Universal to Invest $1.5 Billion in Orlando Resort

[HTF]

Ehh, regardless of marketing or new tech families will always visit Disney. It's like a rite of passage for children, and a must do for parents to bring their children. But 3-5 years from now instead of a family purchasing a seven day park hopper they might realize another destination has much more to offer since their last visit. That 7 day could turn into a 5 or 4 day park hopper and that's where the damage will be done and 1.5 Billion muscles will be flexed.

 

[melflip8]

I absolutely hope so. However, the last few times this has happened Disney's knee jerk reaction to competition gave us a rushed Hollywood Studios, majorly scaled down Animal Kingdom, and the promise of Avatarland. I hope this will yield a finished product more along the lines of new Fantasyland quality instead. Disney hasn't done so hot with reactionary plans.

As much as I am SO excited about New Fantasyland, I think it was kind of knee jerk, we can do it too kind of thing. Butterbeer vs. LeFou's Brew? Hogsmeade Village vs. Belle's Village? Could be a coincidence, but there is no denying they ran with what was working for Uni...just as Uni has taken LOTS of pointers from what has worked for Disney in the past. My point is, I want it to stay that way, not the other way around.

 

[ParentsOf4]

It still remains the largest driver to WDW... Disney has managed to make a WDW vacation as a 'must do' for families before their kids grow up. Disney doesn't have to tell people about what they will do.. they just have to strike that chord that says 'have that family vacation.. and its more affordable than you think...' (which is the current ads). Disney is above the 'new for 2013!!' ads. As you saw previously.. Disney will milk new additions for YEARS because of the cycle of most visitors. FLE will be 'new' to guests for 4-5 years.

Disney can take the same ads and update them to show what new types of things are out there without calling them out specifically.

Disney has plenty of marketing arms that advertise more specifically (Disney Channel, Radio Disney, promotions, etc). The national ads still aim at the emotional chord.. not the 'book now because we have something new!'. They leave that type of advertising for the day-tripper range around the parks.

NextGen is nothing you will ever see advertised as itself. It's an INITIATIVE.. what you will see are the results of that work and many of those are 'supporting cast' type of features. So you'll see them in the ads, and positioned to catch your eye.. but don't hold your breath for national ads saying 'check out our new RFID bracelets'... that's like Coke advertising it's new manufacturing plant.. instead of it's new soda flavor.

I agree. However, the business challenge facing WDW right now is that its numbers are soft. Sources suggest there is real concern within the upper echelons of TWDC that WDW numbers are flat to declining, something that's sure to send waves of panic throughout management.

To follow-up with what you suggest, most "normal" (i.e. anyone who doesn't post on these forums regularly ) people's Orlando cycle time is in the multi-year range. Mom and Dad want to take Little Johnny & Little Sue to WDW when they're 7 and 5 so they can be treated like a pirate and princess. Add 4 or 5 years to that. Little Johnny is now 12; he doesn't want to be a pirate, he wants to ride roller coasters. 9 year-old Little Sue doesn't want to dress up like a princess; she thinks the Minions are adorable, better than a puppy. Now they see that cool TV ad pushing Harry Potter and that family that used to be guaranteed to return to WDW once every 4-to-5 years is now instead heading up the road to Universal.

What exactly is WDW going to do to win back Mom, Dad, Little Johnny, and Little Sue?

WDW has been running the same basic ad for the last 10 years. That's because they haven't added anything that sells well in a 30 second spot. As you've seen from the Universal ad, WWOHP sells very well. Universal seems to believe that they can sell WWOHP2 just as successfully.

Sadly, advertising (effectively) "it's not as expensive as you think" is a really bad hook. All our lovely family of 4 knows is that they spent $4000 five years ago to vacation at WDW. Now, after ticket price increases, food price increases, and hotel price increases, that same vacation is over $5000. That's the reality of what's happened to WDW prices, no matter what the ad says. It doesn't encourage repeat business.

