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Rumor Version of MaxPass coming to WDW in May?

monothingie

Unscrupulous Mean Girl Man since 2005
Premium Member
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You're not making sense. You still have a finite amount of people. FastPass takes people out of the standby line. There are less people in the line. At the same time, the number of people in the park has increased. For example, Space mountain wait times decreased by an average of 11 minutes in the year leading up to FPP and the first year of operating. Feel free to do the research, the data is out there.

The thing is you're going off of your subjective feelings and selective memory, whereas there exists actual wait time data that shows that FPP did not increase standby wait times on average. That's just a fact, not my opinion.
Further the number of FPP and Classic FP allocations did not change for attractions which employed classic FP. For rides that did not utilize Classic FP those rides with FPP suddenly got a surge of attendance because people were now being directed to them. It’s sort of why SSE for example now has higher wait times than ever before even though Epcot attendance had been relatively flat. And since all those people have been diverted the lines are more spread out throughout the park.
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
You're not making sense. You still have a finite amount of people. FastPass takes people out of the standby line. There are less people in the line. At the same time, the number of people in the park has increased. For example, Space mountain wait times decreased by an average of 11 minutes in the year leading up to FPP and the first year of operating. Feel free to do the research, the data is out there.

The thing is you're going off of your subjective feelings and selective memory, whereas there exists actual wait time data that shows that FPP did not increase standby wait times on average. That's just a fact, not my opinion.
Those are interesting stats. I don't mean this as a challenge, it's genuine when I say, if you're allowed to share that please do. You're right I am going off personal experience.

I guess I just don't have the data or access to it.

But go ahead and get into flight of Passage 5 minutes before Animal Kingdom closes. Truthfully, a great tip for anyone who has not been able to secure a fast pass for FOP. Yes partly because they may be exaggerating the wait time as it gets close to closing time. But also because after closing time they no longer dedicate any part of the attractions capacity to Fastpass. 100% of the attractions capacity will be filled with the people in the standby line. That will make the standby line move faster. Honestly, try it for yourself. It is a wonderful way to get to experience Flight of Passage without waiting in a horrendously long line should you not be able to obtain a FastPass. Also works for mine train.

But like you say, it's my personal experience and memory. But it's a lot of personal experience. A lot! :) 24 years of going to the parks weekly.
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
That's not because of the line moving faster. That's because they artificially inflate the wait times at the end of the evening. Yes - the line does move faster but that's not the reason for the discrepancy between the posted and actual wait times.
Very true. I agree with you here. I should have left out the information about the posted wait time and just stuck with the line will be about 30 minutes long. Yes the line is moving faster.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
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Lensman

Premium Member
I don't know if the data totally supports that. while fastpass does not deteriorate the hourly capacity of the attractiob it does in fact slow down the standby line.
I don't think anyone disputes that from a given physical point in the standby line, wait time has increased by a factor of 5 (for example as others have stated for BTMRR, the standby wait time from when you enter the building should have increased by a factor of 5).

I've recently come up with the following hypothesis that has some explanatory power to understand some of the behavioral economics involved in standby wait times even if it doesn't strictly represent reality.
  1. Let's say that there is a non-trivial subset of park guests who are driven by emotion and who show neither great forethought nor great planning skills. I'd like to call them the Amygdalas.
  2. Amygdalas have a set of attractions that they would like to ride on, and for each they have a "wait time" price that they are willing to pay. This wait time price (WTP) is different for each Amygdala, and it reduces a little each time the Amygdala rides the ride. So Amygdala 1 may have a WTP for FoP of 3 hours, but after riding once, their WTP for FoP may reduce to 2 hours.
  3. My conjecture: The standby wait time for an attraction like BTMRR is determined by the WTP of the set of Amygdalas in the park at the current time. And though this population of Amygdalas changes from day to day, it remains stable enough to make generalizations like, "BTMRR standby wait times are almost never less than 1 hour, except during a parade" and "BTMRR standby wait times are almost never greater than 2 hours".
Under this model, the posted standby wait times wouldn't change that much between different FastPass schemes because standby wait times wouldn't be primarily determined by the number of guests that are flowing through standby vs fastpass queues, but rather by the going "wait time price" that the Amygdalas currently in the park will put up with.

