disneyworlddad
Well-Known Member
I don buy this.
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Rumor Version of MaxPass coming to WDW in May?
- Thread starter rle4lunch
- Start date
I don buy this.
mikejs78
Premium Member
Doesn't matter if you buy it or not. The data backs it up.
Disone
Well-Known Member
I don't know if the data totally supports that. while fastpass does not deteriorate the hourly capacity of the attractiob it does in fact slow down the standby line.
If you'd like to experience this in person, get in line 5 minutes before the park closes.
A line that is posted as 90 + minutes will now be less then 30. By the way this strategy works for just about any major attraction that you don't want to stand in a long line for and yet could not obtain a FastPass reservation, including FOP!
The reason why it works: both Lines 5will close at Park closing. However it will only take a few minutes for the attraction to process the remaining amount of people in the FP line. At this point it then begins to process 100% of the attractions hourly capacity out of the standby Line. This has the effect of accelerating the standby line greatly. You will absolutely notice the standby line moving at a faster pace.
The hourly capacity has not changed, the attraction is running with the same efficiency, possibly even less efficiency as the team's begin to wind the attractions down for end of the operational day. What has changed it is no longer switching between Fastpass and standby, allowing for the 100% of the capacity the attraction is being run on to be dedicated to the remaining standby line.
The q line for Space Mountain, specifically from entrance to merge Point, holds the same amount of people now as it ever did when it was first opened. The difference is that distance of line now moves much slower. It's not because it's holding less people, it's because it literally is moving slower.
mikejs78
Premium Member
Except the data doesn't support that. You can't pick a time at end of day and extrapolate from that. For example, Disney is known to increase standby posted time before closing to discourage people from getting in line. And yes the standby line will definately move faster once FP stops for the day. But over the course of the entire day the actual physical number of people in the standby line will be fewer, because of all the people who have FPs. They'd otherwise be in the standby line. If you have 5000 people in Standby and 5000 people with FPs, do you think those 5000 people with FPs magically disappear if FP goes away?
disneyworlddad
Well-Known Member
I don't buy it because there are still plenty of times during the day when rides are not running at capacity. I think a large number of people who use a fast pass on small world would have just gotten in the standby line anyway. Earlier in the morning, late at night, Its a small world, philharmagic, dumbo, barnstormer, monsters, etc are still not running at capacity.
The only thing it has done on these rides is make the standby longer in the middle of the day.
peter11435
Well-Known Member
Fastpass has increased overall utilization of attraction capacity. Those attractions carry more guest in an operating day than they did prior to fastpass. You can’t really dispute this as the data clearly backs this up.
KingdomofDreams
Well-Known Member
I just hope there are finally options that do not require scheduling everything. Having to plan every day in advance and adhere to those schedules every day in the parks is a royal pain. Uni has had it right from the start. Whether it's unlimited access, just one access per attraction per day, or a set number of FP's, give the guest total flexibility and let them enjoy spontaneity. Everything does not have to be so damn complicated and regimented.
Disone
Well-Known Member
No they don't disappear. What you dismiss though is if you give 20% to the standby line, and 80% to the fast pass line, that doesn't mean to standby line holds less people and it certainly doesn't hold 80% less people. It holds the same amount of people it has always held. But now it's going to move at 80% less efficiency because only 20% of the rides capacity is being taken out of that line. Whereas before it was 100%.
For Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, the entire building still gets used as she jas as it always has. Only a tiny portion of the building uses the Fastpass que. However you go through the building much slower rate now than you did prior to Fastpass. This is because the Q is moving at a slower rate than it was before.
For Splash Mountain it used to be about 30 minutes from when you first walked into the building to when you got onto the load Q. I'm not including the time you would Meander around the trees. This was about 30 minutes regardless of which side you choose from. Today one side is used for the Fastpass people to walk briskly to the load and the other side is used as the standby. However that is now longer than 30 minutes. This is because prior to Fastpass both sides were used evenly. Now one side is used for 80% and the other side is used for 20%. The standby line is moving slower. It isn't any shorter from the entry point to the load point.
aliceismad
Well-Known Member
Maybe I missed this, but is this really going to roll out by May?
That's not because of the line moving faster. That's because they artificially inflate the wait times at the end of the evening. Yes - the line does move faster but that's not the reason for the discrepancy between the posted and actual wait times.
mikejs78
Premium Member
You're not making sense. You still have a finite amount of people. FastPass takes people out of the standby line. There are less people in the line. At the same time, the number of people in the park has increased. For example, Space mountain wait times decreased by an average of 11 minutes in the year leading up to FPP and the first year of operating. Feel free to do the research, the data is out there.
The thing is you're going off of your subjective feelings and selective memory, whereas there exists actual wait time data that shows that FPP did not increase standby wait times on average. That's just a fact, not my opinion.
scottieRoss
Well-Known Member
I am constantly amazed by some of the posts on here. In order to do an accurate comparrison of wait times, you must make all things equal or it is not valid.