Just like TWDC tried to get into the Internet business in the 1990s, NEXTGEN sounds like a wiz-bang technology that was sold to a bunch of non-tech senior executives who spend half their days on their iPhones. IMHO, it just doesn't "sell" WDW the way that WWOHP "sells" UOR.

WDW needs to stop selling the same 1980s nostalgia trap it's been pushing for 20 years and figure out a way to bring back the business that seems to have been driving up I-4 to visit The Boy Who Won't Be Named.

 

[flynnibus]

They want to go to Disney World. They don't know or care what's in the other parks, because for all they know, the Magic Kingdom IS Disney World. You're approaching this from a fan point of view. Not everyone who visits the parks, especially Disney's parks, is a fan who has done their research beforehand. Many people only go once in their lives. Others go several times, and if nothing changes, they WILL get bored eventually.

So.. you are saying they goto the MK because
a) they don't know the other parks exist?
or
b) they think the MK has new attractions so they go there.. and just don't know there is nothing new


Neither holds up to how MK is so much repeat visitors.

Regardless of whether or not WDW is seen as a package, MK needs to stand on its own

For what specific reason? I'm not saying it shouldn't get love.. but focusing on a point with blinders on really doesn't make the point anymore valid - it just strengthens one's tunnel vision.

Truth is.. people visit the MK because its the quinesential picture of a Disney park.. and most can't bring themselves to skip it. The property had plenty of growth over that 20 years, including the MK itself. The property works as a unit - not separate city states

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Except whose running around acting like the number attached to NextGen is big news and sign of great expansions to come? Both are big numbers.. but what I'm responding to is what people are inferring from the number. Even still.. Nextgen over the last 3 years (and proof of the investment).. vs promises for spending for the next 10 years. One is in motion.. one is just plans.

I'm not doubting their ambition.. I'm saying 'keep it in context' and don't count your chickens until they've hatched.

NextGen is in motion and Uni is just promises? You do realize that USF has 3, count them THREE, full blown E-Tickets under construction as we speak. How many Es does WDW have under construction? The last E WDW built was 6 years ago in DAK. The MK hasn't had a major in a generation. And they are dragging a 40 year old parade down Main Street at night, and an 11 year old parade at 3pm. Disney has elevated "resting on their laurals" to an art form.

 

[JT3000]

So.. you are saying they goto the MK because
a) they don't know the other parks exist?
or
b) they think the MK has new attractions so they go there.. and just don't know there is nothing new


Neither holds up to how MK is so much repeat visitors

Many of WDW's visitors literally don't know about anything except Magic Kingdom, and maybe Epcot. They actually refer to MK as "Disney World." If they discover that there are, in fact, other things on property once they get here, hey, it's an added bonus! But seriously, I deal with tourists all the time. As an avid Disney fan, I'm not sure that you realize just how little knowledge the average tourist packs along with their luggage.

And with these people, it isn't unrealistic that if they hear about a new attraction at WDW, they'll automatically assume it's in MK. Needless to say, they would be disappointed upon arrival. Universal recently had a similar situation with Uni newbies thinking they had only one park, and Harry Potter was in that park.

Will knowledgeable repeat visitors make this sort of mistake? Probably not, but then the question becomes, "How often are they willing to repeat their visit to MK when the park never has any big additions?"

For what specific reason? I'm not saying it shouldn't get love.. but focusing on a point with blinders on really doesn't make the point anymore valid - it just strengthens one's tunnel vision.

Focusing on what point? I don't understand what you're saying here. And I don't have tunnel vision.

Truth is.. people visit the MK because its the quinesential picture of a Disney park.. and most can't bring themselves to skip it.

This is true of the once-in-a-lifetime or infrequent visitors. They only care that they're at Disney World, yay! Repeat visitors will notice if it gets stale, assuming they're willing to see the park with a critical eye. Some people have lower standards and just don't expect enough for their entertainment dollars.

This is also the same logic that has allowed the park (and the entire resort) to stagnate in the first place. "Don't build it, they'll come anyway."

