Video - Splash Mtn finale Jan 22 (all animatronics broken)

[menamechris]

Uni announced some nice little items today. But the elephant in the room is WWoHP2.0. Disney doesn't have an answer ready for it, much like they didn't for 1.0. They know this, and some on the inside are beginning to squirm.
Hopefully, the condition will spread.

I hear this. But I have a hard time believing it. I seriously think everyone at the top has insanely inflated egos - and are incapable of acknowledging or even recognizing when they are getting their butts kicked....

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

I am fairly certain this is only a "BAND-AID" fix here.

If it has been on and off since August, along with non hopping Brer Rabbit, and the turtles not working on our ride back then... I doubt all was fixed. I remember my son even laughing at the finale and the "dead" chickens. It did not stop him and my daughter from going on a few times more though. I on the other had saw enough after the first ride.

 

[WDW1974]

How on EARTH would you possibly know that?? Because you hear the majority of guests around you speaking English, therefore they MUST be locals, right?

Pass the Pixie Dust.

I just returned from a SoCal visit that sorta/kinda wound up including some time at the DLR (I love getting in without paying!:king and yet again, it's very obvious that DLR is NOT a 'locals park' ... Disney itself recently said the proportion of locals (and there is a HUGE area considered local) has fallen vs. others to a 55/45 type balance. It was 70/30 prior to DCA's opening (according to the DLR Prez) and that had steadily dropped to 60/40 for most of the last decade.

Considering how many DVCers and APers you have at WDW, I'm not sure the locals argument should have any merit whatsoever in 2012. If you live in the UK but spend 4-5 weeks a year at WDW or in Orlando, l fail to see how that is measurably different from an APer to DLR that lives out in the Coachella Valley and visits DLR 8-9 times a year (including some multiple night stays).

I think the 'once in a lifetime' line is a crock of an excuse no matter where/when it is trotted out.

~Dude, You Stole My Line!~

 

[WDW1974]

You are correct.
Uni announced some nice little items today. But the elephant in the room is WWoHP2.0. Disney doesn't have an answer ready for it, much like they didn't for 1.0. They know this, and some on the inside are beginning to squirm.

Hopefully, the condition will spread.

Where are the new Disney rides going? West coast. Nothing substantial moving forward, other than Avatar creeping it's way through development, at WDW that I know of.

WDW still has NO plan. None. That came from talking to a few kind Spirits on the left coast. ... DL? Totally different. Right now there are no fewer than THREE (count them, uno, dos, tres ...) major attractions being considered (really considered) for Walt's little old park to compete with a west-coast Potter (and overall strengthened UNI-Hollywood) and a Knott's park being led by its best management group in decades.

WDW is akin to the captain of the Costa Concordia right now. On the rocks. Decaying. Making excuses. No plan.

You can take this to the bank, but I would not expect Meg Crofton to finish the year. She will retire sooner rather than later due more to health issues than anything else, although I doubt that's how it will be played.

I gotta say, though, I actually read some of this thread while sitting at an airport in Cleveland (what people will do for FF miles!) and it is really telling how much the 'tudes here have changed and that should scare the pooh out of Disney execs from coast to coast. When the evil Spirit can read a thread like this and agree with all/most of a good 95% of the posts, well, I could say everyone finally got clean :ROFLOL: ... but I think there's just only so much fooling your guests ... your best guests ... before it bites you on the behind.

So many posts here I could just say 'great point' or 'damn straight' ...

DLR isn't perfect. But there's still a great desire to try and impress ... to try and take showmanship to the next level. I don't get what WDW is trying to do beyond selling timehshares and dining plans and data-mining their guests to put values on them.

I never wrote much about my fall and Christmas visits to DL, but in December I noticed some issues with Splash Mountain there (nothing like O-Town, but still unacceptable) ... and I noticed some HUGE issues at the Grand Californian last week (didn't stay there, but spent lots of time with friends who did) that were concerns.

Back to the OP, though, there is no excuse for why both Frontierland mountains can't be down at the same time. Capacity is a huge problem, but you do what you can. You keep all the other attractions open for full days. You add new live entertainment. And if people with one day tickets complain, you let Guest Relations hand them a hopper for ONE other park. It seems Disney's best excuse for continuing to ignore things is because they fear a temporary backlash while they are creating a permanent problem.