I'd love to go further, but I'll wait to see if anyone finds this idea at all interesting and worth discussing.

tl;dr - the standby wait time for attractions at a given time for most popular attractions may be driven by the maximum wait time people currently in the park will put up with, not by how many FastPasses are given out
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Those are interesting stats. I don't mean this as a challenge, it's genuine when I say, if you're allowed to share that please do. You're right I am going off personal experience.

I guess I just don't have the data or access to it.

But go ahead and get into flight of Passage 5 minutes before Animal Kingdom closes. Truthfully, a great tip for anyone who has not been able to secure a fast pass for FOP. Yes partly because they may be exaggerating the wait time as it gets close to closing time. But also because after closing time they no longer dedicate any part of the attractions capacity to Fastpass. 100% of the attractions capacity will be filled with the people in the standby line. That will make the standby line move faster. Honestly, try it for yourself. It is a wonderful way to get to experience Flight of Passage without waiting in a horrendously long line should you not be able to obtain a FastPass. Also works for mine train.

But like you say, it's my personal experience and memory. But it's a lot of personal experience. A lot! :) 24 years of going to the parks weekly.
What you're describing has absolutely nothing to do with FastPass. If FastPass had never ever existed, lines would still be shorter towards park closing because there's simply fewer people in them.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that a ride uses exactly 50% of it's capacity for FastPass and 50% for standby and it's a busy ride that never runs empty vehicles. If you were to eliminate FP entirely, you're correct that the line would move twice as fast. But there would also be twice as many people in the line in the first place, so wait time is unchanged.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
I don't think anyone disputes that from a given physical point in the standby line, wait time has increased by a factor of 5 (for example as others have stated for BTMRR, the standby wait time from when you enter the building should have increased by a factor of 5).

I've recently come up with the following hypothesis that has some explanatory power to understand some of the behavioral economics involved in standby wait times even if it doesn't strictly represent reality.
  1. Let's say that there is a non-trivial subset of park guests who are driven by emotion and who show neither great forethought nor great planning skills. I'd like to call them the Amygdalas.
  2. Amygdalas have a set of attractions that they would like to ride on, and for each they have a "wait time" price that they are willing to pay. This wait time price (WTP) is different for each Amygdala, and it reduces a little each time the Amygdala rides the ride. So Amygdala 1 may have a WTP for FoP of 3 hours, but after riding once, their WTP for FoP may reduce to 2 hours.
  3. My conjecture: The standby wait time for an attraction like BTMRR is determined by the WTP of the set of Amygdalas in the park at the current time. And though this population of Amygdalas changes from day to day, it remains stable enough to make generalizations like, "BTMRR standby wait times are almost never less than 1 hour, except during a parade" and "BTMRR standby wait times are almost never greater than 2 hours".
Under this model, the posted standby wait times wouldn't change that much between different FastPass schemes because standby wait times wouldn't be primarily determined by the number of guests that are flowing through standby vs fastpass queues, but rather by the going "wait time price" that the Amygdalas currently in the park will put up with.

I'd love to go further, but I'll wait to see if anyone finds this idea at all interesting and worth discussing.

tl;dr - the standby wait time for attractions at a given time for most popular attractions may be driven by the maximum wait time people currently in the park will put up with, not by how many FastPasses are given out
And don't forget that even the Amygdalas have assess to FP+ for at least some rides despite their lack of planning. This would condition them to expect a lower WTP than their natural equilibrium. Without ever having FP+, their WTP tolerance increases and they'd enter standby lines at a higher rate, padding those wait times even further.
 

eddie104

Well-Known Member
Any chance we can avoid rehashing the impact of FP on standby in here? There is an interesting discussion to be had regarding Disney's new (potential) policies. We don't need to get it bogged down.
I agree too many crashing opinions on the benefits or cons to the current process is causing the discussion to go around in circles.
 