The property works as a unit - not separate city states

Disney obviously wants to market their resort as a unit. The multi-day ticket pricing structure is just one example of this. It makes plans to experience the resort as a single unit more enticing, and many tourists bite on that strategy. It doesn't mean WDW has to be viewed as a single unit by everyone. I am a local. If I decide I want to go to Magic Kingdom for the day, am I going to care what attractions the other parks offer? No, I'm only going to MK. And if the park is lacking new, exciting offerings, I will notice.They haven't built an E-ticket here in 20 years, and I have certainly noticed.

Considering all of the parks have a different annual attendance, this idea that WDW actually works as a single unit is highly flawed. Equally, I'm sure Universal wishes that their parks worked as a single unit -- they wouldn't have to try so hard to catch USF up to speed with IOA.

 

[flynnibus]

NextGen is in motion and Uni is just promises? You do realize that USF has 3, count them THREE, full blown E-Tickets under construction as we speak

Context Context Context.... what UNI is building now is not the next 10 years worth of spending.. nor does it represent the full billion in discussion.

When someone tries to compare to NextGen (as WDW'74 did) it's not really the same thing considering one is nearing rollout and the other is a strategic plan more than 3x the visible horizon.

Context Context Context

 

[GLaDOS]

Methinks someone doth protest too much.

Me? I'm going to look forward to what I'm getting for 1.5 billion rather than trying to explain it away.

When this baby hits 88 (million plus a few more hundred million) you're gonna see some serious ****!

 

[flynnibus]

Many of WDW's visitors literally don't know about anything except Magic Kingdom, and maybe Epcot.

People keep saying this.. which I understand PRIOR to actually getting to WDW.. but how does anyone argue that when standing inside WDW and people are picking which bus to ride? The point brought up was based on attendance numbers.. and that 'ignorance of the other parks' doesn't last long once they are on property.

And with these people, it isn't unrealistic that if they hear about a new attraction at WDW, they'll automatically assume it's in MK. Needless to say, they would be disappointed upon arrival. Universal recently had a similar situation with Uni newbies thinking they had only one park, and Harry Potter was in that park.

Understood, but such 'gotchas' wouldn't account for the dominating lead MK has in clicks, every year, for the last 30 years. So it's not just ignorance keeping MK on top.. and it's not the addition of new attractions as there has been little to none... so how can one argue adding attractions is the only way to attract people? MK has proven otherwise.. consistently.

Focusing on what point? I don't understand what you're saying here. And I don't have tunnel vision.

About the MK not getting an E-ticket in X years. People keep focusing in on that one point and ignoring the much more complex positioning of the resort.

Disney obviously wants to market their resort as a unit. The multi-day ticket pricing structure is just one example of this. It makes plans to experience the resort as a single unit more enticing, and many tourists bite on that strategy. It doesn't mean WDW has to be viewed as a single unit by everyone

Certainly - people are free to be lunatics if they chose to be But you're going to have an uphill battle when you try to go against the grain with no regard for how things are intended to be.. like complaining DAK isn't worth $100/day.

Considering all of the parks have a different annual attendance, this idea that WDW actually works as a single unit is highly flawed. Equally, I'm sure Universal wishes that their parks worked as a single unit -- they wouldn't have to try so hard to catch USF up to speed with IOA.

'fans' focus too much on attendance estimates. The business looks at things holistically. The job of an additional gate was not to be the most visited park in the country.. it was to extend the stay of visitors and get a higher portion of the guests's available vacation spending dollars. Attendance isn't the end game.. attendance is simply a measure of 'opportunities'. WDW is an integrated system.. from ticketing, transportation, dining, accommodations, retail, and more. One shouldn't try to apply 'isolated amusement park' measures to something built to operate entirely different.

 

[HTF]

Can we have at least one thread just one that doesn't turn into a defend Disney to the death thread. I love Disney as well but Universal is finally getting financial backing and getting the DCA treatment which should be a fun and exciting topic to talk about.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Unless Universal some day takes over WDW, I cannot imagine a situation where I'd ever set foot in a Universal park.

