Universal to Invest $1.5 Billion in Orlando Resort

[flynnibus]

Just ignore him. I usually like his posts but most of what he's said here is plain mush. It's fun to speculate!

Except people (including the original article) are not speculating - they are claiming fact and things as done. I ask questions that any investor would ask. How do you commit more money than you EVEN MAKE for several years into expansion into a mature product without introducing new revenue streams? I'm not questioning their intention to expand or that they are.. more the details being shared. And when you can't get any consensus on what those details really are - its hard to take someone at face value alone.

Don't you think Comcast would be looking for some political and local goodwill in a battle ground state in a contested election season in a downturn economy if they were signing up to spend 1.5 BILLION in Florida alone? That kind of spending just isn't about fan sites, but can become a major bargaining chip when dealing with government.

 

[bubbles1812]

Except people (including the original article) are not speculating - they are claiming fact and things as done. I ask questions that any investor would ask. How do you commit more money than you EVEN MAKE for several years into expansion into a mature product without introducing new revenue streams? I'm not questioning their intention to expand or that they are.. more the details being shared. And when you can't get any consensus on what those details really are - its hard to take someone at face value alone.

Don't you think Comcast would be looking for some political and local goodwill in a battle ground state in a contested election season in a downturn economy if they were signing up to spend 1.5 BILLION in Florida alone? That kind of spending just isn't about fan sites, but can become a major bargaining chip when dealing with government.

Where in the world did this come from? If you are so big on citing sources, please tell me where your last paragraph came from. OR is it all speculation, which you don't seem to like? I'm not saying it's not possible (though I'd say you are making your way towards the conspiracy theory/tin foil hat line) but if you are saying this is the only reason they are putting out these numbers for investment, especially when one can reasonably guestimate the cost of many of the things we already know are coming, I think you are terrible wrong.

You seem to have a need to be right, and again, I usually have agreed with much of what you post in other threads, but I still find most of what you have said in this thread to be mushy and at times illogical.

 

[flynnibus]

Where in the world did this come from? If you are so big on citing sources, please tell me where your last paragraph came from. OR is it all speculation, which you don't seem to like? \

I never said I don't like speculation and you need to reread the posts if that's your take. What I don't like is misleading or mispresentation of information.. especially speculation as fact.

Now about that paragraph.. Ever read your local paper? Or pay any attention at all to political lobbying? Why do you think people put 'Made in the USA' proudly on their products? Getting a major company to invest in your area (either by expanding, moving in, etc) is a major political win for officials and are common political topics. Businesses are also smart and know they can often win concessions from a municipality in exchange for commiting to the economy or locality. Even when there are no concessions.. incumbents are eager to promote POSITIVE economic impacts in their area.. as a way of associating themselves with positive things happening in their area.

I'm not saying it's not possible (though I'd say you are making your way towards the conspiracy theory/tin foil hat line) but if you are saying this is the only reason they are putting out these numbers for investment, especially when one can reasonably guestimate the cost of many of the things we already know are coming, I think you are terrible wrong.

I said NOTHING of the sort - I was commenting on the LACK of acknowledgement actually. That normally such massive investment plans in a single site are not done in secrecy. Doing things like massive hotel expansions, expansions of retail, and other things can't be done in isolation - they require interaction with the government. And the more happy the government is with you, the easier things are to get done when that time comes. And what better way to make a politician happy and support you.. then to give them earth shattering, POSITIVE news heading into an election?

Remember.. there is no acknowledgement from UNI at all about this rumored 1.5b 10 year plan for USF.

I just think the 1.5 billion number is being used for shock value and without (or relative references to compare it with) it the story loses all of it's bite. We know the expansion that is happening short term, and we know of expansion planned near term, but faith in a TEN year outline as actually happening?

Then ask yourself.. when someone tells you how the economy is going to be in 2022... think about how much weight you put into that claim. Or imagine Disney told you what their attendance was going to be in 2022.. would you count on that as reliable?

Call me.. skeptical.

But instead of addressing the actual financials.. posters have tried to attack my reading comprehension (twice.. both sticking their foot in their mouth in the process) and call me a Uni hater.. when I'm anything of the sort. Heaven forbid anyone dare question a local marketing guy's uncited reference.

 

[AndyMagic]

Call me.. skeptical.

But instead of addressing the actual financials.. posters have tried to attack my reading comprehension (twice.. both sticking their foot in their mouth in the process) and call me a Uni hater.. when I'm anything of the sort. Heaven forbid anyone dare question a local marketing guy's uncited reference.

