Unmagical summer of '09?

[jt04]

You apparently have NO CLUE where 74 is coming from and so your post just struck me as rude and arrogant. 74 is simply stating facts. I don't think he was being a jerk about it in any way.

That is because you agree with him. Try disagreeing with him some time just for the fun of it. DisneyChik17's first impressions are exactly right.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm with 1974 on this one.

Yes, I still love the place. That 'feeling' still exists. But in certain areas of the parks it's a weakened shell of what it used to be. If I stay to the left at MK the 'feeling' is alive and strong. Yet if I go to TL, it's gone, in a state of utter despair, unless I'm on TTA. FL is similar, but not as bad.

Epcot, I will be one of the people who says and thinks that FW is a mess. A weakened example of what it once was. It does still carry itself like a mighty warrior, with all the massive buildings, each architectural marvels in one way or another. But it's a warrior of weakened spirit. Still fierce on the outside, yet empty and lacking on the inside. It retains it's feeling, but lacks its true content.

DHS is much the same. I love the feeling. But Tower, Rockin and Muppets--hit those a few times, then spend the rest of my day strolling the park, enjoying a beer or three and enjoying the different aspects of the parks and the well done restaurants.

FW and AK, my two personal favorites, alive with spirit and full of that 'feeling' only lacking in content. At AK, just a little more to do would make a world of difference. One more land or a couple of C/D tickets. Thats all. FW, it could go on as is forever and I'd still be happy, but to leave such a masterpiece basically untouched for so long just doesn't seem right. I'm not saying an E-ticket, but why not a couple of smaller, niche rides, just rides to kind of take you there for a minute, to let you grab a piece of the countries history in a "real world 3-D" environment.

And the food and souvenirs. Well, thats another story. The variety is sorely missed.

I know how you feel 1974. It's like watching a loved one grow old or become grossly unhealthy. You just hate to see it, but you don't want to let it interfere with the time you spend with them. You just know that it could be so much better and why it isn't going that direction is the real problem.

To let such a thing of beauty just sit idle is fine for the works of Dali and Van Gogh, but to see it happen to a company that based itself on, and that used to be highly innovative and dynamic, just hurts.

Absolutely ... and thanks for the back up.

Being happy with mediocrity and encouraging Disney to go in that direction seems counterproductive to me as a fan.

 

[DisneyChik17]

You apparently have NO CLUE where 74 is coming from and so your post just struck me as rude and arrogant. 74 is simply stating facts. I don't think he was being a jerk about it in any way.

Wow. When did I say he was a jerk? Umm... try NEVER. He is being over dramatic and negative. You are the jerk. Have a magical day.

 

[WDWGoof07]

Thanks for your opinions as usual, Rush.

I didn't know you could be so cordial to jt04....

 

[WDW1974]

I understand that completely..I really do...but my thing is that it seems like WDW1974 is not understanding that not everyone feels the way he does...and he will always find a way to tell them they are wrong or call them idiots because they do not agree with him.

It seems like he is saying he is right..if we do not agree with what he says then we are wrong.

Thats the whole thing I am not getting...why do I have to be an idiot because I am happy with what I have while at WDW?:shrug:

Oh..goodness..I need a drink!

Dana, I think so many folks miss very basic points.

If someone wants to say the BAH, Stitch's Great Belch-off, McPooh's Playground are wonderful and they enjoy them, then that's their opinion and they are welcome to it. I may disagree with their taste, but I wouldn't call them idiots or question their value to the species let alone the fan community.

I have never called an individual an idiot here for their opinions (or anything else that I can think of) and there are a few posters who seem to live here to bait me.That should be very obvious. (where's my favorite lapdog and the old man in Texas to back me up?) It's pretty clear those folks either just want my voice silences or feel threatened by me, so they turn threads into shouting matches while playing the victim ...kind of like a five-year old who punches his little brother while Mom is watching, while saying 'I didn't do anything.'

