Universal to Invest $1.5 Billion in Orlando Resort

[JT3000]

People keep saying this.. which I understand PRIOR to actually getting to WDW.. but how does anyone argue that when standing inside WDW and people are picking which bus to ride? The point brought up was based on attendance numbers.. and that 'ignorance of the other parks' doesn't last long once they are on property.

Understood, but such 'gotchas' wouldn't account for the dominating lead MK has in clicks, every year, for the last 30 years. So it's not just ignorance keeping MK on top.. and it's not the addition of new attractions as there has been little to none... so how can one argue adding attractions is the only way to attract people? MK has proven otherwise.. consistently.

That's the thing -- MK doesn't need new attractions to attract people (yet.) They'll come anyway (so far.) That's its biggest problem. They haven't added any major attractions because they haven't needed to. If you don't understand why this is a problem, it's because I'm not a Disney executive. I don't care how much money they make by offering a stale product. I'm a guest. I only care about what goes into the park for me to experience, the experience I'm paying them for, and those offerings have been lacking for two decades straight now.

About the MK not getting an E-ticket in X years. People keep focusing in on that one point and ignoring the much more complex positioning of the resort.

I don't care about the resort's "positioning." I care about my experience at the resort. The fact that they've failed to add a major attraction to their flagship park for so long is not a trifling matter. It has a negative effect on my long term experience there.

Certainly - people are free to be lunatics if they chose to be But you're going to have an uphill battle when you try to go against the grain with no regard for how things are intended to be.. like complaining DAK isn't worth $100/day.

I'm a lunatic for wanting to spend the day at Disney? Well that's not exactly a glowing endorsement. But you're absolutely right, Disney has made it incredibly inconvenient for people who don't require the entire vacation treatment to visit their resort. This is a BAD thing.

'fans' focus too much on attendance estimates.

I'll remember that the next time you bring up attendance estimates.

The job of an additional gate was not to be the most visited park in the country.. it was to extend the stay of visitors and get a higher portion of the guests's available vacation spending dollars.

Using this logic, the other gates are merely secondary and the Magic Kingdom is primary, the main reason anyone goes to WDW. So, with that in mind, how is it excusable that MK has gone so long without any major additions?

One shouldn't try to apply 'isolated amusement park' measures to something built to operate entirely different.

The Magic Kingdom existed before anything else on property, except a few hotels. It was designed very much as an "isolated amusement park." If it can no longer operate as such, due to some wonky business structure that only caters to tourists on lengthy vacations, then I guess I'll spend my free day at some other amusement park. Less business for Disney.

 

[flynnibus]

In the past 4 years Disney has switched out @ MK Spectro for a refurbed MSEP, Celebrate a Dream Come True Parade, Move It! Shake It! Celebrate It! Street Party then at DHS there has been Disney Stars and Motor Cars Parade, Block Party Bash andPixar Pals Countdown To Fun!

MSEP was rehab'd for DCA.. MK simply took it as it was. There was nothing 'new', just let one tired parade be replaced by another old parade. And street party? I would have thought people would have been denying it's existance to save face.

Stars and Cars parade was nearly a decade old. The Pixar parade was again, another recycled parade from DCA simply relocated here. There hasn't been a 'new' parade in ages. I don't count getting guests to come out and dance for Disney a parade.. I call it a disgrace.

 

[flynnibus]

I think this is where the $40 million number came from:

http://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/...er-stunning-visuals-in-transformers-ride.294/
http://images.creativecow.net/1027/transformers.jpg

So what looks to be a cut from something, but linked sources in that forum post. The actual content that forum post lifted from is here
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/05/nvi...ing-visuals-in-transformers-ride/?sf4416005=1

Meanwhile, an AP story claims $100 million
http://news.yahoo.com/transformers-roll-universal-studios-ride-151048091--finance.html

NYT also says $100 million
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/b...-takes-aim-at-disney.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Variety has a detailed story on the 3D tech.. also says over $100 million
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118054451?refCatId=13

Hollywoodreporter says $200 million
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/transforming-transformers-3d-ride-335500

Given the stories about 'most complex project ILM every did' and using everything they had.. I find it hard to believe they did a ride system, building, cutting edge show projection, AND all the ILM work for the lesser number. But that's just me.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

This decade might not be good to be a theme park owner. But it will be great to be a theme park visitor.

