Universal to Invest $1.5 Billion in Orlando Resort

[WDW1974]

I think people are just getting googly over seeing a billion dollar number. But when spread out over 10 years is it even really a number of significance? How does it compare to normal yearly capital investment by disney?

I think it's great news UNI is willing to put forward a policy of continuing improvement and keeps the pressure on Disney. I just don't put a lot of weight into a budget number without any specifics that will tie money into that exclusively and for ANY budget plans that reach beyond the fiscal horizon.

Yes, except Disney is doing exactly that with the $1.5 billion NEXT GEN project. There's no breakdown of it that's been released. No timelines. No real specifics as well. And it's been happening since 2009.

UNI is very obviously spending money on brick and mortar constuction ... on attractions.

Disney is spending on timeshares and ... well, we don't really know ... nebulous NEXT GEN back of house stuff.

 

[maxairmike]

I actually think a bilion dollars for Uni is more exciting than a billion for Disney, because Uni seems to get incredible bang for their buck.

Transformers at USO is supposedly costing $40 million -- now the design was already there from Shanghai, but can you imagine Disney adding a $40 million E-ticket? Mermaid alone cost more than that.

This is a BIG part of the equation. What Universal Creative can do with $100 million, WDI would probably bloat to a $300 million project. What's even more impressive is that of that $40-50 million that is going towards Transformers, a lot of it is probably being spent on the 24/7, breakneck construction compared to those costs for the Singapore and Hollywood projects. That means they've managed to take a $100 million dollar attraction, and by the third version of it (complete with some building and maybe show changes and what should be a much better facade than Hollywood's), spending roughly half for the "same" product with a likely higher construction cost. Anyone here think WDI could do the same thing with a project anymore?

 

[Pentacat]

This is a BIG part of the equation. What Universal Creative can do with $100 million, WDI would probably bloat to a $300 million project. What's even more impressive is that of that $40-50 million that is going towards Transformers, a lot of it is probably being spent on the 24/7, breakneck construction compared to those costs for the Singapore and Hollywood projects. That means they've managed to take a $100 million dollar attraction, and by the third version of it (complete with some building and maybe show changes and what should be a much better facade than Hollywood's), spending roughly half for the "same" product with a likely higher construction cost. Anyone here think WDI could do the same thing with a project anymore?

Don't forget that building in a swamp costs more so you can be sure that if RSR comes to Florida it will have to cost more than the DL version.

Tried to type that with a straight face....didn't work.

 

[yeti]

Transformers at USO is supposedly costing $40 million -- now the design was already there from Shanghai, but can you imagine Disney adding a $40 million E-ticket? Mermaid alone cost more than that.

Nearly double I believe? $40 mill...that's probably the amount paid for Maurice's Popping Machine or whatever it's called.

I might add another competitor getting in on the action too:
http://behindthethrills.com/2012/10...ront-gate-transformation-with-explorers-reef/

Let's see....SeaWorld...Universal...am I missing anyone?

 

[GLaDOS]

^^^That's for SeaWorld San Diego, though I wouldn't be surprised if Orlando didn't see something similar after Antarctica opens.

 

[flynnibus]

No one is saying big theme parks like Universal and Disney should be adding a new mega-ride every year no matter what. We are talking about investing in quality attractions on a semi-regular basis however. Magic Kingdom hasn't added an E-ticket ride in over 20 years. TWENTY YEARS! That's completely insane to me. No other park in the world could get away with it

Because the MK isn't marketed or purchased on its own.. it's sold and purchased as WDW... where there has been tons of expansion in that same period. In the context of what draws people to the property.. focusing in on one park is really 'apples and oranges' because the park isn't an island.

The comment I was responding to was saying its adding attractions that brings people back. I'd argue it's EXPERIENCES that bring people back. An attraction like IJA brings people back over and over again. They don't need an IJA every few years when you build something of the quality of IJA. When so many people on this site go to the park several times a year (when they haven't added anything..) why would we believe you need to keep adding attractions to bring them back. They're showing you they are willing to come to experience what you have over and over. Keep that fresh and relevant and they'll enjoy it. Expanding is something that requires additional long term gain in attendance to support.

Luckily Disney has decades of consumer confidence and support on their side but in the real world, yes, you have to add new attractions every now and then to keep guests coming back. It is how it has always been done since Disneyland opened. Also, adding a new ride once a year doesn't bring a big return on investment for Six Flags because they add carnival rides and an occasional standard roller coaster. Apples and oranges here.

The Six Flags reference is to highlight that if you don't have a reason to bring people back (their attractions aren't seen as desirable enough to keep repeating) then you must defer to 'new' as a reason to draw people in. This is an incredibly expensive way of marketing yourself.. and given the cost of Disney attractions, they can't afford to add perpetually. They must rely on building attractions that will remain draws for a decade or more.