But you're missing a very fundamental point if you believe I think you or anyone is an idiot for enjoying WDW as it is. I, obviously, still do so myself in spaded or I wouldn't even be planning this trip. I'd be an idiot and a hypocrite if I didn't feel that way.

But the pixie dust crowd really is attempting to drown out any real discussion of Disney that paints the company, the parks and management in any kind of negative (or true) light.

 

[dixiegirl]

I understand that completely..I really do...but my thing is that it seems like WDW1974 is not understanding that not everyone feels the way he does...and he will always find a way to tell them they are wrong or call them idiots because they do not agree with him.

It seems like he is saying he is right..if we do not agree with what he says then we are wrong.

Thats the whole thing I am not getting...why do I have to be an idiot because I am happy with what I have while at WDW?:shrug:

Oh..goodness..I need a drink!

Here have a glass I'm pouring!!! LOL...

 

[WDW1974]

I either haven't seen or haven't been paying attention enough to see any name calling, but that aside, I agree with his point that we shouldn't ignore how they are ignoring the parks. If you get my drift.

Of course we all enjoy, but for me it's tough to overlook what it could really be or to forget what it really was. Basic evolution usually means the advancing of a species and unfortunately I don't see that here.

No. There hasn't been any name-calling, just the usual personal character attacks by my good buddy, JT, which never seem to ellicit any notice by the mods. I don't quite get how a thread can become all about an individual but ...

As to your point, I do think the overall level of 'thinking' on this site has improved leaps and bounds from when I first started reading ... but it still has definitely got a way to go.

Points about the incredible cuts in parks hours, Disney's resort discounts, AC being manipulated to save money and cut guest comfort, dining increases etc ... no one wants to talk about them. They'd go after me ... well, since I am headed to the beach shortly they can have the whole night to spew pages of anti-WDW1974 rhetoric.

But I don't care because ... well, I just made plans to go to WDW!!!

 

[WDW1974]

My suspicion is that they have changed their approach to posting hours for the parks so far in advance. In the past, they have posted longer hours and then as time got shorter and expected crowd levels became clearer they would reduce the hours accordingly. Now, it appears they are starting with shorter hours and will increase hours should expected crowd levels warrant it.

Since many plan their visits based on projected Park hours, this creates more likelihood of praise and fewer complaints.

Reducing Park hours at the last minute to match expectations = Guest complaints
Increasing Park hours at the last minute to match expectations = Guests happier

Oh, I agree with that.

Just look back at spring break to see how that worked. Remember all the breathless phased closing and park hours and entertainment being added threads?

You look so much better from a PR standpoint when you do so. And I have no doubt they'll do so now (although I think they won't add nearly as much as April).

Still, I don't ever recall 7 p.m. closings for the Studios in July. Ever. Like even 2002.

:shrug:
Fan: Derived from the word Fanatic. By definition someone who is enthusiastically supportive.

We can butt heads forever, but in my view you post deliberately more negative than positive posts in regard to WDW to incite the forums to argument moreso than to foster healthy debate. I tend to the other, more positive, approach by helping fellow fans further enjoy their visit to WDW. Sharing my joy in the wonders that I see in WDW and discussing those wonders with kindred souls is why I'm here. I dislike your seeming propensity to deride others...And honestly am not entirely clear on why you're here. :shrug:

fa⋅nat⋅ic

  /fəˈnæt

ɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fuh-nat-ik] Show IPA

–noun 1. a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

I absolutely post more threads that are designed to get people to talk ... I mean 8,000 posts on AC or triangles in SSE are fun and all, but really ... I want to provoke discussion and debate. Saying 'I love the Haunted Mansion, don't you too?' really isn't the way to do that.

But I don't like being painted as someone who derides others because that's just not me. This whole thread has turned into a deriding WDW1974 thread with a few folks offering their support and a few trying to discuss the issues I brought up ... but c'mon, it's much more fun to bash the guy who isn't blinded by pixie dust.

Why am I here? Why are you? I am here to discuss Disney.