How open minded of you. Well done your corporate loyalty will be rewarded with an extended Princess meet n greet

 

[PhilharMagician]

Unless Universal some day takes over WDW, I cannot imagine a situation where I'd ever set foot in a Universal park.

What is the reason for such a general statement? Did they do something wrong? Universal is healthy competition and without it and Seaworld in Orlando WDW probably would not have grown like it did. Besides USF is a fun place to visit and has some of the best attractions on the planet.

Unfortunately, only one theme park is playing the game right now and it's not the one I want. Right now TWDC management is too busy fighting with itself to realize that Universal is not waiting around for them to join in the game.

I bet we get more DVC though.

You are right. In the past few years since HP was announced USF & IoA added a new HP themed area and one ride and some makovers on others, has another new HP themed area under construction with 2 new rides and Transformers, Simpson's makeover, Dispicable Me makeover, HRRR along with one resort.

WDW has only opened 2 new resorts and has one more expansion on the way, FLE, CL, Avatarland, Next Gen, SotMK, HM interactive Queue, Poo interactive Queue, TT makeover, SW makeover, TSMM makeover, proposed Pixar additions to DHS. Add in all of the facade refurbs throughout MK and Epcot.

I do not understand where the comment comes from that tWDC is doing nothing. There were some dry years after 911 when there was no expansion going on and the park really fell in disrepair, but that has changed. I am not saying that there is still a lot work to be done, but there has certainly been a serious change. I am not sure if people expect a $200 million ride every year in each park?

If you hate DVC then you have probably not done your homework. I do not know anyone who does not want to save money.

 

[GLaDOS]

In the past few years since HP was announced USF & IoA added a new HP themed area and one ride and some makovers on others, has another new HP themed area under construction with 2 new rides and Transformers, Simpson's makeover, Dispicable Me makeover, HRRR along with one resort.

And a parade, which Disney hasn't had a new one in over 4 years. And a night show, of which Disney hasn't had a new one in the better part of a decade. And added to its downtown district by adding 2 18 hole mini-golf courses and a stretch of decks to relax on. And redid it's downtown's show.

WDW has only opened 2 new resorts and has one more expansion on the way, FLE, CL, Avatarland, Next Gen, SotMK, HM interactive Queue, Poo interactive Queue, TT makeover, SW makeover, TSMM makeover, proposed Pixar additions to DHS. Add in all of the facade refurbs throughout MK and Epcot

Okay...now I gotta go into this.

First...interactive queues? Really? Are we really trying to act like they are something special and we should be doing flips over? Do they really make your time in these lines more enjoyable? Because for me, it's the same old thing, with the added annoyance of obnoxious sounds.

Avatarland and whatever is happening at Pixar Place are as of now as much figments of our imagination as where the rest of Uni's 1.5 billion is going. Yes, there's a good chance it will happen. But until they do, let's not act like Disney has given us a great gift with possible, kinda, maybe in the future expansions.

SotMK. I can't even touch this one with a straight face.

TT makeover is only happening because Chevy/GM paid for it.

Star Tours I'll give you. A very nice update to an attraction.

Facade refurbs are maintenance. I will never, ever give Disney a pat on the back for things they're supposed to be doing.

And NextGen? you mean the 1.5 billion datamining experiment? Yup. Totally glad Disney went through with that!

And did I miss a TSMM makeover? Surely you're not talking about the one game switched in and out?

 

[BigThunderMatt]

In the past few years since HP was announced...WDW has only opened 2 new resorts

HP was announced in 2007 and since then Art of Animation is the only new resort IIRC. What was the second one? I don't count DVC expansions to current resorts as a brand new resort, regardless of how separate and independent from the main resort they may be (ex. BLT). Especially when you consider rack rate for non-DVC members is well outside the range of the average visitor.