I have now been to DL in September, December and January, while over the same period I have just been to WDW once in October ... and I can't find many good reasons to go.

As to what can be done? Well, if I were Kevin Yee I might try and get an interview with Phil Holmes and or Meg Crofton. If I were a fan, I'd be emailing (they HATE that, which is why you do so!:drevil people like Phil and calling his very personal and private and easily accessable voicemail and letting him know that having one attraction (or two) looking great in LS doesn't allow for the rest of the park to look so shabby.

Oh, and I'd also advise emailing and engaging the talking heads from the Disney Parks Propaganda Blog and do so on your terms. You have to make these folks squirm to ever get anywhere.

That's why Al Lutz succeeded in Anaheim. It will be tougher to some extent in O-Town, but the social media can be turned against them ... they may control some feeble minded bloggers and podcasters and webmaster whores who wish to live Disney Lifestyles, but there are plenty of good people out there in the community who just want to enjoy the parks like they once did.

~Has the Spirit spread like a contagion?~

 

[Horizonsfan]

^^Regardless of when Crofton moves on, there's two big questions:

1. Who would exit with her?
2. Who would replace her?

Those two things seem just as, if not more, important to WDW improving.

 

[WDW1974]

^^Regardless of when Crofton moves on, there's two big questions:

1. Who would exit with her?
2. Who would replace her?

Those two things seem just as, if not more, important to WDW improving.

1.) Karl Holz is definitely gone (others are possible, including George K);
2.) Names bandied about include Erin Wallace, George K and Jim MacPhee, but there's also the possibility of another reorg in which the position just ceases to exist altogether and I wouldn't be shocked by that.

 

[disney fan 13]

1.) Karl Holz is definitely gone (others are possible, including George K);
2.) Names bandied about include Erin Wallace, George K and Jim MacPhee, but there's also the possibility of another reorg in which the position just ceases to exist altogether and I wouldn't be shocked by that.

Any of them any good?

 

[koryadams]

I could have sworn that when I rose this one night in May 2011, nothing was working...no music I think and I was like....ok? what is going on? It was sad...

 

[invader]

1.) Karl Holz is definitely gone (others are possible, including George K);
2.) Names bandied about include Erin Wallace, George K and Jim MacPhee, but there's also the possibility of another reorg in which the position just ceases to exist altogether and I wouldn't be shocked by that.

Why do you say Karl? He's done exceptionally well with the Dream, Fantasy, Aulani, and Adventures by Disney...

 

[DubyooDeeDubyoo]

This coming from the company that now runs ad spots for Walt Disney World that only show Disneyland and Disneyland attractions and then Cinderella Castle at the end with 407-WDISNEY. They can't even spend the money to show the proper property. It's symbolic of the culture that has taken over the theme parks division.

This kind of stuff is a hoot to a fan out west. The Disneyland commercials end with CGI Cindy's, too. And through the Eisner era opening for Wonderful World gave Disneyland less of a mention than Tokyo while WDW got an early 90s flythrough of the various park icons.

I got over my Resort Envy when Disneyland tanked in the 90s. It's appearance in WDW ads isn't because the company is trying hard to position the park as the corporate flagship (the way WDW was positioned in the Epcot/MGM era) but due to the whole OneDisney/DisneyParks thing and contracted marketing companies not knowing what scene is from which park.

 

[NoChesterHester]

You are correct.
Uni announced some nice little items today. But the elephant in the room is WWoHP2.0. Disney doesn't have an answer ready for it, much like they didn't for 1.0. They know this, and some on the inside are beginning to squirm.

Hopefully, the condition will spread.

Where are the new Disney rides going? West coast. Nothing substantial moving forward, other than Avatar creeping it's way through development, at WDW that I know of.

Get out the checkbook. Call Lucas. Lets go.

 

[TP2000]

I visit Disneyland at least 12 times a year and everytime i'm there the majority of Guests are locals, so you will never get me to believe the demographics have changed as much as the folks at miceage would like you to believe.

If you live out in Illinois and you visit Disneyland twelve times per year, are you classifying yourself as a "local"?

 

[TP2000]

I think the "different visitors" thing doesn't hold up.

Disneyland has more rides than MK, though; while MK has fewer rides with a much larger capacity. This means that everytime an entire ride goes kaputsky, efficiently is severely impacted while Disneyland can refurb Haunted Mansion and Small World and Matterhorn (they're doing this right now) at the same time without causing too much chaos.