There is nothing wrong with being skeptical and no one is saying the 1.5 billion figure is absolutely 100% accurate. However, it is safe to say, given all of the evidence we have and all of the cranes currently in the ground, that the number isn't that far off the mark. The fact that Universal hasn't given an "acknowledgement" as you put it isn't surprising since that kind of information is rarely trumpeted and is often only discussed during shareholder meetings. Universal hasn't "acknowledged" the London expansion at the Studios but I assure you it is being built. Universal hasn't "acknowledged" the enormous E-ticket being built in the middle of the park but I assure you guests will be lining up to ride it next year. Should you be "skeptical" of those projects as well just because some PR person hasn't crafted the appropriate documents for you? Yes, it is true that anything can happen and the remaining investment might not see the light of day. Comcast might go bankrupt, there might be a hurricane that destroys the theme parks, and the Earth's magnetic poles may shift causing worldwide earthquakes. Just because there is a chance something might not be true or might not happen doesn't mean we don't have the right to discuss it.

 

[bubbles1812]

I never said I don't like speculation and you need to reread the posts if that's your take. What I don't like is misleading or mispresentation of information.. especially speculation as fact.

Now about that paragraph.. Ever read your local paper? Or pay any attention at all to political lobbying? Why do you think people put 'Made in the USA' proudly on their products? Getting a major company to invest in your area (either by expanding, moving in, etc) is a major political win for officials and are common political topics. Businesses are also smart and know they can often win concessions from a municipality in exchange for commiting to the economy or locality. Even when there are no concessions.. incumbents are eager to promote POSITIVE economic impacts in their area.. as a way of associating themselves with positive things happening in their area.

Yes, I do read my local paper...or rather, I generally get my news online but same principle. I get what you are saying and I'll even concede that it may be true... but your entire paragraph came out of left field in regards to the discussion at hand. I found it very very odd and still do.

I said NOTHING of the sort - I was commenting on the LACK of acknowledgement actually. That normally such massive investment plans in a single site are not done in secrecy. Doing things like massive hotel expansions, expansions of retail, and other things can't be done in isolation - they require interaction with the government. And the more happy the government is with you, the easier things are to get done when that time comes. And what better way to make a politician happy and support you.. then to give them earth shattering, POSITIVE news heading into an election?

Remember.. there is no acknowledgement from UNI at all about this rumored 1.5b 10 year plan for USF.

They do require interaction with local government true. But remember, Universal hasn't even officially made announcements about HP 2.0 or Transformers. So I question your point about massive investments at a single site not being done in secrecy. Of course, there is concrete evidence in the form of steel beams going up so it's not exactly a secret. But again, no acknowledgement to the general media about what is going on either. I don't think you can interpret either way about Uni's rumored 1.5b 10 year plan. Just because it has not been officially announced doesn't mean it is the figure that will be spent. Disney and Uni both have done projects without acknowledgement/announcement, without stating dollar figures.

I just think the 1.5 billion number is being used for shock value and without (or relative references to compare it with) it the story loses all of it's bite. We know the expansion that is happening short term, and we know of expansion planned near term, but faith in a TEN year outline as actually happening?

I don't think it loses its bite at all. Even if you don't consider the dollar figure. There are known concrete plans. People can again estimate their cost fairly easily. As others broke it down in the thread earlier, most of their known plans add up to at least nearly a billion. So 1.5 billion isn't out of the ball park. Do we know if absolutely everything will go through? No. I suppose not. But as of right now, Uni sure as heck has a better track record of following through on their plans than Disney so I think it's reasonable to surmise that the majority of their plans will go through as well. They clearly want to spend the money.

Then ask yourself.. when someone tells you how the economy is going to be in 2022... think about how much weight you put into that claim. Or imagine Disney told you what their attendance was going to be in 2022.. would you count on that as reliable?

Call me.. skeptical.

The two examples you gave are way way different scenarios in my opinion. It's fine that your skeptical but as I read through the read, you seemed entirely hell bent on being the only one who was right without consideration of what others may have knowledge of or think

But instead of addressing the actual financials.. posters have tried to attack my reading comprehension (twice.. both sticking their foot in their mouth in the process) and call me a Uni hater.. when I'm anything of the sort. Heaven forbid anyone dare question a local marketing guy's uncited reference.

People tried to address the financials. No, not everyone provided cites but then neither did you. I know you aren't a Uni hater and it's fine to question one guys uncited reference but again, I don't think you backed up what you were saying any better than they did.