AoA was a smart decision that caters to a niche market that they haven't really cornered yet: families with more than 2 children, or groups of adults traveling together and not wanting to get multiple rooms.

 

[ParentsOf4]

If you hate DVC then you have probably not done your homework. I do not know anyone who does not want to save money.

I'm a DVC member. In general, DVC saves some money to a very limited group who prefers to stay at Deluxe Resorts and is willing to commit to vacationing at WDW for many years. Realistically, the best way to save money is to rent someone else's DVC points. I suggest you read some of my many posts on the subject for a cost analysis of DVC. For most, it takes 10 years or longer of renting DVC points vs. purchasing DVC to reach the break-even point. That's a long time to wait to "save money".

I'm also a Universal AP holder. Right now, my Universal AP is the better deal.

 

[PhilharMagician]

And a parade, which Disney hasn't had a new one in over 4 years. And a night show, of which Disney hasn't had a new one in the better part of a decade. And added to its downtown district by adding 2 18 hole mini-golf courses and a stretch of decks to relax on. And redid it's downtown's show.

In the past 4 years Disney has switched out @ MK Spectro for a refurbed MSEP, Celebrate a Dream Come True Parade, Move It! Shake It! Celebrate It! Street Party then at DHS there has been Disney Stars and Motor Cars Parade, Block Party Bash andPixar Pals Countdown To Fun!

WDW has not changed there nightime shows in the pas 4 years, but 3 of the 4 parks have always had them.

WDW has really struggled with the nighttime adult entertainment portion of DTD, but have added 2 new full service restuarants and currently are adding Splitsville and expanded the Cinema to offer dine in movies.

Okay...now I gotta go into this.

First...interactive queues? Really? Are we really trying to act like they are something special and we should be doing flips over? Do they really make your time in these lines more enjoyable? Because for me, it's the same old thing, with the added annoyance of obnoxious sounds.

So are you saying that the investment into these interactive queues is not something that makes guests happy? Everytime I am in those queues I see them full with many kids that are very happy and content with something to do and focus on.

Will I do flips over them? No, but it is something that only Disney has been doing and it is a plus to every attration they have been added to.

Avatarland and whatever is happening at Pixar Place are as of now as much figments of our imagination as where the rest of Uni's 1.5 billion is going. Yes, there's a good chance it will happen. But until they do, let's not act like Disney has given us a great gift with possible, kinda, maybe in the future expansions.

I agree 100%.

SotMK. I can't even touch this one with a straight face.

Again, just because it does not interest you does not mean it is not a good addition to MK. Many children loves these interactive games like SotMK & Agent P. These are great attractions to keep kids focused and happy and actually using their brains and they enjoy thinking.

TT makeover is only happening because Chevy/GM paid for it.

Star Tours I'll give you. A very nice update to an attraction.

Facade refurbs are maintenance. I will never, ever give Disney a pat on the back for things they're supposed to be doing.

Well, GM is not paying for a full refurb on the attraction, maybe the Chevy logo and facade changes, but certainly not all of it. This was done mainly because of the push by GM to make Chevrolet and the bowtie symbol the face of the GM Corporation which they are moving towards worldwide. GM is still not in a great financial situation.

And NextGen? you mean the 1.5 billion datamining experiment? Yup. Totally glad Disney went through with that!

Again, this is not something you apparently care about. I guess nobody cares about wait times on everything from busses to Soarin'? Everywhere you look in Disney someone has a smartphone, tabllet and some even have laptops and are looking for information on wait times and the last time I was there the parks had no Wifi. The next gen will help with crowd control throughout the resort.

I am not sure where the datamining comes in. This is not taking you CC number or checking account info, it is basically a system for crowd control which in my eyes it is needed on many days.

And did I miss a TSMM makeover? Surely you're not talking about the one game switched in and out?

I guess you did not understand. I listed many makovers, like TSMM, Simpson's, Dispicable Me. The reason I used that terminology was that they were technically not new attractions. These attractions were coverted from another attraction in an existing space. I said that so I would not have people saying that they we not really additions.