 

[disney fan 13]

Wow... The WDW fans are really coming out to fight on this thread.

 

[TalkingHead]

So what looks to be a cut from something, but linked sources in that forum post. The actual content that forum post lifted from is here
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/05/nvi...ing-visuals-in-transformers-ride/?sf4416005=1

Meanwhile, an AP story claims $100 million
http://news.yahoo.com/transformers-roll-universal-studios-ride-151048091--finance.html

NYT also says $100 million
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/b...-takes-aim-at-disney.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Variety has a detailed story on the 3D tech.. also says over $100 million
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118054451?refCatId=13

Hollywoodreporter says $200 million
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/transforming-transformers-3d-ride-335500

Given the stories about 'most complex project ILM every did' and using everything they had.. I find it hard to believe they did a ride system, building, cutting edge show projection, AND all the ILM work for the lesser number. But that's just me.

Disney overspends. Universal doesn't.

 

[JT3000]

Given the stories about 'most complex project ILM every did' and using everything they had.. I find it hard to believe they did a ride system, building, cutting edge show projection, AND all the ILM work for the lesser number. But that's just me.

I have no idea what either attraction will cost, but those articles are for Hollywood's version. Universal Orlando doesn't have to spend a dime on design work, as it was already done. They just have to build it. Which means it will inevitably cost much less.

 

[HTF]

Because the HW facade screams 100 Million dollars were spent here. Singapore got stuck with the R&D bill since it was part of their original budget. You take out the R&D and the ride costs between 40-45 million dollars.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney overspends. Universal doesn't.

ILM is expensive.. UNI has little say in that. Producing that much CGI at that resolution and in 3D, and with all the visual distortions = crazy money.

 

[flynnibus]

Singapore got stuck with the R&D bill since it was part of their original budget. You take out the R&D and the ride costs between 40-45 million dollars.

a guess or sourced?

I have no idea what either attraction will cost, but those articles are for Hollywood's version. Universal Orlando doesn't have to spend a dime on design work, as it was already done. They just have to build it. Which means it will inevitably cost much less.

The building has already been described as different - so yes, there will be design work. The most expensive stuff (the film) should be the same, but lets stop exaggerating to try to make the points.

 

[WDW1974]

MK doesn't need to keep adding more attractions to bring back some glory - they need to polish and invigorate what they already have and make it desirable again.

I pretty much agreed with everything that came before the above, so I dropped it out. Too many words and many people won't read.

I don't disagree with the above, but I will add the caveat that I think the alleged No. 1 theme park in the world should get one major addition every 5-7 years tops. The last E-Ticket was Splash Mountain back in 1992 (remember, when we still had a middle class and you didn't have to be molested to get on an airliner, which would then serve you a hot meal in coach and not charge you for your luggage?) and unless something drastic happens there's every reason to believe they'll go many, many years without one.

That's just not how it should be done.

As others have stated, there are plenty of folks who only visit MK or, usually, MK and EPCOT. So adding TSMM or EE does absolutely nothing in a park where the parades are 40 and 11 years old, respectively.

 

[WDW1974]

Except whose running around acting like the number attached to NextGen is big news and sign of great expansions to come? Both are big numbers.. but what I'm responding to is what people are inferring from the number. Even still.. Nextgen over the last 3 years (and proof of the investment).. vs promises for spending for the next 10 years. One is in motion.. one is just plans.

I'm not doubting their ambition.. I'm saying 'keep it in context' and don't count your chickens until they've hatched.

Except UNI is actually building, even without announcing things formally.

Disney announces things and never builds them and has a history of it.

I enjoy (and agree) with most of your posts, but I can't help but think of your style as that as similar to a regular caller to a friend's radio talk show. We'll call the dude 'Saul' and my friend would always refer to him as 'the guy who picks wings off of flies' ...

 

[WDW1974]

NextGen is in motion and Uni is just promises? You do realize that USF has 3, count them THREE, full blown E-Tickets under construction as we speak. How many Es does WDW have under construction? The last E WDW built was 6 years ago in DAK. The MK hasn't had a major in a generation. And they are dragging a 40 year old parade down Main Street at night, and an 11 year old parade at 3pm. Disney has elevated "resting on their laurals" to an art form.