Look at DL.. after the rapid expansion between 55-67/69.. things were basically flat until Space Mountain 77. Then you had BTMRR in 79, FL rebuild in 83, and then Splash in 89 (Edit: forgot star tours in there). Topped off by IJA back in 95. DL hasn't had a E-ticket added since IJA (one could argue the Nemo rebuild possibly..). The key difference IMO is that DL has kept reinventing itself within what it has. Something MK has largely failed to do with some notable exceptions (castle shows, holiday decor).

Having gaps of 5-10 years between major additions has shown to be the normal and not unusual for DL. And WDW is even more insulated from that pressure given it's guests visiting patterns. In both cases, the major additions have been in the RESORT but just not within that same park in the last one to two decades.

MK doesn't need to keep adding more attractions to bring back some glory - they need to polish and invigorate what they already have and make it desirable again.

 

[disney fan 13]

I actually think a bilion dollars for Uni is more exciting than a billion for Disney, because Uni seems to get incredible bang for their buck.

Transformers at USO is supposedly costing $40 million -- now the design was already there from Shanghai, but can you imagine Disney adding a $40 million E-ticket? Mermaid alone cost more than that.

Agreed, though I believe it is 1.5 Billion and not just 1 billion.

^^^That's for SeaWorld San Diego, though I wouldn't be surprised if Orlando didn't see something similar after Antarctica opens.

Hopefully an update to Wild Arctic...

 

[flynnibus]

Yes, except Disney is doing exactly that with the $1.5 billion NEXT GEN project. There's no breakdown of it that's been released. No timelines. No real specifics as well. And it's been happening since 2009.

Except whose running around acting like the number attached to NextGen is big news and sign of great expansions to come? Both are big numbers.. but what I'm responding to is what people are inferring from the number. Even still.. Nextgen over the last 3 years (and proof of the investment).. vs promises for spending for the next 10 years. One is in motion.. one is just plans.

I'm not doubting their ambition.. I'm saying 'keep it in context' and don't count your chickens until they've hatched.

 

[flynnibus]

Transformers at USO is supposedly costing $40 million -- now the design was already there from Shanghai, but can you imagine Disney adding a $40 million E-ticket? Mermaid alone cost more than that.

Is there a source for that number? or is that simply a number thrown out that keeps getting recycled?

I agree UNI gets more bang for the buck (heck, everyone does compared to Disney). I'm just asking...
How much is $100mil/year vs what they normally invest?
How much is $100mil/year vs what Disney invests?

Any investment looks big when you add up everything over a very long period of time.

 

[HTF]

I actually think a bilion dollars for Uni is more exciting than a billion for Disney, because Uni seems to get incredible bang for their buck.

Transformers at USO is supposedly costing $40 million -- now the design was already there from Shanghai, but can you imagine Disney adding a $40 million E-ticket? Mermaid alone cost more than that.

Your on it! The problem with Disney is its payroll and their total disregard of budgeting. Ever been on a job site at Disney? For every one laborer you have two managers. Instead of improvising on a mistake they just build a new one at double the cost.

Also The Orlando Transformers is going to cost several million more due to early completion bonuses. I've heard as much as 10-15 million more. Also remember Universal built the Forbidden Journey for less than the Little Mermaid. Does that give you an idea of how bad it is at WDI when it comes to budgets?

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Because the MK isn't marketed or purchased on its own.. it's sold and purchased as WDW... where there has been tons of expansion in that same period. In the context of what draws people to the property.. focusing in on one park is really 'apples and oranges' because the park isn't an island.

That may be true, but the fact of the matter is, they don't have to market Magic Kingdom as a park all its own. To the vast majority of first-time (and many times, only-time) visitors, the Magic Kingdom IS Walt Disney World. I would venture that at least 40% of the tickets coming through MK gates on a daily basis are 1-day, 1-park tickets. If you're seeing 10,000,000 people a year at MK alone, that's 4,000,000 people that aren't going through any other gate. FOUR MILLION PEOPLE. MK's annual attendance on a yearly basis dwarfs the other three parks, yet they do nothing to invest in it other than a net gain of 1 attraction in an expansion that took far too long to build, and won't even be 100% complete after its so-called "Grand Reveal" on December 6th.

4,000,000 guests don't care what's been added in the last decade at DAK, DHS, or Epcot, if MK (or Disney World as they so ignorantly refer to it) is the only park they're visiting.

Also remember Universal built the Forbidden Journey for less than the Little Mermaid. Does that give you an idea of how bad it is at WDI when it comes to budgets?