I am in no way saying I am satisfied with the additions or expansion of WDW, but it is also frustrating reading posts that are just riddled with negativity here.

 

[PhilharMagician]

HP was announced in 2007 and since then Art of Animation is the only new resort IIRC. What was the second one? I don't count DVC expansions to current resorts as a brand new resort, regardless of how separate and independent from the main resort they may be (ex. BLT). Especially when you consider rack rate for non-DVC members is well outside the range of the average visitor.

AoA was a smart decision that caters to a niche market that they haven't really cornered yet: families with more than 2 children, or groups of adults traveling together and not wanting to get multiple rooms.

Yes, BLT.

Rack rate for a deluxe reort is out of the range for many guests also.

BLT was a large expansion to the Contemporary and it currently stands alone with it's own Check-in in the BLT lobby now.

None the less it was in comparison to Uni which has one resort in the plans. I would count the well over $100 million investment tWDC is making in BLT, AoA and GFDVC still an investment into the overall WDW resort.

 

[PhilharMagician]

I'm a DVC member. In general, DVC saves some money to a very limited group who prefers to stay at Deluxe Resorts and is willing to commit to vacationing at WDW for many years. Realistically, the best way to save money is to rent someone else's DVC points. I suggest you read some of my many posts on the subject for a cost analysis of DVC. For most, it takes 10 years or longer of renting DVC points vs. purchasing DVC to reach the break-even point. That's a long time to wait to "save money".

I'm also a Universal AP holder. Right now, my Universal AP is the better deal.

Sorry, I have not read your posts with the cost comparisons and did not realize you were a DVC member. It is shocking that someone that owns DVC is not happy when more DVC options become available. I am not sure that I would agree with the 10 years or longer using a apples to apples comparison between staying in a deluxe resort to paying for DVC. I do gree that if you compare rates to stay in a value to purchasing DVC then I would say 10+ would be more in line.

I'm shocked that a $399 Premium AP does not hold any value to you. I guess you must be disappointed with Disney or just do not like to go to WDW anymore.

I am not an AP holder for Universal, but I find it hard now to find the value in a 3 day hopper. The addition of HP is great, but it is a lot of money compared to what is was 4 years ago when I was paying $80 for the same ticket. I guess that is what happens when HP comes to town. The discounts vanish.

 

[TalkingHead]

Is there a source for that number? or is that simply a number thrown out that keeps getting recycled?

I agree UNI gets more bang for the buck (heck, everyone does compared to Disney). I'm just asking...
How much is $100mil/year vs what they normally invest?
How much is $100mil/year vs what Disney invests?

Any investment looks big when you add up everything over a very long period of time.

I think this is where the $40 million number came from:

http://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/...er-stunning-visuals-in-transformers-ride.294/
http://images.creativecow.net/1027/transformers.jpg

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Yes, BLT.

Rack rate for a deluxe reort is out of the range for many guests also.

BLT was a large expansion to the Contemporary and it currently stands alone with it's own Check-in in the BLT lobby now.

None the less it was in comparison to Uni which has one resort in the plans. I would count the well over $100 million investment tWDC is making in BLT, AoA and GFDVC still an investment into the overall WDW resort.

It may have been a large expansion, but it is certainly not an entirely new resort. It was an addition to an existing resort and, for the large part, was geared exclusively towards current and new-DVC members. It did not create additional rooms for the general public on the whole, nor has any DVC expansion to any current hotel ever been created to do so. Sure, Kidani Village and Bay Lake Tower are very LARGE additions, but the vast majority of people that stay there are DVC members.

Art of Animation is, in the last five years, by definition, the only 100% completely new resort, open to anyone wishing to stay on property at a price range where they are guaranteed to get a high occupancy rate (although I am of the understanding that AoA has been struggling to gain footing since opening).

Universal is creating a brand new resort that is ALSO geared towards a different market, and for guests willing to stay on-site but not willing to pay the high price tag for their current offerings, it is a definite plus for the resort.