Uni's New Plan For Potter Could Make Significant Dent To WDW

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Hey I have no problem with Avatarland but it is just plain silly to become clinically depressed because you cannot go to or live on Pandora. I also would not use this article (that is clincally baseless and I would eat my sneaker if PAD were added to the DSM) to support a point. That is all I was referring to, I have no issues with Avatar or it being added to Disney. I have an issue with complete and total BS (not by you but whoever wrote the source you cited).

CNN is a fairly unreliable news source. I Googled it for you. Here are the search results. Take your pick of news sources.

I'm not saying Post Avatar Depression should become a clinical term. I point it out to refute the claim that Avatar did not create a world. What movie has created such an engaging world that there were news reports of depression experienced by people who wanted to visit it and couldn't? Avatar is the only movie that comes to mind.
 

disneyrcks

Well-Known Member
CNN is a fairly unreliable news source. I Googled it for you. Here are the search results. Take your pick of news sources.

I'm not saying Post Avatar Depression should become a clinical term. I point it out to refute the claim that Avatar did not create a world. What movie has created such an engaging world that there were news reports of depression experienced by people who wanted to visit it and couldn't? Avatar is the only movie that comes to mind.

News source or not, after working in the mental health field for several years, I would have to say that while Avatar or a vacation can be a contributing factor to episodic depression it is not the direct cause. For someone to become suicidal post watching Avatar, there has got to be more factors contributing to their depressive episode. I realize Avatar is a huge hit, not disputing that and I look forward to seeing what Disney does with it at the AK.

Yoda, I agree that the highs and lows of an exciting and fun experience could contribute to a depressive episode but again there most likely is more to it. Depression is a complicated disorder with many levels and symptoms that need to be assessed. All I am saying is that it is really difficult to pinpoint that a person who is happy with their life and psychologically sound will plummet into depression post experiencing something pleasant such as an immersive vacation or movie experience, and have just that experience be determined as the sole medical cause of their depression.

Again, I have no issue with Avatar or Avatarland, I just find it dangerous to lead people to believe that they can be suicidal after watching a movie and find the treatment they need on discussion forum without mentioning that it would be wise to see a certified professional. The article is what I took issue with and I still do. Depression should not be left untreated and what a person thinks may be the defining issue (i.e. Avatar) may only be a small piece of the puzzle to treating this illness. I also think anyone claiming to be depressed because they saw a movie and now think our planet is so awful that they cannot function should maybe step away from the keyboard and try to find a meaningful way to make the planet better and speak to someone who is a professional.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
News source or not, after working in the mental health field for several years, I would have to say that while Avatar or a vacation can be a contributing factor to episodic depression it is not the direct cause. For someone to become suicidal post watching Avatar, there has got to be more factors contributing to their depressive episode. I realize Avatar is a huge hit, not disputing that and I look forward to seeing what Disney does with it at the AK.

Yoda, I agree that the highs and lows of an exciting and fun experience could contribute to a depressive episode but again there most likely is more to it. Depression is a complicated disorder with many levels and symptoms that need to be assessed. All I am saying is that it is really difficult to pinpoint that a person who is happy with their life and psychologically sound will plummet into depression post experiencing something pleasant such as an immersive vacation or movie experience, and have just that experience be determined as the sole medical cause of their depression.

Again, I have no issue with Avatar or Avatarland, I just find it dangerous to lead people to believe that they can be suicidal after watching a movie and find the treatment they need on discussion forum without mentioning that it would be wise to see a certified professional. The article is what I took issue with and I still do. Depression should not be left untreated and what a person thinks may be the defining issue (i.e. Avatar) may only be a small piece of the puzzle to treating this illness. I also think anyone claiming to be depressed because they saw a movie and now think our planet is so awful that they cannot function should maybe step away from the keyboard and try to find a meaningful way to make the planet better and speak to someone who is a professional.

It's not that I disagree with you. You're right in the points you make. But I think you're seeing things through the specific lense of someone who works in the mental health field.

We're just talking about theme parks here.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
You and I are NOT friends anymore. :p

I wouldn't worry about it too much - I don't have a strong attachment to either Potter or Star Wars. I have purchased the last two Potter movies though and I don't own any of the Star Wars movies.