If the discussion has to be all about how perfect WDW is and how it has never and could never be better and is the best place in the cosmos to vacation, then Steve needs to spell that out to anyone who joins the site.

 

[jt04]

No. There hasn't been any name-calling, just the usual personal character attacks by my good buddy, JT, which never seem to ellicit any notice by the mods. I don't quite get how a thread can become all about an individual but ...

As to your point, I do think the overall level of 'thinking' on this site has improved leaps and bounds from when I first started reading ... but it still has definitely got a way to go.
Points about the incredible cuts in parks hours, Disney's resort discounts, AC being manipulated to save money and cut guest comfort, dining increases etc ... no one wants to talk about them. They'd go after me ... well, since I am headed to the beach shortly they can have the whole night to spew pages of anti-WDW1974 rhetoric.

But I don't care because ... well, I just made plans to go to WDW!!!

Yeah, until everyone agrees with your "thinking" no doubt. Do you really think Disney adjusted the temperature to "cut guest comfort"?

When Disney announced they were cutting their "carbon footprint" it follows that AC settings would be moderated. I'm sure Al Gore would approve as AC's are one of the largest power users and easiest way to conserve with by adjusting temperatures. You can't be an advocate for corporations being more socially responsible and then complain when you are "inconvienenced" by those changes. And the more green initiatives are implemented the more you will have to adjust. And playing the "they turned down my AC because of corporate greed" ploy will only fall on deaf ears. Sorry, it just fails as an argument.

 

[maggiegrace1]

Dana, I think so many folks miss very basic points.

If someone wants to say the BAH, Stitch's Great Belch-off, McPooh's Playground are wonderful and they enjoy them, then that's their opinion and they are welcome to it. I may disagree with their taste, but I wouldn't call them idiots or question their value to the species let alone the fan community.

I have never called an individual an idiot here for their opinions (or anything else that I can think of) and there are a few posters who seem to live here to bait me.That should be very obvious. (where's my favorite lapdog and the old man in Texas to back me up?) It's pretty clear those folks either just want my voice silences or feel threatened by me, so they turn threads into shouting matches while playing the victim ...kind of like a five-year old who punches his little brother while Mom is watching, while saying 'I didn't do anything.'

But you're missing a very fundamental point if you believe I think you or anyone is an idiot for enjoying WDW as it is. I, obviously, still do so myself in spaded or I wouldn't even be planning this trip. I'd be an idiot and a hypocrite if I didn't feel that way.

But the pixie dust crowd really is attempting to drown out any real discussion of Disney that paints the company, the parks and management in any kind of negative (or true) light.

Ok..well then I misunderstood you when you said the idiot thing..my apologies..:wave:

As for the real discussions about the company in a negative light..I do not get in very many of them because of the way I feel about WDW...I will not say company because as you know I am into all of that..I see Disney in a completely different way then you and a lot of posters here do from a company stand point.

I read threads that interest me..and I respond if I feel I have something to say..and most of your threads I do read..because as I have said before..I do enjoy them..I do enjoy the things you say..though I do not agree with everything you say or how you look at things....and you know that.

I do not try or want to silence you...and I do not feel threatened by anything you say at all..I just say what I feel about things when I see the need and granted most of the time..well all of the time....it will be in favor of the company. and will more then likely disagree with you..but..it is all good...thats what is fun about these forums...

Oh...and I do not like the hat...or Stitch..I do like Poohs playground...Maggie enjoys it...

 

[Daddymouse]

So ... been pondering a July 4th up at the World (if I can't get far, far away) and a few things popped into my mind making me think twice:

Park Hours. Has anyone looked at July? Is this another example of cutting as many as they can now ... only to toss some back at last minute by making it appear busier than expected? I can't ever recall MK closing before midnight on the Fourth, yet it's down for 11 p.m. on that night and most others are 10 (those were summer hours during dark days earlier this decade). TPFKaTD-MGMS actually has 7 p.m. closings scheduled in July ... something that I'd love to believe is only a mistake but I doubt it. And a 9 p.m. close on the Fourth with no pyro? Even DAK is on a 9-7 schedule. Only EPCOT keeps its 'traditional' schedule (by that I mean what people have come to expect the past decade, not what they used to offer).

