon, giving them time to inspect and repair to prevent long closures at a time. That would makew more sense they letting things break until they need to shut it down for months at a time.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, WDW's resident ticket offer is also for the entire state of Florida, from Tallahassee to Key West.
Disneyland's resident winter ticket offer is only for Southern Californians living in Zip Codes south of Santa Barbara; a Californian living in San Francisco or Sacramento or San Jose is not eligible to buy the discounted Disneyland locals pass for $99. That "sweet spot" of locals who are within a 2 hour freeway drive of Disneyland. That man Walt hired from Stanford to pick Anaheim as the epicenter of SoCal population was brilliant!
What I find interesting is the apalling overall condition of the animatronics in Splash, not just the Finale' Scene being inoperative. I've noticed it for the past several years, and the video made by Kevin Yee shows it perfectly.
It's not just the entire Finale' Scene, it's that every animatronic in the ride has very limited movement, and nearly every character can barely get his jaw to move or eyes to blink. There's half the lights out on the showboat, water effects out, etc., etc. The frozen state of the Finale' without shutting the ride down for hours at a time is just the icing on the cake.
WDWFigment
Well-Known Member
As fun as it is, I'm sure, to let everyone on internet forums know you're an attorney, I'm betting no one would be overly upset if you ceased taking it upon yourself to point out legal inaccuracies with posts. It gets old.
When I saw this post a few days ago, my two-word response was going to be "Visit Disneyland." I either forgot to post that or decided against it, but it's really true. We still go to WDW plenty, but we're going to Disneyland more and more.
The money may still go to the same corporation in the end, but funneling it through one coast versus the other certainly makes a difference. At some point, the "Disneyland model" will have to be (hopefully) adopted in Florida.
In fact, we just switched a February trip from WDW to DLR. Even with half of DCA behind walls and several DLR attractions down for maintenance, I'm betting show conditions are still better there.
To whomever said Disneyland is moving towards being more of a resort park (tourist destination): I totally agree. I don't think Disney would have invested so much in DCA if there wasn't the expectation that it would draw more tourists to DLR. I would expect AP prices to continue to rise out there so DLR can rid itself of more AP-holders as it heads further in this direction. DLR is certainly more of a locals park than is WDW, but it's definitely not only a locals park. Far from it.
Eldon_Brasche
Member
No, you aren't the only one. I totally identify with all of what you said. I, too, wish I could be part of the ignorant masses who don't know the way things are supposed to be. I feel as you do, not sure what to do...keep going back to WDW in the hopes it will get better or start seeking alternatives? So many of my bestest memories are also at WDW. I'm not a DVC owner (could've been, thought about it, decided to hold off, and I sure am glad I did now) but there's alternatives for you. You could rent your points out and use those funds for a cruise or a trip west. :animwink: I don't think there's a WDW attendance requirement to participate in the fan forums either. If you decide to go elsewhere you can still enjoy the forums and the friendships made there.
This problem with Splash is pathetic. It's not isolated, though. We see this across numerous attractions across all the parks. This is just 1 attraction of how many that are hit-or-miss. Think about that and the insanity that lies therein. Hit-or-miss.
Disney World didn't get where they are by being hit-or-miss. Yeah, Splash is 20 years old. The Magic Kingdom was 20 years old in 1991 but it wasn't hit-or-miss then.
"Waiting for parts" is not an excuse. At all. Proper maintenance practices would be that the parts are on-hand at all times. When something breaks is not the time to order a part. That's when you use the parts you have to repair what's broken then order the parts to put back for next time.
I forget who said it earlier in this thread but the monorail system's deterioration and current state of affairs is the perfect comparison. When you just get by with little patches without really taking care of something for so long that is the result you will get. Unfortunately, it's a reoccuring theme across all of WDW until the whole thing ends up "hit-or-miss". Personally, when I go on vacation I'd rather go where I'm assured of an amazing experience, not where it might be pretty good but you never know because parts for 4 attractions may be on order, the monorail *might* get me from point A to point B, 3 attractions might be down for refurbs, and anywhere I'm at is subject to break-down at any moment. That's just messed up.
These are not Disney standards. At all. Disney didn't get where they are by accepting such.
I had planned to take my boys down to WDW for 4 days for the Leap Day thing which wasn't a very settling thing for me. If it hadn't correlated with my oldest son's 16 birthday I would never have considered it. However, unrelated circumstances changed our plans and I cancelled the short trip. Have you ever had a WDW trip zipped from under your feet and been indifferent if not glad? And your Disney-freak sons pretty much be like, "Okay. No big deal." I have. That is pathetic. No, it's Pathetic with a capital "P".