 

[flynnibus]

They do require interaction with local government true. But remember, Universal hasn't even officially made announcements about HP 2.0 or Transformers. So I question your point about massive investments at a single site not being done in secrecy. Of course, there is concrete evidence in the form of steel beams going up so it's not exactly a secret. But again, no acknowledgement to the general media about what is going on either

very different when talking about changing attractions within your existing park 'right now'.. and setting forth new long term plans that aim to fundamentally shift the amount of business your property does and includes major additions (like hotels) outside the simple 'amusement' category. No one expects the state senator to show up when announcing SpiderMan being updated. But if you are going to set a bold new long term vision for a major employer in the city, that is a huge tax contributor and represents a significant chunk of the tourism industry in the region. That's very different than simply acknowledging we're replacing an attraction.. or even two.

I don't think it loses its bite at all. Even if you don't consider the dollar figure

I don't agree. That's why you see posts like this one...

Any timetable's? (or budget)

The fan community has been conditioned to think about budgets when quantifying how big or grand something will be. You can't get 10mins into a discussion about new attractions without budget coming up.. because its a yardstick fans have grown accustomed to using to gauge how significant something is.

So which do you think carries more punch in a fansite?
"Universal has a new 10 year expansion plan..."
or
"Universal plans to spend 1.5 billion on expansion..."

The two examples you gave are way way different scenarios in my opinion

I don't think so. They illustrate trying to set concrete things beyond the horizon of things you actually control or can accurately predict. Same thing as saying someone has 600 million 'all but garunteed' for things out past that horizon.. well that's like you betting your vacation budget this year on the 2022 world series..

It's fine that your skeptical but as I read through the read, you seemed entirely hell bent on being the only one who was right without consideration of what others may have knowledge of or think

People tried to address the financials. No, not everyone provided cites but then neither did you

My numbers were taken from the Comcast Financial reports - just not linked because those are easily found. My numbers were never contested because they are easily verified... unlike estimates that keep getting circulated like the telephone game. I showed even sourced journalism can't get a consensus on attractions that are already COMPLETED.. (transformer's cost) so I don't agree with your assertion of how easy it is to guesstimate these future attractions.

As I said earlier in the thread... I'm actually more interested in how UNI is looking to alter how people visit and stay at their parks, more than individual attraction budgets. That is how Disney has systematically kept them down for over a decade, even after adding a whole new second park. Sustaining this burst WWOHP started has to include more than just trying to make lightning strike twice. And with such big investments involved, these could be make or break years for the ideals surrounding how park expansion is approached. Successes or failures could have residual impact for a decade beyond. Disney is banking on 'how' people take and interact with a theme park vacation. Uni so far is banking on the HP franchise again followed up with some in-place expansion of existing properties.

I know you aren't a Uni hater and it's fine to question one guys uncited reference but again, I don't think you backed up what you were saying any better than they did.

I appreciate you acknowledging my posts were not pure bias

 

[flynnibus]

There is nothing wrong with being skeptical and no one is saying the 1.5 billion figure is absolutely 100% accurate. However, it is safe to say, given all of the evidence we have and all of the cranes currently in the ground, that the number isn't that far off the mark. The fact that Universal hasn't given an "acknowledgement" as you put it isn't surprising since that kind of information is rarely trumpeted and is often only discussed during shareholder meetings

They take things to shareholder meetings to get approval for things.. when you want promotion.. you take it to the media This isn't something they will need to ask permission for, so its all about positive outlook and promotion they could get out of such news.

Universal hasn't "acknowledged" the London expansion at the Studios but I assure you it is being built. Universal hasn't "acknowledged" the enormous E-ticket being built in the middle of the park but I assure you guests will be lining up to ride it next year. Should you be "skeptical" of those projects as well just because some PR person hasn't crafted the appropriate documents for you?

I'm not, nor ever, questioned the projects underway in the park itself right now. In the context of the thread and original article, we are talking about a 10 year expansion plan. I'm questioning the forward looking things as so garunteed as you painted them. Just like the Disney Decade.. they were concrete ideas, fully intended to be carried through.

Yes, it is true that anything can happen and the remaining investment might not see the light of day. Comcast might go bankrupt, there might be a hurricane that destroys the theme parks, and the Earth's magnetic poles may shift causing worldwide earthquakes. Just because there is a chance something might not be true or might not happen doesn't mean we don't have the right to discuss it.

Another thing I never contested or challenged. You may try to mock the concern over what the future holds.. but no one was planning for the tourism dip after 9/11.. and no one was planning for the tourism dip after the wall street collapse. These are even just recent examples of what can happen within a 10 year horizon that can change plans COMPLETELY regardless of how motivated someone was prior to those industry shifting times. The horizon is not limitless and we must treat things over the horizon as directions.. plans.. not absolutes.