So ... then I start looking at AP rates (although I may have a CM book me something better if I indeed go) ... for all the discounting that's been going on ... and all the dire summer projections ... well, the discounts are paltry. $74/$84 at values, $114/$124 at mods, $154/$184 at DAK Lodge (this is the only one at the lower price point that really feels like a deal). I'd like to check out the new rooms at Coronado since my last stay there was right after the last renovation started in 2003 and these rooms do look even better ... but at those prices I could likely Priceline an amazing resort for less (JW Marriott, Gaylord Palms, Omni Championsgate, DD Hilton even).

Of course, does a Spirit want to stay at a resort where he can return to his room after baking in theme parks only to find the room is musty and hot because the AC has either been turned off or turned up?

And dining? ... Prices keep going up ($15 for a lower quality lunch buffet at Trail's End that was $4.99 in the mid-90s?!?!) ... Of course there's Sanna and the Wave, which haven't been tried yet (and usually Disney's new locations are really great when they debut)

Freshness? What will WDW offer me that is new from my last visit a few months back? Stitch's LCI Dance Disaster? Our new Prez in the HoP (OK, this at least mildly interests me).

Of course I really want to spend a few afternoons at Aquatica and ride Manta, so I have the feeling I'm going to wind up in O-Town ... but ... I'm sure not excited by the prospects.

Anyone want to talk me into a trip?

Don't go!

 

[whylightbulb]

Wow. When did I say he was a jerk? Umm... try NEVER. He is being over dramatic and negative. You are the jerk. Have a magical day.

He is not over dramatic in any way. You are pretty young and therefore don't have the perspective here. That is not a personal attack, it's simply a fact. Both he and I have been visiting WDW since it opened and have seen a very dramatic decline in standards and quality. All I was saying was that there was no need to personally attack him for stating these facts. You can't assume that just because he chooses to educate many on this forum by complaining, that he would walk around and abuse cast members as you implied. I apologize if I came across as a jerk. I'm just calling it as I see it. If you go back and look at your post you might see that it could easily come across as, "hey buddy, stay away from me...I don't have any desire to get to know you or listen to what you have to say."

 

[DisneyChik17]

You really are magical. I'd love to be greeted by you to start my magical WDW vacation.

I thought you didn't believe in the magic? Just saying.

And you know, I happen to be really good at my job and am very much looking forward to greeting people who see the magic, are enthusiastic over there first trip, or their frist trip in 10 years, maybe the trip where they are going to propose or are looking at all the things for wedding, or a child's first trip. You though, are not the kind of person I look forward to seeing, but you won't even know the difference.

You seem to be someone who goes out of habit, not desire. You have nothing better to do than walk around and criticize. If you are going to do that, why not go stir up trouble elsewhere? I just can't see spending all that money and time if I know I am coming back miserable each trip, which is how you come across.

 

[WDW1974]

I agree...

I think only JT and 1974 have called names though in this thread.

No. I haven't.

But I am wondering if people here just keep saying something does that make it true?

This is really ridiculous. People need to read what is written and not what they want to read.

 

[whylightbulb]

Don't go!

Nice. How many ways can one state that he or she can be disappointed with WDW because of its declining quality and standards, but still love to go because he or she grew up with it and because, despite its much lower standards, it's still unique...for now? He never said he hated the place.

 

[EpcoTim]

I've been on this forum for years and there has always been criticism of WDW here. To act like WDW74 brought it here is absurd. Personally, I think he heard through his contacts that we were getting results in some areas and Disney was starting to pay attention to this forum and he got in post-haste to grab some attention. He is a rude, self-promoting cad who trashes anyone that does not submit to his viewpoint. And in all likelihood he is laughing at those who do defend him. Some are submitting and that is what motivates him. They are the ultimate DoM's in my book. The guy is common.