I hate when I skip a few days and then post without reading through a thread ... I may have just said some of what you said already!

 

[WDW1974]

Context Context Context.... what UNI is building now is not the next 10 years worth of spending.. nor does it represent the full billion in discussion.

When someone tries to compare to NextGen (as WDW'74 did) it's not really the same thing considering one is nearing rollout and the other is a strategic plan more than 3x the visible horizon.

Context Context Context

I disagree. Comparing how two direct competitors are choosing to 'invest' in their FL resorts is very fair ... if you've been around here (as I know you have) you know that even fanbois trot out Next gen as Disney's answer to Potter and excuse for why the parks are rotting.

The context is UNI spends wisely and in a way that directly affects guest satisfaction and WDW doesn't.

 

[marni1971]

Just a thought... WDW may have added small plussed here and there, but has sure added many minuses too.

If you can add a minus.

 

[PhilharMagician]

MSEP was rehab'd for DCA.. MK simply took it as it was. There was nothing 'new', just let one tired parade be replaced by another old parade. And street party? I would have thought people would have been denying it's existance to save face.

Stars and Cars parade was nearly a decade old. The Pixar parade was again, another recycled parade from DCA simply relocated here. There hasn't been a 'new' parade in ages. I don't count getting guests to come out and dance for Disney a parade.. I call it a disgrace.

I think it is a disgrace also, but a majority of the people on this board were jumping up and down when MSEP was to finally come back to MK. I for one was not one of them. I would prefer to have the old stale Spectro. The new dance, jump and wiggle parades that are turning up to me are a waste of time and money, but somebody likes them because they are lined up 20 people deep to watch.

The point I was making was that the OP said nothing new in 4 years. Well these were all in place of the past 4 years. There was change. Maybe change was not in my favor or yours, but the fact is that there were new parades. For Uni when they add a parade or a night time show it is new. It has no chance of being a plant, copy or stale since it did not exist before.

 

[PhilharMagician]

It may have been a large expansion, but it is certainly not an entirely new resort. It was an addition to an existing resort and, for the large part, was geared exclusively towards current and new-DVC members. It did not create additional rooms for the general public on the whole, nor has any DVC expansion to any current hotel ever been created to do so. Sure, Kidani Village and Bay Lake Tower are very LARGE additions, but the vast majority of people that stay there are DVC members.

I did not realize that DVC members were considered not general public? I thought they were people that prepurchased vacation time for the future. Also anyone can book a room in a DVC resort.

Art of Animation is, in the last five years, by definition, the only 100% completely new resort, open to anyone wishing to stay on property at a price range where they are guaranteed to get a high occupancy rate (although I am of the understanding that AoA has been struggling to gain footing since opening).

AoA was the re-engineered completetion of the POP Century resort. Wouldn't it technically be part of that resort? What defines a new resort?

Universal is creating a brand new resort that is ALSO geared towards a different market, and for guests willing to stay on-site but not willing to pay the high price tag for their current offerings, it is a definite plus for the resort.

That is a smart thing for Universal to do. They see how that worked for Disney and they are copying the model and finally offering a value option resort on property instead of sending guests to other motels.

 

[disneyflush]

I agree. However, the business challenge facing WDW right now is that its numbers are soft. Sources suggest there is real concern within the upper echelons of TWDC that WDW numbers are flat to declining, something that's sure to send waves of panic throughout management.

To follow-up with what you suggest, most "normal" (i.e. anyone who doesn't post on these forums regularly ) people's Orlando cycle time is in the multi-year range. Mom and Dad want to take Little Johnny & Little Sue to WDW when they're 7 and 5 so they can be treated like a pirate and princess. Add 4 or 5 years to that. Little Johnny is now 12; he doesn't want to be a pirate, he wants to ride roller coasters. 9 year-old Little Sue doesn't want to dress up like a princess; she thinks the Minions are adorable, better than a puppy. Now they see that cool TV ad pushing Harry Potter and that family that used to be guaranteed to return to WDW once every 4-5 years is now instead heading up the road to Universal.