Lensman

Premium Member
They should just raise prices (more), period. Rather than sell a $20 upcharge to half of the people, just raise prices another $10 for all of the people.
I'm torn between this sentiment and my worry that the fact that I think price increases wouldn't be equally distributed. For example, I think the price increases for FP+ benefits fall disproportionately on folks staying at deluxe resorts vs value - though moderate has also paid a pretty price as well. It's like the parking fee, another money grab which - though felt more at the Values, are higher in straight dollar terms at the Deluxes. I mean really, is a parking space at the WL really twice as valuable as one at AoA?

So would a $20 per person per day upcharge for a paid FP package bother me? Yes, but not as much as a $10 per day ticket price increase plus $60 per room per day increase at AoA or $120 per room per day increase at WL.

Another take is my dislike of the paid FastPasses available to Club Level rooms. I wouldn't mind them so much except I don't want to pay for a Club Level room in order to buy them. I'd rather see the benefit unbundled since I think the benefits of Club Level aren't worth the money.
 
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Sarah1024

New Member
I'm torn between this sentiment and my worry that the fact that I think price increases wouldn't be equally distributed. For example, I think the price increases for FP+ benefits fall disproportionately on folks staying at deluxe resorts vs value - though moderate has also paid a pretty price as well. It's like the parking fee, another money grab which - though felt more at the Values, are higher in straight dollar terms at the Deluxes. I mean really, is a parking space at the WL really twice as valuable as one at AoA?

So would a $20 per person per day upcharge for a paid FP package bother me? Yes, but not as much as a $10 per day ticket price increase plus $60 per room per day increase at AoA or $120 per room per day increase at WL.

Another take is my dislike of the paid FastPasses available to Club Level rooms. I wouldn't mind them so much except I don't want to pay for a Club Level room in order to buy them. I'd rather see the benefit unbundled since I think the benefits of Club Level aren't worth the money.
That's the point though....to fill the CL rooms and not have too many people take advantage of that benefit.
 

aliceismad

Well-Known Member
Will there be a paid FP for SWGE as a test though?
SWGE would be way too late to test. Seems like they would want something through testing and rolling out for SWGE opening. Cash cow and all.

Not gonna lie, depending on the rides and price, I’d pay for it. Especially if I were going during a hot time when standing in line is more unpleasant. BUT I go to Disney infrequently so the extra few hundred dollars really is a drop in the bucket. I’d certainly give up a pricey meal (which I can get elsewhere) to get FP for rides that I cannot see elsewhere.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
SWGE would be way too late to test. Seems like they would want something through testing and rolling out for SWGE opening. Cash cow and all.

Not gonna lie, depending on the rides and price, I’d pay for it. Especially if I were going during a hot time when standing in line is more unpleasant. BUT I go to Disney infrequently so the extra few hundred dollars really is a drop in the bucket. I’d certainly give up a pricey meal (which I can get elsewhere) to get FP for rides that I cannot see elsewhere.
I think the reservation system in place for Disneyland is a test.
 

Allyp

Member
It seems like what everyone is debating is how to gracefully merge the old Fastpass system (spontaneity) with Fastpass+ (reservation based). In conversations I had with my husband around this, I feel that they should dedicate a number of Fastpasses for an attraction for day and reserve it of ONLY when you enter that park, like MaxPass does. I feel like gives the feeling of the "run and get your Fastpass" feeling of yesteryear and gives those who are dedicated to getting into that E ticket attraction a fair shot of getting a Fastpass. It would be like getting into DAK at 8am and snagging a Fastpass for your family at FoP at 12pm or whatever happens to be the next available time slot.

Having a paid system to allow those to purchase more "harder to get" Fastpass seems like it doesn't solve the overall problem in IMO. It just makes people more frustrated that if you missed out to get a Free Fastpass, the only way to get one is to pay for it. Of course you can still go standby, but as we've all seen, a standby line that doesn't appear to move, makes for cranky guests.
 
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