As for attractions, I enjoy Forbidden Journey more than Star Tours, but I would say they are both excellent attractions.
 

disneyrcks

Well-Known Member
It's not that I disagree with you. You're right in the points you make. But I think you're seeing things through the specific lense of someone who works in the mental health field.

We're just talking about theme parks here.

Agreed, I didn't mean to go all advocate :lol: Sometimes it just gets crazy the way mental health and illnesses are portrayed by the media.

See ya at Avatarland :wave:
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
The question about the sequels isn't so much "can Cameron do it again", because he can't. That was a perfect storm. It's kind of like Jackson's Thriller - it was the right place, at the right time, in the right industry - it's doubtful any single album will ever sell that much again (partially because how music consumption has changed, but that's a relatively recent change).

Avatar made a zillion dollars because : it was Cameron, it was the first "real" 3-D film, it was at a time when 3-D was hitting the height of it's gimmick popularity, it's a movie aimed at the biggest spenders of movie money (male teenagers, specifically those that go to films repeatedly, like he got with female teens and Titanic), and a summer light on major releases compared to the previous.

The chances of that happening again are pretty slim. People are already sick of 3-D (not that it ever was as popular as some put forth - it simply made a lot of money quickly because of novelty and inflated ticket prices - the "3D tax"). The teenage boys who made the first one successful will be college aged/post college again, and we don't know if the kids who are 10 or 11 now will be all that primed about it.

As others have pointed it, culturally the film is already all but disappeared. I think part of the problem is the generic name he gave the film - not only is avatar a general-use word, it's also the name of a kids show/franchise that already existed. That was a long-term mistake, I think, as the kids familiar with that Avatar today are the ones that would be his audience in five years for the next ones.

Avatar didn't really create a world. They made you feel like you were in one due to the 3-D, but that world had no depth to it. (Ironic as that sounds, it's the perfect fit for Avatar on a lot of levels.)





I get what you are saying, but we just dont know yet. Will the sequels be as financially successful at the box office, doubtful, but they could still be wildly successful. To say they will be otherwise at this point is nothing more then a guess.

The best thing tge sequels could do is create a compellibg story arc, introduce new characters, and take the story in an unexpected direction.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
I get what you are saying, but we just dont know yet. Will the sequels be as financially successful at the box office, doubtful, but they could still be wildly successful. To say they will be otherwise at this point is nothing more then a guess.

The best thing tge sequels could do is create a compellibg story arc, introduce new characters, and take the story in an unexpected direction.
People said tyhat Syar Wars was a one-of. Then three years later they released the magnificent The Empire Strikes Back. :shrug:

Anything is possible. Lord only knows what Cameron might have up his sleeve. I wouldn't put it beyond him to come up with something real good. My prediction is that for Avatar 2 he'll create an undersea world - his obsession.

This in turn, might mean AK might get an 'undersea' attraction of some kind, possibly based on TDS' 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Who knows, the theme park and the movie could be developed simultaneously, both feeding each other creative impulses.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
:hurl: I have another word for people with Post Avatar Depression but it would be inappropriate to use here :lol:

I have numerous.

And I bet many health care professionals would agree with me.

Of course, there's a whole wealth of material relating to mental health and the Disney fan community just waiting to be mined. But I'm not striking the first axe. :hammer:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
:lol:-Like I said no prob with Avatarland or Disney. My issue is with a bunch of idiots who diagnose themselves as clinically depressed with the sole trigger being that they cannot live at a fictional place. Though perhaps on a WDW forum this is considered normal and acceptable ( I just reread that and it did not sound at all as I meant it to sound), What I meant by it is that we can all identify a bit because we are fans of going to a fictionalized place that makes us all very happy. I get a little (ok, a lot) sad whenever I leave Disney but for goodness sake, it does not cause a chemical imbalance in my brain that needs to be treated with medication.

Must have PIXIE DUST ... Must have PIXIE DUST ... Must have PIXIE DUST ... Must have PIXIE DUST ... Must have PIXIE DUST ... Must have PIXIE DUST ... Must have PIXIE DUST .... you were saying something?;):zipit::drevil:
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Did you read the headlines about people suffering clinical depression because they couldn't visit Pandora in real life?