Not only did it cost less than Mermaid, the ENTIRE land cost less than Everest.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

That may be true, I just don't think we need to go looking for the lifeboats just yet. There are still people, like me, that will go to Universal once, seeing WWoHP and then taking my happy little butt back down the road to my second home. I do think some of the parks at WDW need some additions, but that is purely from a posterity aspect.

The people you are talking about are the likes of you and me. Fans, die-hards. I know many, MANY people who flew over this year to Orlando only to come back raving about Universal and spreading ho-hum reviews about Disney's Epcot and MK (none of them ever even stepped inside DHS or DAK). You may not think there's any reason to worry, but I guarantee you that if Transformers and Harry Potter 2.0 hasn't got you even slightly trembling, the thought that there's MORE to come even after such enormous projects should terrify you. Moreover like others have mentioned in this thread, a Uni dollar seems to be worth much more than a Disney one these days.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Adding theme parks, lands, and attractions on a regular basis is as much about advertising and press coverage as it is about execution. WWOHP opened over 2 years ago and Universal still runs TV ads for it. (I'm waiting for my first "New Fantasyland" ad.) I assume Universal will be preparing an entire new batch of ads for WWOHP2 and Transformers.

How do you advertise NEXTGEN? Exactly what do you put in an ad to get people excited about it? "Gee, I was saving my money so I could afford a trip to check out the second Harry Potter land but now that Disney lets me get my Fast Passes on my iPhone, well, that changes everything."

Islands Of Adventure attendance is up over 65% since the opening of WWHOP. Universal Studios Florida is sure to experience a similar bump once Transformers and WWOHP2 are complete.

And WDW is doing what? Are they still arguing among themselves over how to fix 2 (possibly 3) of their parks?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Georgia, I was once like you... Visited Universal one time, crucified it beyond belief... Went back another time, ripped it to shreds... Had a miserable time, I complained to management about the treatment we received from Team Members, I made them give me my money back for my HHN tickets, and refused to ever step foot on their property again... Anyone who knows me can tell you how much I bashed Universal... Then, something happened... I opened my mind and allowed for a world of new possibilities to enter...

I received 2 free tickets from Universal for my horrible time as a good faith gesture to come back and experience the parks again... I took them up on their free offer... And, going in with an open mind, I fell in love with the place... I saw the value in Universal, and this was before Potter opened, before Comcast took over, before they had a management team that cared about the parks...

Mummy is an awesome ride.. MIB is the best shooter attraction... Simpsons is fun... Spiderman is the best... Jurassic Park is a must do...

I went back last year, not for 1 day but for 3... Potter is the best themed land I have seen in a long time... The Forbidden Journey has become my 2nd favorite ride behind Spiderman... And this was before Spiderman was refurbished... And Cat in the Hat is now one of my favorite dark rides...

I have yet to experience Despicable Me... I'm excited about Transformers... I am beyond excited about the Potter expansion... And I am on the edge of my seat wondering what else the parks have in store over the next decade... I'm excited, thrilled, and deeply interested in Universal's future...

I can respect your feelings and totally understand where you are coming from... but, I recommend, visit Universal again... And go with an open mind, not a closed one... Don't try to compare it to Disney... They aren't trying to be Disney... When people try to compare it to Disney, they automatically have a bad time... They are setting themselves up to be disappointed... They are closing their minds and are dead set on having fun... Or, they really do enjoy the place and heavens forbid they actually admit to it...

 

[GeorgiaPinesRJB]

Georgia, I was once like you... Visited Universal one time, crucified it beyond belief... Went back another time, ripped it to shreds... Had a miserable time, I complained to management about the treatment we received from Team Members, I made them give me my money back for my HHN tickets, and refused to ever step foot on their property again... Anyone who knows me can tell you how much I bashed Universal... Then, something happened... I opened my mind and allowed for a world of new possibilities to enter...

I received 2 free tickets from Universal for my horrible time as a good faith gesture to come back and experience the parks again... I took them up on their free offer... And, going in with an open mind, I fell in love with the place... I saw the value in Universal, and this was before Potter opened, before Comcast took over, before they had a management team that cared about the parks...

Mummy is an awesome ride.. MIB is the best shooter attraction... Simpsons is fun... Spiderman is the best... Jurassic Park is a must do...

I went back last year, not for 1 day but for 3... Potter is the best themed land I have seen in a long time... The Forbidden Journey has become my 2nd favorite ride behind Spiderman... And this was before Spiderman was refurbished... And Cat in the Hat is now one of my favorite dark rides...

I have yet to experience Despicable Me... I'm excited about Transformers... I am beyond excited about the Potter expansion... And I am on the edge of my seat wondering what else the parks have in store over the next decade... I'm excited, thrilled, and deeply interested in Universal's future...

