Uni's New Plan For Potter Could Make Significant Dent To WDW

[TarzanRocked99-]

In a nutshell, the answer is YES. ... But there are many reasons why I feel this way (although the Spirit much rather enjoys all his DL comps more!):xmas:

heading out next week, how was DCA with all the construction going on?

 

[IlikeDW]

I wrote something about this a few weeks ago. Capacity has never been an issue in Epcot, specifically in Future World. There are multiple "dead" spots in Future World that could easily house a hotel/DVC without disrupting the current or future capacity of the park. You could remove Wonders of Life and Universe of Energy, replace it with a hotel and please far more people than you'll upset.

Not a bad idea since about half the people that go to UoE now do so only to sleep not much would change. :drevil:

 

[WDW1974]

heading out next week, how was DCA with all the construction going on?

First, I didn't visit DCA this trip -- was at DLR for five days in September and spent plenty of time there -- but practically nothing has changed since beyond the construction progressing.

You've never seen a park with so many walls ... it is an OCD O-Town photog's wet dream. Think MK today times 100.

Hopefully, though, you'll be there before the huge crowds arrive because those walls won't be pleasant to navigate in wall to wall people.

But, if you can get by that (and you should), then you should have a great time. If you haven't seen WoC, then be prepared to be impressed. If you haven't seen LM, then be prepared for an overrated C-Ticket. If you haven't been to DCA since the new boardwalk eateries have opened, then do yourself a favor and have a meal or two there.

If you have any specific questions, please let me know ... and have a MAGICal time. DLR is amazing, especially at the holidays (just don't expect much from the tired X-mas parade)!:xmas:

 

[asianway]

Please tell me you are joking and not advocating turning attractions into timeshares?

Or this is just a lame attempt to get on Disney's social media whoring list!:xmas:

This may be the best post of the year.

 

[Dizmentia]

" The consumers don't seem to want it."

Where have you heard this? The only place I have heard significant re-action to Avatarland, including a good bit of negative reaction, is on Disney message boards like this one. The people on these boards do not represent your typical Disney consumer.

Dan

Agreed! I know people that love Avatar, and they are not necessarily big Disney fanatics (my Dad and my Nephew, for example). I don't think Disney expects the Avatar World to take down Potter, or sell tons of merchandise. I think they just want more people to visit Animal Kingdom. If this is done right, they will.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The powers-that-be at WDW must have convinced themselves that the public perceives no distinction between new DVC construction (which is not relevant to the average WDW guest) and investment in the parks themselves (you know, the actual reason for vacationing in WDW in the first place!) in terms of keeping their property fresh.

To expand on this - DVC sales are treated the same on the balance sheet as ticket sales. All under parks and resorts.

Avatar doesn't have a fan base. It was an incredibly well-hyped film that boasted some never before seen adaptions of current technology that got sci-fi fanbois into a lather ... briefly and made a (blank) load of money.

It was forgotten as quickly as those socks Aunt Martha left you under the X-mas tree in 2009 that are now buried in the back of your closet.:xmas:

Potter is (like a Star Wars) a pop cultural phenomemon that shows no signs of slowing down even without new filmed product coming out. The books and films and characters are timeless (yes, Disney, no matter how you'll try and take a swipe at them in passive aggressive fashion with the 'new' F-land marketing campaign).

I just want to know for all you Avatar apologists (or even those taking the wait and see approach) where you think the fanbase is ... because it isn't out there in the blogosphere, it isn't creating and buying billions in merchandise (Disney makes more on Duffy stuff!), it isn't evergreen ... it is one film, a mediocre (at best) one at that.

Now ... it may turn into a great themed area ... even a piece of crap like Waterworld has led to the best stunt show at a theme park in the USA today.

But if Disney believes blue aliens in 2016 or 2017 is somehow its answer to Potter (which will be multiple times larger with multiple cutting edge attractions by then), its execs are smoking way too much from the pixie dust pipe.

I don't have a particular fondness towards any of the four big franchises currently up for debate right now: Star Wars, Harry Potter, Avatar and Cars. Like others have said though, I'm excited by the world that can be created by these lands. So far Harry Potter has done the best job with putting guests in this world, but more importantly - it is also far more marketable than Avatar.

Hype will build up around the first Avatar sequel but anyone that thinks it will approach the sales of the original are delusional. If for some reason it does approach those sales, than kudos to Disney and Cameron for outsmarting all of us.

What you say makes sense, and there's a lot of truth in there.

Here's where I come down on it, and it's basically a positive outlook on what you've already said.

-yes, I agree, the Potter fanbase is huge, and the Avatar fanbase is, well, almost non-existent. Even the people that liked or loved the film haven't really established themselves as a "fan community". That having been said, well, that's not a make or break--but it's a real point worth making.

-I think that Avatar will lend itself to a great environment and great attractions--which, in and of themselves, will be draws--pulling in even the people who don't really care about Avatar. For example, Harry Potter is fine by me, but I'm not really a "fan". But--what I've heard about the FJ ride makes me want to go to experience it. The same could be true for people who are lukewarm about Avatar.

-There are two more films coming out, and that will be a natural build of material to draw from, new "fans" and/or visibility to the general populace, so we needn't worry about people not knowing what Avatar is about--Jim Cameron's worldwide publicity machine will see to that.

So, yeah, Potter is a juggernaut that can't be denied, and on balance, Avatar has a bit of an uphill battle--but if the sequels are good and the attractions and theming are compelling, Disney can have a hit on its hands without there having to be a Potter-esque rabid fanbase.

About the only thing that could really compete with that would be Star Wars, and so, DOH, whatever they need to do with Lucas they should do that as well. And that point has been made here ad infinitum. We shall see.

Avatar could help drive attendance in the Animal Kingdom, but it's highly unlikely it will have the effect that Potter had for obvious reasons.

It's OK. I often enjoy my posts too. And sometimes I do disagree with myself too.



I don't like when parks have names changed, especially when they're watered down and dumb ... the park you refer to as DHS will always be TPFKaTD-MGMS to me. Just like I refuse to lower case EPCOT and make it more Walmarted just 'cause TWDC wants me to.




It is VERY different. When Westcot was being designed it was a multi-billion dollar, top of the line quality Disney park and the hotel rooms were integrated seemlessly into the product. They were just a bonus on something new and amazing. EPCOT, now, has become a stale old park with vast dead zones that hasn't really expanded since the late 1980s ... things that replaced other attractions or aren't really for use by daily guests just don't count to me.

EPCOT could use a billion dollar (or two) extreme makeover and expansion. It doesn't need timeshares or hotel rooms and neither does WDW as a whole. They are discounting (still, 2 1/2 years after Iger said they would scale back dramatically) just to get solid load levels now. Adding more inventory to the mix is like continuing to build new homes in Las Vegas (which I shockingly found out is still going on now) when they already have about a 10-15 year supply due to overbuilding and the foreclosure disaster. It makes no sense ...

The whole WDW business model is flawed for anyone who cares about theme parks and cutting edge immersive family themed entertainment because the focus isn't on that and hasn't really been since about the time DAK opened.

Please tell me you are joking and not advocating turning attractions into timeshares?

Or this is just a lame attempt to get on Disney's social media whoring list!:xmas:

Not quite. Here's the article I wrote, titled "Why Epcot?"

To elaborate on my point - I was referring to the dead areas like Ellen's Energy Adventure, Wonders of Life, Millennium Village, and the Imagination Pavilion. Don't get me wrong - I would love if all of these were replaced with marquee new attractions, but right now Disney only seems willing to truly expand as needed. Very little true expansion has been done in Epcot, it has been primarily replacements.

Having said all that, marquee attractions bring in guests and ultimately result in expansion. I'm not defending Disney's approach, just trying to explain it.

As for staying in the parks - I get the novelty of it but I don't make the kind of money that it would cost. I stay off property at WDW and as such I can visit multiple times of year for very little money. At Disneyland I typically stay at the Desert Inn and Suites which is within walking distance but still under $80 for rooms that are on par with Disney moderates.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

First, I didn't visit DCA this trip -- was at DLR for five days in September and spent plenty of time there -- but practically nothing has changed since beyond the construction progressing.

You've never seen a park with so many walls ... it is an OCD O-Town photog's wet dream. Think MK today times 100.

Hopefully, though, you'll be there before the huge crowds arrive because those walls won't be pleasant to navigate in wall to wall people.

But, if you can get by that (and you should), then you should have a great time. If you haven't seen WoC, then be prepared to be impressed. If you haven't seen LM, then be prepared for an overrated C-Ticket. If you haven't been to DCA since the new boardwalk eateries have opened, then do yourself a favor and have a meal or two there.

If you have any specific questions, please let me know ... and have a MAGICal time. DLR is amazing, especially at the holidays (just don't expect much from the tired X-mas parade)!:xmas:

Thanks for the heads up, crowd control is much more efficient out there and thats a good thing, and I can think of a couple other parades closer to home that are more tired than A Christmas Fantasy.

As for the Orlando photogs, hopefully they will be equally obsessed when the these pop up in the back corner of Uni next spring.

 

[disneyonmymind]

You had the Dream Suite at DL and the Castle Suite at MK. Of course, you had to be very lucky to actually 'win' a stay in them. Today, they are used but for whom and what (if anything) they pay is a closely guarded secret.

Sort of unrelated but I was just lucky enough to stay in the castle last month and after speaking with the cast members in charge, it seems the suite is used for contest prizes (how I scored the stay) and promotional opportunities (people who run travel sites). There is a guest book that dates back to January that seems to agree with both of these, though it shows the Suite occupied only a few times per month if all guests signed.

 

[huntzilla]

Sort of unrelated but I was just lucky enough to stay in the castle last month and after speaking with the cast members in charge, it seems the suite is used for contest prizes (how I scored the stay) and promotional opportunities (people who run travel sites). There is a guest book that dates back to January that seems to agree with both of these, though it shows the Suite occupied only a few times per month if all guests signed.

Travel sites? Ugh, I'm glad we defiled a Disney icon to please a few celebs and travel agents.

 

[Next Big Thing]

All I can tell you is that two major sized projects (certainly larger than a C-Ticket dark ride or a B-Ticket kiddie coaster) seemed on the way for EPCOT and TPFKaTD-MGMS and both were recently shot down by management, which believes that the smallish Fantasyland project, the who knows if and what will eventually happen Avatar project, the Wishes replacement pyro show and LOADS of new timeshares and hotel rooms is what WDW needs. ... At the same time, DL was able to get approval (apparently fasttracked by UNI's west-coast plans) for a major new attraction before the park turns 60.

Whoa, wait a minute, since when are they replacing wishes? (Not that I would complain...)

 

[jakeman]

And why exactly does that seem to matter to you? We BOTH know Disney pays for bloggers/podcasters/webmasters or 'selected' ones to get free trips. If you are denying this, then you're just choosing to be ignorant, combative or both.

Because if it is the negative issue that you say it is, I would think, you, being concerned with the direction of the company would want to inform us on who is receiving these benefits so we can see their reviews in a more accurate light.

I don't possess Disney's lists as to who gets invited to what and how much the company places as a monetary value on said individuals.

So for all your bluster, you are saying you actually don't know.

Let me make sure I'm understanding your statement correct:

You, despite dozens of post and endless rants about the evils of Disney using social media to marginalize the fan base, cannot actually name who is receiving the benefits.

Why is the issue important but not the people involved? We are supposed, in your view, reject Disney using Social Media, but you can't even be bother to find out who is actually delivering skewed reviews in exchange for benefits.

I'm sure you can look online and find out who attended (which means who Disney paid for). I only heard about the event from Mouseplanet, which had Adrienne Vincent Phoenix (I believe that is how she spells her name) there ... maybe you could contact her and ask her who else was invited since it seems to interest you so.

I would think that you would want to do that since sussing out the bloggers and webmasters that are presenting biased reviews of Disney products really seems to upset you.

Or I see you are headed to the Poly soon ... maybe you could set up a meeting with some of the Celebration Place Cabal since you seem to feel I am overly harsh on Disney's Social Media efforts. I'm sure Duncan and Thomas and Jen would all just love ya! :xmas:

I never said you were overly harsh.

I've only asked for you to provide the names of people who you seem to deride at every opportunity.

We disagree on how much of an issue it is, given that it is only natural for a corporation, or any individual really, to want to control their image.

I'm just curious as to who these bloggers and webmasters are. Outside of a handful of sites, I'm not big on the Disney web thing, but I am curious to see the scourge of the internet, you've preached about for so long. I'm even more curious now as to why you've done so little research on something that rankles you so.

 

[jmmc]

I didn't feel like perusing all 22 pages of this article, so excuse me if I repeat something.

But when I read this, all I can think of is... Universal is EVIL!

Also, Disney's not going out of business over this, so what do I care? I'm not a stockholder.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

I didn't feel like perusing all 22 pages of this article, so excuse me if I repeat something.

But when I read this, all I can think of is... Universal is EVIL!

Also, Disney's not going out of business over this, so what do I care? I'm not a stockholder.

How in the heck did you get Universal is Evil from all of this? They are the ones taking risks, spending money and focusing on quality?

 

[td1129]

Why don't you girls take your inferiority complexes over to usfmagic.com? Good lord.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Thanks for the heads up, crowd control is much more efficient out there and thats a good thing, and I can think of a couple other parades closer to home that are more tired than A Christmas Fantasy.

As for the Orlando photogs, hopefully they will be equally obsessed when the these pop up in the back corner of Uni next spring.

Unless I misread this (I read it as Disneyland crowd control is more efficient) I really disagree. Because of the smaller footprint, Disneyland gets incredibly congested with "temporary" queues seeping out into the walk ways. It's less of an issue at DCA, even with all of the construction walls. One of the biggest problem areas in Disneyland is the entrance to Tomorrowland with queues for Astro Orbiter, Star Tours and Buzz Lightyear all spilling out into the same area.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

I was speaking more towards how well they handle Fantasmic and Remember Dreams Come True. The smaller ques are a problem.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
Please tell me you are joking and not advocating turning attractions into timeshares?

Or this is just a lame attempt to get on Disney's social media whoring list!

This may be the best post of the year.

Really?

I wouldn't have even put it in my top 25. But thanks!:xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

I don't have a particular fondness towards any of the four big franchises currently up for debate right now: Star Wars, Harry Potter, Avatar and Cars. Like others have said though, I'm excited by the world that can be created by these lands. So far Harry Potter has done the best job with putting guests in this world, but more importantly - it is also far more marketable than Avatar.

I became a Potter fan even when I tried hard to not get pulled in. For instance, I have never seen a film in a theater and never read a complete book. But I do love the series, the characters, the world that J.K. created. ... I'd put it at the top of the list really. Star Tours offered two good and one great film eons ago ... and nearly destroyed that with two unwatchable films and one OK one decades later. Cars ... well, I loved the first (and was reminded just how much Pixar got right with that film a few weeks ago when driving through the desert in Nevada, Arizona and Utah) and haven't seen the second (the first Pixar film I haven't seen in a theater). ... All three of them are so many worlds better (not to mention more popular globally) than Avatar. If not for the tech displayed, I am not even sure many people who tolerated it would even have that much good will toward it.

Avatar isn't marketable right now in any large extent. Maybe that will change if/when they build something at DAK. Maybe it won't.

But it simply isn't close to being in the league of Potter, Star Wars or Cars ... and anyone beyond Iger and his minions can see this clearly.

Not quite. Here's the article I wrote, titled "Why Epcot?"

To elaborate on my point - I was referring to the dead areas like Ellen's Energy Adventure, Wonders of Life, Millennium Village, and the Imagination Pavilion. Don't get me wrong - I would love if all of these were replaced with marquee new attractions, but right now Disney only seems willing to truly expand as needed. Very little true expansion has been done in Epcot, it has been primarily replacements.

Having said all that, marquee attractions bring in guests and ultimately result in expansion. I'm not defending Disney's approach, just trying to explain it.

As for staying in the parks - I get the novelty of it but I don't make the kind of money that it would cost. I stay off property at WDW and as such I can visit multiple times of year for very little money. At Disneyland I typically stay at the Desert Inn and Suites which is within walking distance but still under $80 for rooms that are on par with Disney moderates.

Very nice essay. I largely agree with your point on long-time EPCOT fans and why they list the place as a favorite. I'm probably one of them. It was the park that made me a fan for life and I still see glimmers of that place when there, far more in WS than FW, though. And I'm not against change. Just change that is lousy. Mission Space? Test Track? Soarin? Seas with Nemo? Very mediocre replacements for what was there before.

You make good points on capacity at EPCOT and MK, but you also do so largely in the same cold calculating way that a TDO beancounter would. I'm so glad TDO doesn't run TDR because I can only imagine how much would be shuttered or made seasonal based on spreadsheets and projections.

EPCOT's FW is a shell of itself because not only were wonderful attractions like Imagination and WoM replaced by vastly lower quality product, but other areas were just left to die like WoL, second level of Imagination, etc.

I don't want an Imagineering tee with the Horizons logo on it. I don't want the attraction back, either. But I want Disney to approach the park's future with the same guiding principles and desire for quality that got us EC in the first place.

And they weren't thinking about timeshares to do so. :xmas:

 

[headhoncho34]

I became a Potter fan even when I tried hard to not get pulled in. For instance, I have never seen a film in a theater and never read a complete book. But I do love the series, the characters, the world that J.K. created. ... I'd put it at the top of the list really. Star Tours offered two good and one great film eons ago ... and nearly destroyed that with two unwatchable films and one OK one decades later. Cars ... well, I loved the first (and was reminded just how much Pixar got right with that film a few weeks ago when driving through the desert in Nevada, Arizona and Utah) and haven't seen the second (the first Pixar film I haven't seen in a theater). ... All three of them are so many worlds better (not to mention more popular globally) than Avatar. If not for the tech displayed, I am not even sure many people who tolerated it would even have that much good will toward it.

Avatar isn't marketable right now in any large extent. Maybe that will change if/when they build something at DAK. Maybe it won't.

But it simply isn't close to being in the league of Potter, Star Wars or Cars ... and anyone beyond Iger and his minions can see this clearly.




Very nice essay. I largely agree with your point on long-time EPCOT fans and why they list the place as a favorite. I'm probably one of them. It was the park that made me a fan for life and I still see glimmers of that place when there, far more in WS than FW, though. And I'm not against change. Just change that is lousy. Mission Space? Test Track? Soarin? Seas with Nemo? Very mediocre replacements for what was there before.

You make good points on capacity at EPCOT and MK, but you also do so largely in the same cold calculating way that a TDO beancounter would. I'm so glad TDO doesn't run TDR because I can only imagine how much would be shuttered or made seasonal based on spreadsheets and projections.

EPCOT's FW is a shell of itself because not only were wonderful attractions like Imagination and WoM replaced by vastly lower quality product, but other areas were just left to die like WoL, second level of Imagination, etc.

I don't want an Imagineering tee with the Horizons logo on it. I don't want the attraction back, either. But I want Disney to approach the park's future with the same guiding principles and desire for quality that got us EC in the first place.

And they weren't thinking about timeshares to do so. :xmas:

At this point, its almost impossible to believe what will wake up TDO and make them realize the state of their parks. If the upcoming plans for US and IOA aren't enough then I believed nothing will change them, until the numbers drop at a vast rate.

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the heads up, crowd control is much more efficient out there and thats a good thing, and I can think of a couple other parades closer to home that are more tired than A Christmas Fantasy.

That's true, but it won't be pleasant being in those wall mazes in the front of the park. Once away from the entrance area where Buena Vista Street is being constructed, things should ease up. DCA was, unlike DL, built with much wider (WDW-like) walkways.

As to the parades, I do agree. WDW's are unwatchable for me except for DAK's. ... But some accuse me of thinking any park not at WDW is perfect, so I am being truthful.

I haven't seen A Christmas Fantasy since either 2006 or 2007 (can't recall) and thought it was tired then. The only change since has been to swap out the teddy bear on the opening float for NATURALLY!!!! a Duffy. If TDL can bring out a new X-mas Parade annually, why can't stateside parks change one every decade?

And the parade wasn't one of Disney's best to start with.:xmas:

As for the Orlando photogs, hopefully they will be equally obsessed when the these pop up in the back corner of Uni next spring.

Well, considering UNI is actually more careful who it allows in as media and who it invites to events, many O-Town folks prefer to go where the whoring is best. That's Mickey's place. So, I doubt Potter Phase II will get nearly as much attention as new DVC units at the GF or the tacky Animation Motel will.