You make these statements based on your own opinion as though they are factual. So many people disagree with your opinion that it actually made headlines! :eek:

Here's a 101 page forum thread to help you cope with your PAD (Post Avatar Depression). Yep, it was common enough to be named.

ROFL.

I'm sorry, but...ROFL.

Did you read the article? It's based on the "clinical data" of 1,000 message board posts. And the second link is to an Avatar fan site.

I can show you 1,000 message board posts about people depressed that McDonalds only has the McRib back for a limited time.

The fact is, films do NOT bring on clinical depression. If someone is predisposed to such a thing, seeing a film may be a trigger - i.e. my life sucks, I wish I lived there, oh why can't I live there. But...seriously? These people no doubt have severe mental issues, but it's not because of Avatar. If anything that is situational depression, which is really more of a big bummer.

In any case, those with "Avatar" depression aren't likely to make a huge dent in attendance numbers. Which was, you know, the point. And if "PAD" is so bad, then surely Disney does not want to exacerbate the situation by giving them the "reality", when in truth they cannot stay there forever, either. Maybe Disney should install dorm rooms in one of the structures for these folk? ;)

I'm not saying Post Avatar Depression should become a clinical term. I point it out to refute the claim that Avatar did not create a world. What movie has created such an engaging world that there were news reports of depression experienced by people who wanted to visit it and couldn't? Avatar is the only movie that comes to mind.

The only thing is says to me is that news outlets were so desperate to put up another story about Avatar that they went and mined fanboi message boards to come up with a story, making the "victims" the butt of the joke. They wanted to cash in as much as possible before everyone forgot about the film, like the public largely has now.

The astronomers, planetary geologists, biologists, and aerospace engineers that assisted Cameron in creating as accurate and authentic of a fictional world as possible would like to have a word with you.

Cause we all know what classic storytellers astronomers, geologists, and biologists have been throughout the ages, don't we?

It's funny, because you actually did just prove my point. Yes, technically I'm sure it's accurate. Great. So the science geeks who actually care about that stuff will be satisfied. Cool.

But...it can be as accurate as can be, but that doesn't make it compelling. Let me provide you with an example.

"At 28.4195 degrees north, and 81.5812 degrees west, Cinderella Castle is 189 feet tall, including the 6-foot moat. It is constructed of 600 tons of steel and concrete, with the exterior layer largely consisting of fiber-reenforced plaster. The moat holds 3.37 million gallons of water, and the entire structure contains 27 towers."

vs.

"As you approach the town square of the eternally classic Main Street, the majestic beauty of Cinderella Castle beckons you to venture further into the Magic Kingdom. The tips of it's golden spires shimmer in the sunlight, hinting at the magical experiences that await you beyond it's drawbridge."


Now, probably not the best example on a Disney board (as the facts and figures fascinate many of us), but you can be as scientifically accurate as possible, but that doesn't make a great nor compelling world.

Yes, there are very pretty vistas in Avatar. But it doesn't create a compelling world. I hate to bring up Star Wars again, because my feelings for Avatar have nothing to do with Star Wars, but as many mistakes as Lucas made, he succeeded in creating a vast universe where you feel like there is a story under every nook and cranny. People have been able to write entire books about the people in just the sole Cantina scene in Star Wars - where they came from, why they were there, what they did after. That's why so many were disappointed in the prequels; he kept spending time going over the same stuff, and instead of exploring all that could be explored we just kept going to back to whiny baby Darth. Potter is the same. It created a living breathing world that just feels ripe for exploration.

Avatar feels almost clinical. Self-contained. Which, hey, might actually lead to a good theme park attraction. I don't doubt that he had tons of scientific advice, it shows. But all the accuracy in the world doesn't create anything compelling on it's own. I'll take the explosions and blaster fire sounds in Space and all the other technical no-no's and non-realities of Star Wars over a clinically sterile environment that feels almost claustrophobic (again, ironic since it does show pretty vistas and scenery).
 

dcibrando

Well-Known Member
Here is what Disney needs to do to respond:

