Unmagical summer of '09?

[maggiegrace1]

I'm with 1974 on this one.

Yes, I still love the place. That 'feeling' still exists. But in certain areas of the parks it's a weakened shell of what it used to be. If I stay to the left at MK the 'feeling' is alive and strong. Yet if I go to TL, it's gone, in a state of utter despair, unless I'm on TTA. FL is similar, but not as bad.

Epcot, I will be one of the people who says and thinks that FW is a mess. A weakened example of what it once was. It does still carry itself like a mighty warrior, with all the massive buildings, each architectural marvels in one way or another. But it's a warrior of weakened spirit. Still fierce on the outside, yet empty and lacking on the inside. It retains it's feeling, but lacks its true content.

DHS is much the same. I love the feeling. But Tower, Rockin and Muppets--hit those a few times, then spend the rest of my day strolling the park, enjoying a beer or three and enjoying the different aspects of the parks and the well done restaurants.

FW and AK, my two personal favorites, alive with spirit and full of that 'feeling' only lacking in content. At AK, just a little more to do would make a world of difference. One more land or a couple of C/D tickets. Thats all. FW, it could go on as is forever and I'd still be happy, but to leave such a masterpiece basically untouched for so long just doesn't seem right. I'm not saying an E-ticket, but why not a couple of smaller, niche rides, just rides to kind of take you there for a minute, to let you grab a piece of the countries history in a "real world 3-D" environment.

And the food and souvenirs. Well, thats another story. The variety is sorely missed.

I know how you feel 1974. It's like watching a loved one grow old or become grossly unhealthy. You just hate to see it, but you don't want to let it interfere with the time you spend with them. You just know that it could be so much better and why it isn't going that direction is the real problem.

To let such a thing of beauty just sit is ideal for the works of Dali and Van Gogh, but to see it happen to a company that based itself that used to be highly innovative and dynamic, just hurts.

I understand that completely..I really do...but my thing is that it seems like WDW1974 is not understanding that not everyone feels the way he does...and he will always find a way to tell them they are wrong or call them idiots because they do not agree with him.

It seems like he is saying he is right..if we do not agree with what he says then we are wrong.

Thats the whole thing I am not getting...why do I have to be an idiot because I am happy with what I have while at WDW?:shrug:

Oh..goodness..I need a drink!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Actually, when quality drops it does so for everyone and they are affected whether they are conscious of it or not. For instance if a park is dirtier because custodial budgets are cut, it is dirtier for all and a lesser place whether it affects any individual on a conscious level. If an attraction (say EE) is operating with 75% of its effects inoperable, then it is a lesser experience for all whether or not any individual is bothered.

This is the most important statement of all.

Crying during Wishes is fine but it won't make Davy Jones work on a regular basis, fix the Yetti, update CoP, re-open PI, increase park hours, bring back live entertainment etc. The fact that some of the resorts premier attractions are begin run in such a state is inexcusable, regardless of the individual's enjoyment of their overal trip. There is a reason why John Lassater and Bob Iger were rumored to be disapointed with their current visits to WDW. Something is wrong, regardless of whether or not someone cares to acknoledge it and it is Disney's respoinsibility to always do thier best by adressing these problems and not wait until a lawsuit happens to fix it.

BTW, I'm really looking forward to the new HoP too.

 

[McAwesome2006]

I understand that completely..I really do...but my thing is that it seems like WDW1974 is not understanding that not everyone feels the way he does...and he will always find a way to tell them they are wrong or call them idiots because they do not agree with him.

It seems like he is saying he is right..if we do not agree with what he says then we are wrong.

Thats the whole thing I am not getting...why do I have to be an idiot because I am happy with what I have while at WDW?:shrug:

Oh..goodness..I need a drink!

Me too! I was going to go where you have last night, but thought better of it. Im glad I didnt.

 

[EpcoTim]

I understand that completely..I really do...but my thing is that it seems like WDW1974 is not understanding that not everyone feels the way he does...and he will always find a way to tell them they are wrong or call them idiots because they do not agree with him.