What exactly is WDW going to do to win back Mom, Dad, Little Johnny, and Little Sue?

WDW has been running the same basic ad for the last 10 years. That's because they haven't added anything that sells well in a 30 second spot. As you've seen from the Universal ad, WWOHP sells very well. Universal seems to believe that they can sell WWOHP2 just as successfully.

Sadly, advertising (effectively) "it's not as expensive as you think" is a really bad hook. All our lovely family of 4 knows is that they spent $4000 five years ago to vacation at WDW. Now, after ticket price increases, food price increases, and hotel price increases, that same vacation is over $5000. That's the reality of what's happened to WDW prices, no matter what the ad says. It doesn't encourage repeat business.

Just like TWDC tried to get into the Internet business in the 1990s, NEXTGEN sounds like a wiz-bang technology that was sold to a bunch of non-tech senior executives who spend half their day on their iPhones. IMHO, it just doesn't "sell" WDW the way that WWOHP "sells" UOR.

WDW needs to stop selling the same 1980s nostalgia trap it's been pushing for 20 years and figure out a way to bring back the business that seems to have been driving up I-4 to visit the Boy Who Won't Be Named.

This is brilliant.

 

[PhilharMagician]

You've written several interesting items. Please be patient with me as I respond.

Sure, I like having more DVC resorts to stay at but it's not about me; it's about what's best for WDW as a whole. Building DVCs doesn't help draw in visitors. It only helps TWDC's short-term bottom line because they are effectively collecting payments today for vacations people are going to be taking decades from now. Financially, it's going to come back to haunt them. Besides, why do I need to stay at more DVC resorts unless they add something new for me to see?

I would have to assume that Disney is empolying some very smart finacial people that have studied and worked in the timeshare industry alond with the theme park industry and know what they are doing since tWDC did $41 billion in revenue in 2011. I am not the DVC model was design to bring in new guests and it would not make sense if they planned on using it for that purpose. Like you said these DVC members are going to be taking vacations for decades and also paying for the overhead for their respective DVC resort while doing it. This is a good thing and shows financial security for the future and even if another extended slowdown like what happened after 911 happens, the DVC owner will be paying to support the resort even if they do not visit. I really do see how this will haunt tWDC in the future. The only exception that comes to my mind is when the contracts run out and they either have to sell an extension to the contract (like they did with OKW) or they will have to find new respective buyers for these points.

Now, DVC sales have slowed according to the monthly deed filings and that may be signs of either nearing saturation in the DVC market or the lack of appealing options for potential buyers. When the GFDVC goes on sale there may be a short boost in sales. TWDC knows their occupancy rates in each catagory of room that they offer and will adjust as needed.

Just compare a Universal AP to a WDW AP. With a discount code from the Internet, we were able to purchase Universal's Preferred Annual Pass for $199 even though we don't live in FL, less than the price of a WDW 2-day Park Hopper ticket. Sweet!

Wow, that is a great price since they are $224. Yeah, it is almost $250 for a 2 day PH for WDW. For the $199 I would also buy the AP.

 

[PhilharMagician]

I pretty much agreed with everything that came before the above, so I dropped it out. Too many words and many people won't read.

I don't disagree with the above, but I will add the caveat that I think the alleged No. 1 theme park in the world should get one major addition every 5-7 years tops. The last E-Ticket was Splash Mountain back in 1992 (remember, when we still had a middle class and you didn't have to be molested to get on an airliner, which would then serve you a hot meal in coach and not charge you for your luggage?) and unless something drastic happens there's every reason to believe they'll go many, many years without one.

That's just not how it should be done.

As others have stated, there are plenty of folks who only visit MK or, usually, MK and EPCOT. So adding TSMM or EE does absolutely nothing in a park where the parades are 40 and 11 years old, respectively.

I agree 100% with the need of a new attraction, but when you add in stock holders, pencil pushers and almost zero real competition it seems the feeling is like there is no reason to push the envelope which has definately been somewhat the norm for many years. HP and it's popularity at Universal may be the best thing that can happen for WDW fans. Investment @ WDW has definately been on the rise unfortunately there is a lot of ground to make up. Hopefully with the new additions coming across town maybe a few more big projects will finally see the light.