PARKS

Magic Kingdom
- New Fantasyland (in progress)
- New daytime parade
- New nighttime parade (better than SpectroMagic with newer technology, maybe projection, etc.)
- Update Tomorrowland Speedway with Cars (pixar) or futuristic theming on the cars themselves and to the track/area…make cars electric or battery powered (that recharge as they go) to eliminate noise/odor

Epcot
- Ellen’s Energy needs redone with something
- Redo Imagination Pavilion (ride, and 3d show)
- Build a new country or 2 with rides
- Remove Leave a Legacy at entrance

Hollywood Studios
- Turn Sounds Dangerous and American Idol Experience into an indoor ride (AIE I knew wouldn’t be as big or sustaining as they thought)
- Add onto Pixar area (Monster’s coaster)
- Get rid of Backlot tour and replace with Carsland (similar to that in Disneyland)
- Honey I Shunk the kids playground to A Bug’s Life theme (can’t believe this hasn’t already been done)
- Redo the Great Movie ride with all classic Disney and more recent pixar animated films with scenes and animatronics, etc. This IMO would be a hit
- Replace Beauty and the Beast show with Tangled (sounds like may be in the works already)
- I like Indiana Jones…but it’s going to get old if it hasn’t already. Maybe turn this into a ride or maybe better yet even a pirate themed stunt show?
- Enhance Fantasmic (maybe less water projections and more on stage/in water stuff?)

Animal Kingdom
- While I think Disney could really do cool things with Avatarland…I think this might not be the best path….Disney should add onto Animal Kingdom with a Sea/Ocean theme (like DisneySea) instead
- Within the DisneySea addition to the park, add World of Color (or something very similar) which would be the night show AK needs without firework mess/danger/noise for animals
- Not fond of the Dinoland/Amusement park feel…maybe save a few things from it (Dinosaur ride obviously, the lil Dumbo like ride, and maybe even primeval whirl (if it could be re-themed)
- Bring back some sort of boat ride through the water…could even be expanded into the new DisneySea park section
- Updates to the daytime parade

All Parks
- Require everyone to carry room key/ticket with RFID tag to enhance rides, queues, and maybe only allow those to use bus service as well

Downtown Disney
- I’m at a loss here… just keep adding more stores, Splitsville should help as well
- Do NOT add World of Color here – crowds are already bad at night in some places
- build a large indoor mini golf place
- they could make DTD "like" (work with me here) a 5th park if they do it right



BUS SERVICE

- Provide bus routes from the theme parks directly to Downtown Disney
 

menamechris

Well-Known Member
Here is what Disney needs to do to respond:

PARKS

Magic Kingdom
- New Fantasyland (in progress)
- New daytime parade
- New nighttime parade (better than SpectroMagic with newer technology, maybe projection, etc.)
- Update Tomorrowland Speedway with Cars (pixar) or futuristic theming on the cars themselves and to the track/area…make cars electric or battery powered (that recharge as they go) to eliminate noise/odor

Epcot
- Ellen’s Energy needs redone with something
- Redo Imagination Pavilion (ride, and 3d show)
- Build a new country or 2 with rides
- Remove Leave a Legacy at entrance

Hollywood Studios
- Turn Sounds Dangerous and American Idol Experience into an indoor ride (AIE I knew wouldn’t be as big or sustaining as they thought)
- Add onto Pixar area (Monster’s coaster)
- Get rid of Backlot tour and replace with Carsland (similar to that in Disneyland)
- Honey I Shunk the kids playground to A Bug’s Life theme (can’t believe this hasn’t already been done)
- Redo the Great Movie ride with all classic Disney and more recent pixar animated films with scenes and animatronics, etc. This IMO would be a hit
- Replace Beauty and the Beast show with Tangled (sounds like may be in the works already)
- I like Indiana Jones…but it’s going to get old if it hasn’t already. Maybe turn this into a ride or maybe better yet even a pirate themed stunt show?
- Enhance Fantasmic (maybe less water projections and more on stage/in water stuff?)