Good point on the overall ride count between Disneyland and Magic Kingdom. I think that may have a bigger part of this "no more than one rehab at a time" thing in Magic Kingdom Park than we may realize.

Let's just take the major E Ticket attractions. Magic Kingdom Park has seven (7) E Tickets; Space, Small World, Mansion, Splash, Thunder, Pirates, Jungle Cruise.

Disneyland has eleven (11) E Tickets; All of Magic Kingdom's seven plus Matterhorn Bobsleds, Star Tours, Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, and Indiana Jones Adventure.

If you closed two E Tickets for rehab at Disneyland, like they are doing now with Matterhorn and Small World closed, you still have nine E Tickets open. That's two more E Tickets than Magic Kingdom Park has without any rehabs at all! Plus there's an additional dozen more D or C Ticket attractions at Disneyland. (Plus Fantasmic! twice nightly at Disneyland, and other logistical and entertainment options that Magic Kingdom doesn't have)

I'm not trying to excuse TDO's current mindset, but some of this strategy is likely connected to the lack of attractions at Magic Kingdom Park compared to Disneyland. And in 2010 Disneyland had a million fewer visitors than Magic Kingdom did. It's forever baffling to me these two parks are run by the same company. You would think Magic Kingdom Park would be adding a dozen new rides in a massive five-year plan, instead of the more modest FLE project they are finally doing. It's confusing if you think about it too much.

 

[alphac2005]

It's appearance in WDW ads isn't because the company is trying hard to position the park as the corporate flagship (the way WDW was positioned in the Epcot/MGM era) but due to the whole OneDisney/DisneyParks thing and contracted marketing companies not knowing what scene is from which park.

That's absolutely correct. What gets me about the way the entertainment and media business works (and from having been in that business some time ago), is how a company like Disney outsources to agencies. They are a multifaceted media company with endless resources in that arena and they seemingly want to micromanage their branding and message and it's all sent to an agency. And, they can't even have advertisements with proper imagery. How it went when I was doing this was that the company still signed off on ad spots and could approve/disapprove/request changes to the content. It shows me that those in that field at Disney could care less and/or doesn't know the product or looks at the public as mindless and what's the difference if it a localized ad spot runs with Disneyland imagery for a WDW audience and vice versa.

 

[RSoxNo1]

And circus land is just a retheme ( no new attractions ) and the rest opens in waves...

Plus disney is done till avatar land... While universal is adding every other year

I do feel that Universal was playing catch up, but they've caught up to their high point and are now dipping into Disney's profits more than any time in their history.

You are correct.
Uni announced some nice little items today. But the elephant in the room is WWoHP2.0. Disney doesn't have an answer ready for it, much like they didn't for 1.0. They know this, and some on the inside are beginning to squirm.

Hopefully, the condition will spread.

Where are the new Disney rides going? West coast. Nothing substantial moving forward, other than Avatar creeping it's way through development, at WDW that I know of.

A short spoiler alert. We were fortunate enough to have both Jim Hill and Ron Schneider on our recording last night. While we mostly discussed old Universal stories, there was some talk about some issues arising with Disney and Cameron. Nothing definitive has happened yet, but Jim did seem to think that the possibility exists that Disney messes up this agreement in the same way they messed up with JK Rowling.

I just returned from a SoCal visit that sorta/kinda wound up including some time at the DLR (I love getting in without paying!:king and yet again, it's very obvious that DLR is NOT a 'locals park' ... Disney itself recently said the proportion of locals (and there is a HUGE area considered local) has fallen vs. others to a 55/45 type balance. It was 70/30 prior to DCA's opening (according to the DLR Prez) and that had steadily dropped to 60/40 for most of the last decade.

Considering how many DVCers and APers you have at WDW, I'm not sure the locals argument should have any merit whatsoever in 2012. If you live in the UK but spend 4-5 weeks a year at WDW or in Orlando, l fail to see how that is measurably different from an APer to DLR that lives out in the Coachella Valley and visits DLR 8-9 times a year (including some multiple night stays).

I think the 'once in a lifetime' line is a crock of an excuse no matter where/when it is trotted out.