It seems like he is saying he is right..if we do not agree with what he says then we are wrong.

Thats the whole thing I am not getting...why do I have to be an idiot because I am happy with what I have while at WDW?:shrug:

Oh..goodness..I need a drink!

I either haven't seen or haven't been paying attention enough to see any name calling, but that aside, I agree with his point that we shouldn't ignore how they are ignoring the parks. If you get my drift.

Of course we all enjoy, but for me it's tough to overlook what it could really be or to forget what it really was. Basic evolution usually means the advancing of a species and unfortunately I don't see that here.

 

[Monty]

Yet their park hours are much shorter than past years. Strange.

My suspicion is that they have changed their approach to posting hours for the parks so far in advance. In the past, they have posted longer hours and then as time got shorter and expected crowd levels became clearer they would reduce the hours accordingly. Now, it appears they are starting with shorter hours and will increase hours should expected crowd levels warrant it.

Since many plan their visits based on projected Park hours, this creates more likelihood of praise and fewer complaints.

Reducing Park hours at the last minute to match expectations = Guest complaints
Increasing Park hours at the last minute to match expectations = Guests happier

:shrug:

Actually, when quality drops it does so for everyone and they are affected whether they are conscious of it or not. For instance if a park is dirtier because custodial budgets are cut, it is dirtier for all and a lesser place whether it affects any individual on a conscious level. If an attraction (say EE) is operating with 75% of its effects inoperable, then it is a lesser experience for all whether or not any individual is bothered.

But even granting you that point, my question would be why so many people here are apparently affected in a negative way by bringing up issues with drops in quality ... why is criticizing Disney akin to someone saying something about your child or mother? Why do people take it personally?

That's really not healthy and it feeds into the commonly held belief that most fans (be they Disney fans, Star Wars fans, New York Jets fans, Harley fans, Idol fans etc ...) have more than a few screws loose.

Fan: Derived from the word Fanatic. By definition someone who is enthusiastically supportive.

We can butt heads forever, but in my view you post deliberately more negative than positive posts in regard to WDW to incite the forums to argument moreso than to foster healthy debate. I tend to the other, more positive, approach by helping fellow fans further enjoy their visit to WDW. Sharing my joy in the wonders that I see in WDW and discussing those wonders with kindred souls is why I'm here. I dislike your seeming propensity to deride others...And honestly am not entirely clear on why you're here. :shrug:

fa⋅nat⋅ic

  /fəˈnæt

ɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fuh-nat-ik] Show IPA

–noun 1. a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

 

[DisneyChik17]

If you do go, could you stay off site? Because I'm working Hospitality for my CP and honestly, I don't want to check you in and hear about all the negative things you can point out in the 5 minutes we interact.

Honestly, I mean this.

 

[jt04]

I either haven't seen or haven't been paying attention enough to see any name calling, but that aside, I agree with his point that we shouldn't ignore how they are ignoring the parks. If you get my drift.

Of course we all enjoy, but for me it's tough to overlook what it could really be or to forget what it really was. Basic evolution usually means the advancing of a species and unfortunately I don't see that here.

I've been on this forum for years and there has always been criticism of WDW here. To act like WDW74 brought it here is absurd. Personally, I think he heard through his contacts that we were getting results in some areas and Disney was starting to pay attention to this forum and he got in post-haste to grab some attention. And in all likelihood he is laughing at those who do defend him. Some are submitting and that is what motivates him. They are the ultimate DoM's in my book. The guy is common.

PS- Aren't you just a little embarrased to think of yourself as the decider of what or who is more "evolved"? But then you do defend 74 so maybe you really do believe that because he definitely has an exalted view of himself.

 

[mmexpress]

I've been on this forum for years and there has always been criticism of WDW here. To act like WDW74 brought it here is absurd. Personally, I think he heard through his contacts that we were getting results in some areas and Disney was starting to pay attention to this forum and he got in post-haste to grab some attention. He trashes anyone that does not submit to his viewpoint. And in all likelihood he is laughing at those who do defend him. Some are submitting and that is what motivates him. They are the ultimate DoM's in my book. The guy is common.