Pre-FP, if attendance was 50,000, x number of people would be in line at Space Mountain in the afternoon. This would give us a wait time of y minutes (with x people in front of you) therefore Y=x(load time)
Now, Post-FP if attendance is 50,000, x number of people will still be in line at Space Mountain for that same time. The max number of riders is a constant. if the demand for Space Mountain is a constant, x people will enter the queue ahead of you. The difference is that while you wait in line, the fastpass line will contain FP number of people spread out over the course of the time. The standby queue ahead of you will contain X-FP people. Line time Y = FP(loadtime)+ (X-FP)(loadtime)=x(loadtime)
Pre-FP, if attendance was 50,000, x number of people would be in line at Space Mountain in the afternoon. This would give us a wait time of y minutes (with x people in front of you) therefore Y=x(load time)
Now, Post-FP if attendance is 50,000, x number of people will still be in line at Space Mountain for that same time. The max number of riders is a constant. if the demand for Space Mountain is a constant, x people will enter the queue ahead of you. The difference is that while you wait in line, the fastpass line will contain FP number of people spread out over the course of the time. The standby queue ahead of you will contain X-FP people. Line time Y = FP(loadtime)+ (X-FP)(loadtime)=x(loadtime)
This is especially true for less busier rides.
Further the number of FPP and Classic FP allocations did not change for attractions which employed classic FP. For rides that did not utilize Classic FP those rides with FPP suddenly got a surge of attendance because people were now being directed to them. It’s sort of why SSE for example now has higher wait times than ever before even though Epcot attendance had been relatively flat. And since all those people have been diverted the lines are more spread out throughout the park.
Disone
Well-Known Member
Those are interesting stats. I don't mean this as a challenge, it's genuine when I say, if you're allowed to share that please do. You're right I am going off personal experience.
I guess I just don't have the data or access to it.
But go ahead and get into flight of Passage 5 minutes before Animal Kingdom closes. Truthfully, a great tip for anyone who has not been able to secure a fast pass for FOP. Yes partly because they may be exaggerating the wait time as it gets close to closing time. But also because after closing time they no longer dedicate any part of the attractions capacity to Fastpass. 100% of the attractions capacity will be filled with the people in the standby line. That will make the standby line move faster. Honestly, try it for yourself. It is a wonderful way to get to experience Flight of Passage without waiting in a horrendously long line should you not be able to obtain a FastPass. Also works for mine train.
But like you say, it's my personal experience and memory. But it's a lot of personal experience. A lot!
24 years of going to the parks weekly.
Disone
Well-Known Member
Very true. I agree with you here. I should have left out the information about the posted wait time and just stuck with the line will be about 30 minutes long. Yes the line is moving faster.
Nope. That’s to make operations run as smooth as possible. Using Fastpass would reduce efficiency. Not my words.
I doubt it.
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Lensman
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone disputes that from a given physical point in the standby line, wait time has increased by a factor of 5 (for example as others have stated for BTMRR, the standby wait time from when you enter the building should have increased by a factor of 5).
I've recently come up with the following hypothesis that has some explanatory power to understand some of the behavioral economics involved in standby wait times even if it doesn't strictly represent reality.
- Let's say that there is a non-trivial subset of park guests who are driven by emotion and who show neither great forethought nor great planning skills. I'd like to call them the Amygdalas.
- Amygdalas have a set of attractions that they would like to ride on, and for each they have a "wait time" price that they are willing to pay. This wait time price (WTP) is different for each Amygdala, and it reduces a little each time the Amygdala rides the ride. So Amygdala 1 may have a WTP for FoP of 3 hours, but after riding once, their WTP for FoP may reduce to 2 hours.
- My conjecture: The standby wait time for an attraction like BTMRR is determined by the WTP of the set of Amygdalas in the park at the current time. And though this population of Amygdalas changes from day to day, it remains stable enough to make generalizations like, "BTMRR standby wait times are almost never less than 1 hour, except during a parade" and "BTMRR standby wait times are almost never greater than 2 hours".
I'd love to go further, but I'll wait to see if anyone finds this idea at all interesting and worth discussing.
tl;dr - the standby wait time for attractions at a given time for most popular attractions may be driven by the maximum wait time people currently in the park will put up with, not by how many FastPasses are given out
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
What you're describing has absolutely nothing to do with FastPass. If FastPass had never ever existed, lines would still be shorter towards park closing because there's simply fewer people in them.Those are interesting stats. I don't mean this as a challenge, it's genuine when I say, if you're allowed to share that please do. You're right I am going off personal experience.
I guess I just don't have the data or access to it.
But go ahead and get into flight of Passage 5 minutes before Animal Kingdom closes. Truthfully, a great tip for anyone who has not been able to secure a fast pass for FOP. Yes partly because they may be exaggerating the wait time as it gets close to closing time. But also because after closing time they no longer dedicate any part of the attractions capacity to Fastpass. 100% of the attractions capacity will be filled with the people in the standby line. That will make the standby line move faster. Honestly, try it for yourself. It is a wonderful way to get to experience Flight of Passage without waiting in a horrendously long line should you not be able to obtain a FastPass. Also works for mine train.
But like you say, it's my personal experience and memory. But it's a lot of personal experience. A lot!
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that a ride uses exactly 50% of it's capacity for FastPass and 50% for standby and it's a busy ride that never runs empty vehicles. If you were to eliminate FP entirely, you're correct that the line would move twice as fast. But there would also be twice as many people in the line in the first place, so wait time is unchanged.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
And don't forget that even the Amygdalas have assess to FP+ for at least some rides despite their lack of planning. This would condition them to expect a lower WTP than their natural equilibrium. Without ever having FP+, their WTP tolerance increases and they'd enter standby lines at a higher rate, padding those wait times even further.