Personally, I'm doing all I can to avoid WDW for now. I won't say forever because, unless I'm mistaken, Disneyland had gotten itself into a pretty sad state some years back but with a great team of leadership and a whole lot of TLC it's traveled a long, hard road back to what a Disney environment is supposed to be. Never say never. WDW could always return to her former glory, too. ((It's my dream, it can go how I want..:lol)
xdan0920, there's lots of ways to indulge the Disney love without giving your dollars or subjecting yourself to the subpar WDW experience. Rent those DVC points out and take yourself a DCL cruise. Go west to Disneyland. Disney may get my vacation dollars but TDO will not. :wave:
Not trying to defend Disney but the concept of having every part for every attraction on hand is not really practical. Maintenance management is a tough business.
Lee
Adventurer
And yet, they managed it for the better part of forty years. Back when good show was the priority.
And once upon a time there was a whole department devoted to maintaining show quality...
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
This is gonna be shorter than originally intended as the post I just wrote disappeared into the ether.
Karl will be gone because he has publically stated he intended to retire soon after DCL's fleet expansion is completed.
Karl is a mediocre exec that came to Disney in the mid-90s as a food and beverage manager at PI. He rose through the ranks due to the mass exodus of P&R talent in the 90s. Think about that ... within a period of about six years he was running PI, then running EPCOT, then being Sr VP of Ops of all WDW parks and then being head of Euro Disney SCA. It wasn't talent that allowed him to move so highly, so quickly.
I don't think much of him at all and personally watched him bungle a Chinese delegation's visit to DLP so badly in 2006 that it literally set the negotiations for Shanghai DL back by years, and almost killed the project.
At DCL, all he had to do was not run a ship into the rocks and sink it (too soon?) as it was run so well by Matt Ouimet and Tom McAlpin. He gets no credit from this Spirit for doing what most any exec with that product could do.
Aulani only recently came under his power and since the resort isn't even complete (and won't be until next year), has already had issues filling its units and had a near disaster before opening due to exec incompetence (cooking the books) under him, I really don't see how that DVC/hotel project is chalked up as a success for Team Karl.:ROFLOL:
AbD is a very mixed bag. 2011's marketing was centered around new tours to Egypt and we all know how that went. Some places it is very successful, others it struggles greatly. It is a work in progress to be fair. But it's going to take a fair amount of time to determine whether there is a large enough market of Americans with money who are scared to travel abroad (or even beyond the WDW arches nationally) without Mickey holding their hands that are willing and able to pay the ridiculous premiums (I could take two very high end trips to Europe on my own for what a typical AbD tour would cost me, 3-4 if I cashed in miles and flew for free!
) that Disney is charging for the perceived safety they get. Whether there really is a large enough and sustainable market for the product really hasn't been determined. I feel there is, but that it is likely in far fewer locations than Disney thinks.Sorry, the answer isn't more thorough, but technology isn't always what it should be (do those iPhone actually work for phone calls yet?:ROFLOL
and I don't have the time to redo the entire post.But that touches on the reasons why I feel Karl is yet another wasted suit who has little regard for his product and even less understanding of how to grow it.
~Why am I talking to you?~
The Duck
Well-Known Member
Numerous times I've seen posts here (and elsewhere) suggesting that Disney management checks out these boards from time to time and the optimist in me keeps wondering when will they get their wake up call. What really bothers me is that much of this reminds me of when I worked in a supermarket that had similar management problems. They had cut back the work force to the point where the store could barely function and we watched our reputation go down the toilet.
Overall quality of the store had plummeted starting with basic cleanliness and poorly stocked merchandise. Then, customer service became abysmal due to cut backs and hiring freezes. Meanwhile, there was plenty of competition right down the street and their businesses were thriving from the people who were fed up with us. Employee morale had sunk to the point where full time employees walked off the job during a recession and management did nothing to replace them. All the while, upper management showed nothing but a lack of respect and even contempt for the employees as well as the customers. The saddest part of this scenario is that WDW seems to be run like a failing supermarket except that the supermarket doesn't have tens of thousands of tourists spending millions each day.
Overall quality of the store had plummeted starting with basic cleanliness and poorly stocked merchandise. Then, customer service became abysmal due to cut backs and hiring freezes. Meanwhile, there was plenty of competition right down the street and their businesses were thriving from the people who were fed up with us. Employee morale had sunk to the point where full time employees walked off the job during a recession and management did nothing to replace them. All the while, upper management showed nothing but a lack of respect and even contempt for the employees as well as the customers. The saddest part of this scenario is that WDW seems to be run like a failing supermarket except that the supermarket doesn't have tens of thousands of tourists spending millions each day.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
YES! Great point, TP. I forgot to put my So before my Cal!