 

[bubbles1812]

I've decided to ignore most of what Flynn said as he's no fun whatsoever and also still made no sense in a lot of posts to me...

I think we have a true Disney believer who simply thinks if Disney didn't do it then Uni will also fail. Just what is under construction will be a big boost for Uni after that just consider it a bonus. I do believe more is coming in the near future not 10 years from now.

I think its a combo of things coming in the near future and down the road. It'll be so exciting. Heck, if just the list from earlier is made at Uni, that's approximately 900 million dollars. That's 900 million more than Disney is currently spending. I'm not sure we'll ever see an official announcement from Uni saying "hey we are going to spend X amount of money over the next 10 years." Think we'll just see them making a steady stream of announcements in regards to new projects. There isn't honestly a reason to so long as they can keep the projects rolling and new people coming in.

I will say I'm in the stock trading world and I do see some bad economic times a coming in 2013-2014 no matter what is done or who is elected President. Will that effect Uni going forward, hard to tell??? Uni is getting the hype and moving forward, even if the economy heads down it may not have much of an effect on Uni. Only time will tell.

I guess it will be interesting if the economy takes a dive again but I suppose investing in infrastructure as Universal is doing is one way to go? I'd have an easier time selling that to skeptical share holders during a hard economic time than I would the concept of something as fluffy and hard to see as say what is going on with Next Gen at Disney.

 

[rnese]

What also needs to be remembered is that Universal is able to more with $1.00 than Disney. I do not think ti would be off to say that what Universal can do with $1.5 billion would require about $2 billion from Disney.

Why is that?

 

[Turtle]

Why is that?

little mermaid cost $100 million in DCA meanwhile Transformers costed $90 million. Considering the massive e-ticket costs less than the average d-ticket, Disney has to utilize their cash better

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why is that?

Many reasons from, surprisingly, a lack of concern for waste, to how issues are dealt with, to the differences in how Walt Disney Imagineering and Universal are structured and operate.

 

[rnese]

Many reasons from, surprisingly, a lack of concern for waste, to how issues are dealt with, to the differences in how Walt Disney Imagineering and Universal are structured and operate.

Got it. How I originally read it, I thought maybe it had to do with regulations or something.

 

[cheezbat]

I just got off a ride on the Mummy and I could definitely tell the difference in the projections. The treasure room, scarabs, and launch screens have all been upgraded.

I'm glad to see so much money and love being spent on upkeep as well as additions!

 

[HTF]

I just got off a ride on the Mummy and I could definitely tell the difference in the projections. The treasure room, scarabs, and launch screens have all been upgraded.

I'm glad to see so much money and love being spent on upkeep as well as additions!

Still working on a solution to the turn table room as the new projector creates to much unwanted light within the room. No idea on a time table for the fix but it is coming.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Got it. How I originally read it, I thought maybe it had to do with regulations or something.

In terms of regulations the Reedy Creek Improvement District has long given Disney a distinct advantage over all others in the area. But it's an advantage that I would say has mostly been squandered by everything else.

 

[cheezbat]

Still working on a solution to the turn table room as the new projector creates to much unwanted light within the room. No idea on a time table for the fix but it is coming.

That's the only place that needs work in the ride really...it's nice how dark it is in there at the moment.

I hope after all of these projects wrap up, Universal invests in a flume style ride in that park. A water ride is really missing from this park...it'd help out so much on the hot days.

 

[Tom Morrow]

A few days ago I visited UOR after having not been there for few months. I noticed subtle changes and upgrades all around the resort. Its interesting that the place already looks very good and yet this is just the tip of the iceberg of what they are going to be investing.

 

[cheezbat]

Love how Uni just keeps on spending...and new rumors pop up weekly!

I'm still very curious the timetable and themes of the water park they're looking into. I think this will be a major boost for the resort - along with the new hotel.

 

[djlaosc]

Love how Uni just keeps on spending...and new rumors pop up weekly!

I'm still very curious the timetable and themes of the water park they're looking into. I think this will be a major boost for the resort - along with the new hotel.

I think that a Jaws/Amity theme could be good for the new waterpark (especially if they would bring the ride back) - and it could help to please some of the Jaws fans that were upset when the ride was removed, but I don't know whether a "shark attack" would be a good idea for a waterpark - is it a bit tasteless?

 

[GeorgiaPinesRJB]

I think that a Jaws/Amity theme could be good for the new waterpark (especially if they would bring the ride back) - and it could help to please some of the Jaws fans that were upset when the ride was removed, but I don't know whether a "shark attack" would be a good idea for a waterpark - is it a bit tasteless?

Very.