~Dude, You Stole My Line!~

I feel that part of this is Disneyland gradually turning into the "resort" that they had hoped. I also think that long term Disney World fans are now seeing what's available on the west coast and are changing their vacation destinations. For my entire childhood up until my early 20s I had been to Disneyland once. In the last 5 years I have visited 4 times, and will be heading there as part of my honeymoon this year and the D23 Expo in 2013.

Between Disneyland and Universal Studios, long time fans of Disney World should start voting with their wallets if they want to see some improvements.

Get out the checkbook. Call Lucas. Lets go.

It's an obvious move, and frankly I'd love to see something like the track switch ride design that was designed by GordonRides.com. Yes, I recogize that this was in no way related to Disney, but fun to dream nonetheless

 

[wedway71]

Just curious... I am hearing some really good arguments about the condition of SM. I am willing to bet that many of you have written or called Disney leadership in regards to this.

What have your responses been? Last year I emailed Meg Croften, Al Weiss, and Tom Staggs about reading about "Gum Mountain" in here. I read about the horrible conditions of SM and was going to WDW later that month.

I got 2 phone calls with on being a manager who pulled Park Manager duty at MK. I had a really nice conversation with her for about an hour about my love for Disney and overall the good job Disney has done in the past. I felt it important Disney know that conditions are sliding and gave her specifics and quoted some posts from here.

She told me that her, area leadership, and others would tour the attraction that night while she "had the park." She called me back the next day and said they walked the entire attraction and it was free of debris or gum.

She then asked when I was going, I told her,and she called my Blackberry one day while on vacation. She asked how it looked, and I told her it looked great.

Now, based on the video and reports, this is not the case now. Again going back to the question, what is some of the feedback from Disney leadership on why they find this acceptable?

 

[NX2I85]

You are correct.
Uni announced some nice little items today. But the elephant in the room is WWoHP2.0. Disney doesn't have an answer ready for it, much like they didn't for 1.0. They know this, and some on the inside are beginning to squirm.

Hopefully, the condition will spread.

Where are the new Disney rides going? West coast. Nothing substantial moving forward, other than Avatar creeping it's way through development, at WDW that I know of.

Lee, as always I appreciate your insight. Unlike you I don't know jack squat about TDO except what I read here (and the fact that I have vacationed there 15 times and dropped some serious coin through the years :lol. However I deeply agree that it certainly looks like Disney's main problem right now is that as a corporation they are not nimble enough.

For the purposes of our discussion here, it is evident in theme park operations. But also this can be seen in the entertainment division (really Disney? You had to get on the SOPA bandwagon? Really?) But I digress...

It makes me a sad panda knowing that TDO does not have what it takes to "answer" Universal. The serious slowness of FLE is comical. It's like a long slow windup by a baseball pitcher, all to unleash a mediocre fastball. Avatarland looks like more of the same -if, that is, it ever gets here at all.

I feel that part of this is Disneyland gradually turning into the "resort" that they had hoped. I also think that long term Disney World fans are now seeing what's available on the west coast and are changing their vacation destinations. For my entire childhood up until my early 20s I had been to Disneyland once. In the last 5 years I have visited 4 times, and will be heading there as part of my honeymoon this year and the D23 Expo in 2013.

Between Disneyland and Universal Studios, long time fans of Disney World should start voting with their wallets if they want to see some improvements.

I took the family out to DLR last summer. We thoroughly enjoyed it. We spent 4 days at DLR and another week exploring SoCal. I'd do that vacation again soon. It did cost a little more than our typical WDW vacation, but enjoying a well-loved park (and whatever you call DCA) plus all the stuff there is to do in SoCal gave us a lot of bang for the buck.

We have planned a WDW trip for this spring, but since we are east coasters it is much more convenient to fit that into the time slot we have available. I know we will have a blast, but my bar for WDW is lowerd from what it used to be. I hoe someday WDW can wow me again.

 

[WDW1974]

Can't help but notice the WDW ad about two inches above the box I am typing this in.
It's for FLA residents ... the three day $99 ticket offer ... funny how at DL it is only two days for $99 for Cal residents.

Wonder what that says about the caliber of product between the two resorts.

~MK really is ghetto compared to DL ... REALLY!~

 

[CountryBearFan]

No, people. Imagineergurl is right.

I agree that the attraction is currently in bad shape overall, but everybody IS overreacting.

 

[wm49rs]

Ahhh, an expert on the subject I see.....