But, indeed, DL's local market is Santa Barbara down to Baja and east to the Coachella Valley. While WDW offers you everything from Pensacola (so far away it is in the Central Time Zone!) all the way down to the Conch Republic!
Hell, there have been resident ticket offers for Georgia residents (and possibly Alabama as well) for WDW in the past.
So, I often get amused by the whole what is a local argument and the AP and DVC crowds have very much made actual physical residences a lot less important in some respects. I kinda wish the topic would go away, but much like political commercials that are clogging my airways, that ain't gonna happen.
The ride looks completely ghetto. It is embarrassing. As I said, I noticed som issues on DL's in December, but nothing remotely like the normal operating status of MK's. As folks have stated here, even last year after having it closed the month of January it returned to operation with many things still not right.
That just isn't acceptable for what people pay to visit WDW. No excuses. I couldn't care less if someone would rather ride a Splash Mountain with half the effects inoperable than have it closed and rehabbed properly. That opinion may be valid for that individual, but should hold no sway under real world terms. It is simplistic and childlike and immature.
~Yep, $45 million a year for that!~
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
This is the worst possible attitude to have. It is exactly the attitude TDO has, and that attitude is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place.
Rescue Ranger
Well-Known Member
Sad but true.......:hammer:
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
Are we going to have a catfight to the death among our legal eagles here?
I would pay to see that!:drevil:
Have I mentioned that I absolutely worship WDW execs compared to lawyers?
Ah, but you and the Mrs are part of the Disney Lifestyle crowd that isn't afraid to actually leave the WDW MAGICal Arches of Pixie Dust and see things elsewhere. Who knows, you may actually visit non-Disney-BRANDED locales one day.
I think it will only get worse for you if you insist on visiting DL more often. You will find yourself enjoying it more and enjoying WDW less, even if you have to make excuses to yourself as to why that may be -- my opinion is you won't be one of those folks who do so ... you know the 'the worst day at WDW is better than a good day in (fill in the blank)' crowd.
And once you visit TDR (or even DLP or HKDL) things will take a turn that you can't return from. You will see many aspects of WDW for their ghetto vibe and outlet mall/timeshare resort reality.
I don't know about that ... I'd like to believe things can get better at WDW and they often do. But they do so at the micro level ... so, for example, Mansion looks amazing, while the macro view of the MK is of a park in serious and longterm decline.
That isn't to say DL doesn't have issues. I have seen some firsthand of late ... from smaller issues on Splash to some larger ones (that again point toward management) at places like the Grand Cali to the WoD.
But I think the 'tude at DL is generally (let's forget for one minute that the Mickey and Friends parking structure is ghetto and hasn't had a cleaning since opening in late 2000) to fix problems and to try and prevent them to begin with.
Ah, but there are many folks who still need to kick the WDW Pixie Dust addiction ... they may be scared that you can see Space Mountain from a McD's or IHop in Anaheim ... or that you can walk from one end of DD to both theme parks in about the same time it takes to walk to a WDW bus depot at the parks ... or that you can see (shudder ... cry ... hide under my Figgy plush) the REAL WORLD from the monorail.
I will say though that DLR isn't, contrary to your (and popular) opinion, trying to price people out of APs. It's a great Al Lutz tale that has taken on a life of its own. But Georgie K would like nothing better than to grow the AP ranks by tens of thousands more (REALLY!) ... he just wishes to do so at higher price points that TDA will justify with all the new fresh products and by the fact California residents can do the monthly payment deal, which does make a difference for many.
Look for the $499 PAP to jump to $549-589 (they have gone back and forth on how much of a bump DCA 2.0 should cause on the AP price points) this summer. By late 2013, a PAP for DL (which should have a few more perks tossed in) will be bumping close to the $700 level.
~It's dark in the closet!~
janoimagine
Well-Known Member
Ok take a step back, yes ... it was a tounge and cheek exaggeration, it is my job to make you buy my clients product and we do so by any means we can ... however I will thank you as you did just win me $50 bucks from a coworker who said some attorney would speak up and correct my post,
which is exactly why in the Ad Business the Legal department is viewed lower than the client and the account team combined.
invader
Well-Known Member
Technically it's still there, just not open.
janoimagine
Well-Known Member
Exactly. It's the elephant in the room.