PS- Aren't you just a little embarrased to think of yourself as the decider of what or who is more "evolved"? But then you do defend 74 so maybe you really do believe that because he definitely has an exalted view of himself.

Whoa......back the bus up, man.

First off, when did I even come close to stating that 74 was the originator of criticism? I didn't. (I've been on the boards longer than you, btw, I know criticism has been around since inception.)

Second, your opinion of him is fine, it's your opinion. I don't know him just like I don't know you. I'm not vouching for his character just like I couldn't vouch for yours. And I never stated that in my post. What I did state in my post was that I shared the same thoughts and feelings with him on this subject. I'm not going to take sides or let an unknown to me internet-forum-social-hierarchy have any bearing on my thoughts and opinions at all.

Third, if he wants to laugh at me, fine by me. Doesn't change my thoughts on the subject.

Fourth, when and how did I declare myself as "the decider of what or who is more "evolved"?

 

[WDW1974]

I don't hear anyone calling for no debate. What I do hear is people requesting 74 treat people on this forum with respect. That is not unreasonable. But if he can't I will be here to challange him. And sooner or later I am sure the mods will tire of the way he treats forum members. We were having great debates about WDW quality long before he showed up. But he is like a small child that walks into a room of adults and starts acting like a clown so as to get all eyes on themselves.

Seems to be some sort of malfunction going on. Maybe we can all wave until he stops. :wave:

I love the game JT ... you sit back and call names and bait and distort and then play the victim. You mention the mods because you want to plant the seed that I am some how being a bad spirit that needs to be banished from the magical realm so that peace, harmony and pixie dust can rule the kingdom again.

You are a sad character, incapable of debate, so you wish to silence other voices.

Not gonna work.

 

[maggiegrace1]

?

I think if people are accepting and like anything/everything Disney throws their way just because it is Disney then they are idiots. That again sounds like someone pledging blind faith in a religion or political party and refusing to think for themselves.

...

No. I haven't.

But I am wondering if people here just keep saying something does that make it true?

This is really ridiculous. People need to read what is written and not what they want to read.

The bolded part is what I was talking about...

There are people here and everywhere who do really accept and like everything Disney throws at them...and just because they do does not make them an idiot...

Maybe to you..but that is once again your opinion.

So, anyone here who reads that statement...and does accept whatever Disney does will take that as you calling them an idio because well..you are.

 

[whylightbulb]

I thought you didn't believe in the magic? Just saying.

And you know, I happen to be really good at my job and am very much looking forward to greeting people who see the magic, are enthusiastic over there first trip, or their frist trip in 10 years, maybe the trip where they are going to propose or are looking at all the things for wedding, or a child's first trip. You though, are not the kind of person I look forward to seeing, but you won't even know the difference.

You seem to be someone who goes out of habit, not desire. You have nothing better to do than walk around and criticize. If you are going to do that, why not go stir up trouble elsewhere? I just can't see spending all that money and time if I know I am coming back miserable each trip, which is how you come across.

All he is saying is that Disney should deliver up to the standards that it set for itself from the beginning. He still enjoys going, just as I do. Imagine how much more you would enjoy your job if the Disney product, in every department, was as good as it used to be.

I remember when I was a cast member there. We got 100% medical, we were treated like royalty and it was truly a fun place to work. It isn't near what it used to be in terms of the workplace.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Nice. How many ways can one state that he or she can be disappointed with WDW because of its declining quality and standards, but still love to go because he or she grew up with it and because, despite its much lower standards, it's still unique...for now?He never said he hated the place.

Yes, but he found something to be dissatisfied about and therefore he hates the place. He's not cool enough to fry is behind watching the new Stitch stage show or pay $43 + tax and tip for a dinner in the castle or accept the Yetti and SEE's ending for what they are now so he hates WDW and everything it stands for.