Animal Kingdom
- While I think Disney could really do cool things with Avatarland…I think this might not be the best path….Disney should add onto Animal Kingdom with a Sea/Ocean theme (like DisneySea) instead
- Within the DisneySea addition to the park, add World of Color (or something very similar) which would be the night show AK needs without firework mess/danger/noise for animals
- Not fond of the Dinoland/Amusement park feel…maybe save a few things from it (Dinosaur ride obviously, the lil Dumbo like ride, and maybe even primeval whirl (if it could be re-themed)
- Bring back some sort of boat ride through the water…could even be expanded into the new DisneySea park section
- Updates to the daytime parade

All Parks
- Require everyone to carry room key/ticket with RFID tag to enhance rides, queues, and maybe only allow those to use bus service as well

Downtown Disney
- I’m at a loss here… just keep adding more stores, Splitsville should help as well
- Do NOT add World of Color here – crowds are already bad at night in some places
- build a large indoor mini golf place
- they could make DTD "like" (work with me here) a 5th park if they do it right



BUS SERVICE

- Provide bus routes from the theme parks directly to Downtown Disney

I agree with about half of your suggestions. Some are a bit far out there - and for many there are very clear reasons why they don't do them (i.e. only buses from DtD to theme parks) - but the fact that many people may agree that all this needs to be done to compete with Harry Potter - that speaks volumes. I would be satisfied with one new attraction or entertainment addition in each park. We do have to be realistic that they cannot exhaust all expansion options in a 5-10 year period to respond to Universal. And quite frankly, once this is all completed, Universal will be done for quite some time. They will then ride the HP wave for as long as they can without doing anything significant in the parks. Add that to the fact that they are landlocked - there is little more they can do after this - that is until they start ripping out other attractions to replace them...
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
I have a crazy idea for how to compete with Universal. Scrap "Avatarland" and come up with something original that is not based on a movie franchise. That is what made WDW. Show us something that we do not expect. Most of their best attractions were not based on movies.

Let Uni stick to the movie based attractions. They seem to do a great job at it. Do what you used to do best.
 

Agent_P

Member
I have a crazy idea for how to compete with Universal. Scrap "Avatarland" and come up with something original that is not based on a movie franchise. That is what made WDW. Show us something that we do not expect. Most of their best attractions were not based on movies.

Let Uni stick to the movie based attractions. They seem to do a great job at it. Do what you used to do best.

I think movie based attractions are great for Hollywood Studios because it fits in with the theme.

But they are looking for something to fit into the Animal Kingdom. It should fit in with their theme, not more Star Wars like a lot of people suggest.
 

ChrisM

Well-Known Member
Cause we all know what classic storytellers astronomers, geologists, and biologists have been throughout the ages, don't we?

It's funny, because you actually did just prove my point. Yes, technically I'm sure it's accurate. Great. So the science geeks who actually care about that stuff will be satisfied. Cool.

I didn't prove your point, you either just changed your argument or are sloppy in your use of language.

You didn't previously say anything about storytelling or it being compelling and that wasn't what I was respomding to: you said it lacked "depth". The world of Avatar has plenty of depth.

But no argument about the authenticity of Pandora and the fictional future depicted in Avatar being crucial to maintaining the consistency of a theme park devoted to the natural world is obviously going to change your mind, so I'm not going to waste my time.
 

BigThunderMatt

Well-Known Member
- Provide bus routes from the theme parks directly to Downtown Disney

They used to do this and then stopped because people realized they could park at Downtown Disney for free and take a bus to the parks. It's the same reason you can't get a bus to the water parks from the theme parks.

Basically, people didn't want to pay for parking, so Disney made it a pain to get from the areas with free parking to the areas with paid parking via bus.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
They used to do this and then stopped because people realized they could park at Downtown Disney for free and take a bus to the parks. It's the same reason you can't get a bus to the water parks from the theme parks.

Basically, people didn't want to pay for parking, so Disney made it a pain to get from the areas with free parking to the areas with paid parking via bus.

...which is why the correct thing to do is to drive to the Polynesian and tell the guy at the guard house, "Oh, uh, I'm here to eat at, er, Boma? Yeah, that's the ticket! Eat at the Boma!"
 

surfsupdon

Well-Known Member
Come up with a ride or two of an original story.

The BEST rides at Disney are originals--Space Mtn, Big Thunder, Everest, and Soarin come to mind. And Mansion and Pirates.

CREATE a story!!!! Don't base it off of a movie I didn't even see, lol.
 

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