I can respect your feelings and totally understand where you are coming from... but, I recommend, visit Universal again... And go with an open mind, not a closed one... Don't try to compare it to Disney... They aren't trying to be Disney... When people try to compare it to Disney, they automatically have a bad time... They are setting themselves up to be disappointed... They are closing their minds and are dead set on having fun... Or, they really do enjoy the place and heavens forbid they actually admit to it...

Thanks! I appreciate that undigested information! and I do plan on visiting again, with an open-mind. I want to be proven wrong. I want what everyone is saying to be true and I have no doubt WWoHP isn't just simply freaking amazing! haha still, with that being said, my heart still is with Disney and unless something drastic happens, always will haha

 

[Captain Chaos]

Thanks! I appreciate that undigested information! and I do plan on visiting again, with an open-mind. I want to be proven wrong. I want what everyone is saying to be true and I have no doubt WWoHP isn't just simply freaking amazing! haha still, with that being said, my heart still is with Disney and unless something drastic happens, always will haha

All of our hearts will be with Disney... but that doesn't mean you cannot enjoy or even love Universal... it is a sad day when people think it is one or the other and it can never be both...

 

[flynnibus]

4,000,000 guests don't care what's been added in the last decade at DAK, DHS, or Epcot, if MK (or Disney World as they so ignorantly refer to it) is the only park they're visiting.

If they cared so much - why are they only going to the MK vs where the new attractions are? Don't you see the behavior as kind of contrary to the belief being argued?

 

[flynnibus]

How do you advertise NEXTGEN? Exactly what do you put in an ad to get people excited about it? "Gee, I was saving my money so I could afford a trip to check out the second Harry Potter land but now that Disney lets me get my Fast Passes on my iPhone, well, that changes everything."

Not in marketing I see?
Let's see some spitball things we can come up with on the fly...

• You could put together some concierge style messaging together and advertise that.. 'walk right up...' or 'exclusive seating..' type ad messages.
• The personalized experiences they plan on rolling out scream WDW TV ad... the character talking to the little boy and girl... the kid seeing themselves in the attraction. Talk about a softball...
• Custom and personalized Touring Plans...
• Smart Phone Apps getting you notifications, reservations, etc

That's stuff I threw out without even thinking. Now put a paid professional on it and there is lots that can come of it.

Oh, and how many TV ads have you seen over the years for Fastpass... I guess that investment was a dud too because it wasn't on TV?

 

[flynnibus]

P.S. Please don't take my response as antagonistic. I simply don't think the advertising you suggest will increase attendance at WDW. WDW has been "selling" nostalgia for over a decade, largely because they have nothing else new to sell. IMHO, your ads are nostalgia with new technology.

It still remains the largest driver to WDW... Disney has managed to make a WDW vacation as a 'must do' for families before their kids grow up. Disney doesn't have to tell people about what they will do.. they just have to strike that chord that says 'have that family vacation.. and its more affordable than you think...' (which is the current ads). Disney is above the 'new for 2013!!' ads. As you saw previously.. Disney will milk new additions for YEARS because of the cycle of most visitors. FLE will be 'new' to guests for 4-5 years.

Disney can take the same ads and update them to show what new types of things are out there without calling them out specifically.

Disney has plenty of marketing arms that advertise more specifically (Disney Channel, Radio Disney, promotions, etc). The national ads still aim at the emotional chord.. not the 'book now because we have something new!'. They leave that type of advertising for the day-tripper range around the parks.

NextGen is nothing you will ever see advertised as itself. It's an INITIATIVE.. what you will see are the results of that work and many of those are 'supporting cast' type of features. So you'll see them in the ads, and positioned to catch your eye.. but don't hold your breath for national ads saying 'check out our new RFID bracelets'... that's like Coke advertising it's new manufacturing plant.. instead of it's new soda flavor.

 

[JT3000]

If they cared so much - why are they only going to the MK vs where the new attractions are? Don't you see the behavior as kind of contrary to the belief being argued?

They want to go to Disney World. They don't know or care what's in the other parks, because for all they know, the Magic Kingdom IS Disney World. You're approaching this from a fan point of view. Not everyone who visits the parks, especially Disney's parks, is a fan who has done their research beforehand. Many people only go once in their lives. Others go several times, and if nothing changes, they WILL get bored eventually.

Regardless of whether or not WDW is seen as a package, MK needs to stand on its own. Going 20 years without a major attraction is absolutely ridiculous.

And I don't know why we even need to speculate on some rumored amount of money. Universal is already spending rapidly. The proof is already there, in the form of rising steel beams. Who cares about the specifics of the next ten years? Do we not have enough to be excited about already? And either way, do we really think they're just going to stop once they're done with the current projects? Not likely.