PS- Aren't you just a little embarrased to think of yourself as the decider of what or who is more "evolved"? But then you do defend 74 so maybe you really do believe that because he definitely has an exalted view of himself.

Then again,you have others who continue to argue with him so who are the ones motivating him?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Can we at least stop the personal attacks? You can criticize the view point, but
sheesh.

 

[maggiegrace1]

Can we at least stop the personal attacks? You can criticize the view point, but
sheesh.

I agree...

I think only JT and 1974 have called names though in this thread.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

Can we at least stop the personal attacks? You can criticize the view point, but
sheesh.

I agree. It is called a forum. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the situation.

Besides, truth often falls in the middle of all of these diametrically opposed viewpoints.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I agree...

I think only JT and 1974 have called names though in this thread.

Either way...:lol::lol::lookaroun

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I agree. It is called a forum. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the situation.

Besides, truth often falls in the middle of all of these diametrically opposed viewpoints.

Right. The very nature of this site encourages debate, but there is no reason to be mean about it.

Sorry if I am playing Mod a bit much....:lookaroun

 

[maggiegrace1]

Either way...:lol::lol::lookaroun

Right. The very nature of this site encourages debate, but there is no reason to be mean about it.

Sorry if I am playing Mod a bit much....:lookaroun

From all sides....

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

From all sides....

i

 

[maggiegrace1]

i

:lol:

 

[DisneyMusician2]

Right. The very nature of this site encourages debate, but there is no reason to be mean about it.

Sorry if I am playing Mod a bit much....:lookaroun

Honestly, it is needed sometimes. It is hard to enjoy a good Disney debate when personal insults begin to sling around the thread.

Many people here take Disney personally. And almost all of us, even those who bash occasionally, continue to visit. It is a special place to us.

Are some things looking down? Yes.

Is everything awful? No, of course not. And some stuff is not as bad to some as it is to others.

As a 20-year Disney veteran, I can tell you there are tings that I think are better about visiting today than previously. I know for me personally, I think food has improved greatly, especially being an adventurous eater. 20 years ago, nothing except burgers were authentic fare, and many restaurants do a much better job of it now. The dining plan has brought some offerings back toward the pack, but there are many improvements.

Many will disagree and cite a variety of examples or call the people there are just continuing on not noticing the change downward. I respectfully disagree, and that is what being here is truly all about. I welcome the debate.

 

[jt04]

I agree...

I think only JT and 1974 have called names though in this thread.

I'm only making a point. I always like to see if those that dish it out can take it. And he dishes it out.

 

[maggiegrace1]

I'm only making a point. I always like to see if those that dish it out can take it. And he dishes it out.

Thats fine..I was just saying that no one has really been ugly in this thread...:wave:

 

[jt04]

Honestly, it is needed sometimes. It is hard to enjoy a good Disney debate when personal insults begin to sling around the thread.

Many people here take Disney personally. And almost all of us, even those who bash occasionally, continue to visit. It is a special place to us.

Are some things looking down? Yes.

Is everything awful? No, of course not. And some stuff is not as bad to some as it is to others.

As a 20-year Disney veteran, I can tell you there are tings that I think are better about visiting today than previously. I know for me personally, I think food has improved greatly, especially being an adventurous eater. 20 years ago, nothing except burgers were authentic fare, and many restaurants do a much better job of it now. The dining plan has brought some offerings back toward the pack, but there are many improvements.

Many will disagree and cite a variety of examples or call the people there are just continuing on not noticing the change downward. I respectfully disagree, and that is what being here is truly all about. I welcome the debate.

I don't hear anyone calling for no debate. What I do hear is people requesting 74 treat people on this forum with respect. That is not unreasonable. But if he can't I will be here to challange him. And sooner or later I am sure the mods will tire of the way he treats forum members. We were having great debates about WDW quality long before he showed up. But he is like a small child that walks into a room of adults and starts acting like a clown so as to get all eyes on themselves.

Seems to be some sort of malfunction going on. Maybe we can all wave until he stops. :wave: