Two Spirited Quickees...Imagination closing

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Goofy, thank you for posting that. I've always wondered why people with ADHD Ada children would expose them to massive crowds at disney and then balk at the thought of standing in a line. That's life, I hate to sound harsh. But part of life is waiting. Patience. What better way to teach that, than with a grand reward (the ride, show, meet n greet, etc) at the end?

The thought of the crowds scares me more than standing in line...
Please don't take this the wrong way but are you suggesting children with disabilities should avoid crowds? In a world with 7 billion people, that means pretty much leaving them at home.

My parents grew up at a time when children with disabilities were sent away to "institutions" to be kept hidden from the public. The purpose of ADA was to bring us out of this stone age thinking.

Children with special needs can and do enjoy WDW just as much as "typically developing" children but they need help.

The issue is not with CAG per se but how it's being abused by those without disabilities.
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
Please don't take this the wrong way but are you suggesting children with disabilities should avoid crowds? In a world with 7 billion people, that means pretty much leaving them at home.

My parents grew up at a time when children with disabilities were sent away to "institutions" to be kept hidden from the public. The purpose of ADA was to bring us out of this stone age thinking.

Children with special needs can and do enjoy WDW just as much as "typically developing" children but they need help.

The issue is not with CAG per se but how it's being abused by those without disabilities.

No, I'm not. Sorry if it came across that way. :) What I'm trying to say is...... know your child. And their triggers. If big crowds are a trigger that may set them off (I have bad anxiety- and this IS a trigger for me- I tend to avoid big crowds because of it) then maybe try to adjust your day/time so the child doesn't have to be in the midst of that. Ease them in slowly, try to prepare them for it. I understand this isn't always easy.

Again, sorry if that came across the wrong way. I'm not trying to say "don't take your kids with disabilities to wdw" or anything like that. But sometimes people lack common sense when it comes to vacation time and think that suddenly the situation is different with themselves/ their child.

:)
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
That's like telling a manic depressive to stop being sad. It's not, like, there's an actual neurological disorder happening here. I mean, teaching patience to ADHD kids... Well, golly, you just invented a cure. If only people thought of this before instead of wasting all that time and money with doctors and medications and research. :p

We really need a much better understanding of a problem before we start giving advice on what parents should/should not do to fix it.

Like I posted a few seconds ago... common sense. Sometime's its not so common.

And don't make me post the Guns n Roses "patience" song... because you totally got it going through my head :)


For the record, I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement.
 

StarWarsGirl

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
No, I'm not. Sorry if it came across that way. :) What I'm trying to say is...... know your child. And their triggers. If big crowds are a trigger that may set them off (I have bad anxiety- and this IS a trigger for me- I tend to avoid big crowds because of it) then maybe try to adjust your day/time so the child doesn't have to be in the midst of that. Ease them in slowly, try to prepare them for it. I understand this isn't always easy.

Again, sorry if that came across the wrong way. I'm not trying to say "don't take your kids with disabilities to wdw" or anything like that. But sometimes people lack common sense when it comes to vacation time and think that suddenly the situation is different with themselves/ their child.

:)

A good solution for parents would also be to consult their school before they go. Most kids with ADHD and autism have an IEP, which gives the parents valuable information. They can consult the teacher, psychologist and other staff members before going to see what accomodations they might need and if they are able to handle it. For kids with ADHD or a condition that's not obvious (for example, talk to my brother for two minutes and you'll know he has an issue), if it's severe enough that they can't wait in line and that is determined beforehand, a not from the psychologist might boost their credibility if a CM were to say no (though I doubt they can ask about the issue).

Still, you are correct that some kids can't handle it, but for many, with the pass, Disney can be a very good thing and actually the stimulation helps with the condition. This has been my family's experience with my brother as well as the experience of several of his classmates. Which is why the pass absolutely needs to stay.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Somehow, this has devolved into a debate about GAC...

But, I'll toss in my two cents, with no offense meant to anyone, this is a general discussion, not an exploration of any individual situation, per se.

Is any kid normal? Mine isn't. She's got her own quirks, her own tolerances, her own moods, just like any person. And parents learn to gauge those moods quickly.

Is my kid perfect? Nope. Is she impatient? Many times, yep. Does she whine? Oh, she has that perfected. Can she lie? Yep.

However, I don't rush to "diagnose" her with any behavioral disorder...nor seek a medical diagnosis...why?

Because, she is a person. She is still developing, and quickly I may add. We all develop throughout our lives, but without a doubt the first 20 - 30 years will most likely set many pre-conceptions and establish many behaviors, hence why parents (like me) try to give a "better" life for their children...it's partially vicarious, and partially emotional / intellectual evolution.

As is often said, there is no "user manual" for a kid.

So, I digress...raising a child isn't a science, it's an art. Just as any interpersonal relationship is. And it shouldn't be left to scientists (which are what doctors are, for the record). It's about relationships, respect, and trust (in both directions). And, that is not built when a built in "you are different than me" excuse is created by the parent. But, I'll get more into that later.

Look at the sheer number of children diagnosed with "mild autism" or "ADHD" (in my day it was called hyperactivity, in my parents day it was called being a kid...) Kids are stupid, they say and do stupid things. They lie, they cheat, the steal...they are people pressing boundaries.

This rush to over diagnose, over medicate, and over indulge children because of some perceived "disability" annoys me.

Sorry, ADHD isn't a "disability". Nor is "mild autism". And, frankly, having worked with children who are severely autistic, I find it annoying how many people have jumped on that bandwagon. A severely autistic child has extremely special concerns, one of which is crowds...and if that means you never get to do Disney, so be it. Severe autism is extremely rare, "mild autism" is not.

That being said, does my kid have trouble changing gears? Yep. Does she dislike waiting in lines? Yep. Does she complain and whine at times? Yep. Does she have trouble paying attention over extended periods? Yep.

At an early age, nothing a swat on the bum won't solve...(or, by this age she's at now, we can use guilt or other means, because her mother and I were not conservative when teaching her how to act when she was younger, and she respects our parental authority).

I'll close my short rant with this...a child IS most definitely a person, and should be treated as such, but in no way is a child an adult. Diagnosing a child prematurely (who, for the record has NOT matured yet) with a "mental defect", such as ADHD, and then informing them of said defect throughout their childhood (Oh, it's ok you couldn't read Moby Dick, it's too long, you have ADHD), thereby allowing them an excuse for poor performance in the future, accomplishes absolutely nothing.

For those parents who actually have children who struggle with mental / physical disabilities, this rant is not directed at you in any way.
 

Cousin Huet

Well-Known Member
Somehow, this has devolved into a debate about GAC...

But, I'll toss in my two cents, with no offense meant to anyone, this is a general discussion, not an exploration of any individual situation, per se.

Is any kid normal? Mine isn't. She's got her own quirks, her own tolerances, her own moods, just like any person. And parents learn to gauge those moods quickly.

Is my kid perfect? Nope. Is she impatient? Many times, yep. Does she whine? Oh, she has that perfected. Can she lie? Yep.

However, I don't rush to "diagnose" her with any behavioral disorder...nor seek a medical diagnosis...why?

Because, she is a person. She is still developing, and quickly I may add. We all develop throughout our lives, but without a doubt the first 20 - 30 years will most likely set many pre-conceptions and establish many behaviors, hence why parents (like me) try to give a "better" life for their children...it's partially vicarious, and partially emotional / intellectual evolution.

As is often said, there is no "user manual" for a kid.

So, I digress...raising a child isn't a science, it's an art. Just as any interpersonal relationship is. And it shouldn't be left to scientists (which are what doctors are, for the record). It's about relationships, respect, and trust (in both directions). And, that is not built when a built in "you are different than me" excuse is created by the parent. But, I'll get more into that later.

Look at the sheer number of children diagnosed with "mild autism" or "ADHD" (in my day it was called hyperactivity, in my parents day it was called being a kid...) Kids are stupid, they say and do stupid things. They lie, they cheat, the steal...they are people pressing boundaries.

This rush to over diagnose, over medicate, and over indulge children because of some perceived "disability" annoys me.

Sorry, ADHD isn't a "disability". Nor is "mild autism". And, frankly, having worked with children who are severely autistic, I find it annoying how many people have jumped on that bandwagon. A severely autistic child has extremely special concerns, one of which is crowds...and if that means you never get to do Disney, so be it. Severe autism is extremely rare, "mild autism" is not.

That being said, does my kid have trouble changing gears? Yep. Does she dislike waiting in lines? Yep. Does she complain and whine at times? Yep. Does she have trouble paying attention over extended periods? Yep.

At an early age, nothing a swat on the bum won't solve...(or, by this age she's at now, we can use guilt or other means, because her mother and I were not conservative when teaching her how to act when she was younger, and she respects our parental authority).

I'll close my short rant with this...a child IS most definitely a person, and should be treated as such, but in no way is a child an adult. Diagnosing a child prematurely (who, for the record has NOT matured yet) with a "mental defect", such as ADHD, and then informing them of said defect throughout their childhood (Oh, it's ok you couldn't read Moby Dick, it's too long, you have ADHD), thereby allowing them an excuse for poor performance in the future, accomplishes absolutely nothing.

For those parents who actually have children who struggle with mental / physical disabilities, this rant is not directed at you in any way.

Standing Ovation......glad there are still people out there with sense!

Everyone thinks or wants to think they need special treatment and they instill that in their kids. Too many times this is perpetuated by poor or lazy doctors and teachers.....and then it becomes an excuse for all parties. I've seen this in action in close family and it's a shame ....it sells talented kids short at the hands of workable challenges.

Our society has become disappointing to say the least.
 

Gomer

Well-Known Member
Not to butt in here, but I would ask that the previous few posters be careful when expressing these sentiments. I have a child with autism. I have watched over the last few years as it has become very popular to say what you are saying. "Increases in autism are due to over-diagnosis". "Doctors are looking to diagnose every single personality quirk". It is the bandwagon of the moment. A natural backlash to the increase in awareness that has occurred over the last decade or two. And I agree, over-diagnosis does occur. I have seen it myself, and it is a problem. But, blanket statements about "mild-autism" and the like cause the masses of people who may not be as discerning in their opinions as you all, to start making generalized statements about everyone.

I have personally witnessed this shift in popular opinion through lower interest in helping out, poor fundraising for research, and generally snotty comments that my son will get in places like Disney World. Such as a seemingly intelligent guest making a comment just loud enough for me to hear about my son not having "real autism" because at that second he was having a particular typical looking day to an outside viewer. Hate to break it to you, but it doesn't work that way.

And I know that none of these comments were intended for people like my son with "real autism", but it doesn't matter. That is the end result whether you intend it or not. Even if you remove the over-diagnosis, Autism is increasing at epidemic proportions and the world needs to find a way to come to grips with that. I fear the initial phases of this backlash towards non-visible disabilities will lead to even worse and that the world will not be ready or willing to deal with the massive influx of disabled adults about to pour into our society and economy.

Anyway, I will end my rant there. I just ask for some self-awareness when posting things like "mild autism is rare" which is unfortunately not as true as it used to be. But finally to the person who had commented on people with severe autism possibly needing to stay away from lines due to the parents enjoying more than the child. Just remember, you are not seeing the whole picture. People with autism can sometimes appear upset or even catatonic while still enjoying themselves. My son will sometimes look like a zombie in the parks who is having no fun, and then bounce of the walls talking about everything he did during the day when we get back to our hotel room and away from people. Just understand, that there's always more to the picture than the snap shot you see.

I apologize for derailing this thread more than it already had been.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Thanks to my Disneyland and WDW wait time apps on my beloved iPhone, you can also see the impact once Fastpass is turned on. Compare the various wait times of cloned attractions that have no Fastpass at Disneyland, but have Fastpass at WDW. I've chosen to do this now around 1:00PM Pacific Time because with a three hour time difference between the two properties I think it's as close to equity as you'll get on a mid-summer day.

According to my official wait time apps, here is what current wait times are for cloned FP and non-FP attractions. I also included the Splash Mountain and Test Track/Racers wait at each property to use as a FP benchmark on a busy summer day.

Disneyland Resort, 7/16/13, 1:15PM Pacific, Weather: Blue Skies, Dry with Light Breeze, 78 Degrees, RealFeel Temp 76 Degreees
The Little Mermaid - 5 Minutes (non FP)
Toy Story Midway Mania - 40 Minutes (non FP)
Splash Mountain - 75 Minutes (FP)
Radiator Springs Racers - 120 Minutes (FP)

WDW Resort, 7/16/13, 4:15PM Eastern, Weather: Thunderstorm, Moderate Rain, 81 Degreees, RealFeel Temp 85 Degrees
The Little Mermaid - 60 Minutes (FP)
Toy Story Midway Mania - 120 Minutes (FP)
Splash Mountain - 75 Minutes (FP)
Test Track - Closed Due To Inclement Weather

Interesting, don't you think? Especially at Mermaid. :eek:
There are a few other factors here. Mainly the attendance at the parks that respective attractions are in. I would speculate that Mermaid in MK and TSMM in DHS would probably have their wait times cut in half without FP, but certainly wouldn't reach DCA levels.
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
All this lack of news outside of new bathrooms really gets these conversations off-track, eh?

I'm still wondering when @WDW1974 is going have something more to detail about Imagination and whether Disney is going to actually put true resources into it. Based on Igervision, I assume we can bet the proverbial farm that it will have a licensed tie-in as it seems to be illegal in today's synergy laced company to do anything but.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
All this lack of news outside of new bathrooms really gets these conversations off-track, eh?

I'm still wondering when @WDW1974 is going have something more to detail about Imagination and whether Disney is going to actually put true resources into it. Based on Igervision, I assume we can bet the proverbial farm that it will have a licensed tie-in as it seems to be illegal in today's synergy laced company to do anything but.
Working title: Disney Planes: A Journey into Airborne Imagination with Planes and Disney/Pixar's Cars Friends. Opens 2015.
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
All this lack of news outside of new bathrooms really gets these conversations off-track, eh?

I'm still wondering when @WDW1974 is going have something more to detail about Imagination and whether Disney is going to actually put true resources into it. Based on Igervision, I assume we can bet the proverbial farm that it will have a licensed tie-in as it seems to be illegal in today's synergy laced company to do anything but.

Based on it's relatively central location in the park (and opposite of it is a sponsored attraction and precious event space so they aren't going anywhere), if the buildings ever see the wrecking ball, that's a signal that they've decided making it into executive parking...
 

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
All this lack of news outside of new bathrooms really gets these conversations off-track, eh?

I'm still wondering when @WDW1974 is going have something more to detail about Imagination and whether Disney is going to actually put true resources into it. Based on Igervision, I assume we can bet the proverbial farm that it will have a licensed tie-in as it seems to be illegal in today's synergy laced company to do anything but.

Spirit says he's not coming back to this thread to wit:

Rodan75 said:
You blurted out your new stuff in a new thread that has been taken over by FP insanity. You could have had 500 pages by now.​

You're right. You do notice that I am out of that thread, right?;)
 

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