Two Spirited Quickees...Imagination closing

[misterID]

The problem with your solution is that it makes disabled guests more important than anyone else by allowing them to ride more rides per day (better value for their money) than someone who is not disabled. This isn't equitable either. We are told that disabled people want to be treated just like everyone else (which is my experience with disable guests as well) but allowing them to become a higher class of guest isn't correct either. That also isn't the case now, as the GAC card isn't intended to allow someone to just go right onto a ride. You are subject to the same wait time as everyone else, it just isn't enforced that way all the time because if possible they try to accommodate trying to get these guests on the rides as quickly as possible.

If you're going to begrudge a disabled person (or the system that helps them out) because they get a bit more of a perk to help them have an easier time that they wouldn't otherwise get, and are angry that Disney tries to give them a more enjoyable experience then that's a you problem. Get over it or stop going. Selfisish people typicaly have huge persecution complexes anyway, that something is being denied them such as getting the same perks as those pesky disabled folks, who have to put up with a thousand different things that you won't have to on an average day. Most have a limited day at the parks, and limited ability to enjoy all the rides and things the average person gets, and have a much more difficut time getting around, not even considering the pain and fatique factor a lot of these people have to put up with, nor the fact they are on specific medications and treatments that inhibit their stay. Be grateful you can enoy the parks in a way they never will.

This isn't about abuse of the GAC card, which is a problem and should be taken care of, this is about some self-centered people acting as if they're getting cheated by Disney helping out the less fortunate. Now go cry about the handicapped getting all the best parking spaces at the mall.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

I started singing the songs too! Loved that show as a kid...

Neways I don't understand why Disney just can't redo the GAC for physical injuries only...thts what the system is meant to be used for.

I think it's just lame that some people use the excuse of mental disability to try and get one. I'm not trying to be rude but if your kid has ADD or something along those lines, there is no need to give people like that the GAC! What some parents try to come up with wen they explain these things are beyond rediculous!

I used that as an example because last year I saw this very thing happening and I laughed out loud at the lady and asked her if she was serious! (Yeah I have the balls to do that kind of thing) she responded with a yes, and I responded back that those cards are for guests with physical capabilities and not just because your kid can't stand in a line for more than 5 minutes! She walked out of there with no pass...

Luckily I never ran into her later...

I certainly hope that you're not telling that story as a Cast Member?

There are countless mental disorders that a person could have that would prevent them from standing in place for long periods of time, especially in some of the longer queues. It is not your place to decide who is worthy of a GAC card, especially if you know nothing of the family's situation or the child's disorder.

 

[Yensid1974]

If you're going to begrudge a disabled person (or the system that helps them out) because they get a bit more of a perk to help them have an easier time that they wouldn't otherwise get, and are angry that Disney tries to give them a more enjoyable experience then that's a you problem. Get over it or stop going. Selfisish people typicaly have huge persecution complexes anyway, that something is being denied them such as getting the same perks as those pesky disabled folks, who have to put up with a thousand different things that you won't have to on an average day. Most have a limited day at the parks, and limited ability to enjoy all the rides and things the average person gets, and have a much more difficut time getting around, not even considering the pain and fatique factor a lot of these people have to put up with, nor the fact they are on specific medications and treatments that inhibit their stay. Be grateful you can enoy the parks in a way they never will.

This isn't about abuse of the GAC card, which is a problem and should be taken care of, this is about some self-centered people acting as if they're getting cheated by Disney helping out the less fortunate. Now go cry about the handicapped getting all the best parking spaces at the mall.

Ummm, you read way to much into that.

It was in reference to the idea of just letting everyone with a GAC etc. get right up to the front of the line. If a person (as the friend the o.p. that I was responding to mentioned in a later post) has some serious illness or whatnot then we can go ahead and help them as best we can, which is what we do every single day. But if we tried to allow that for every person that came into the parks that either has/or claims to have a disability it would at times be gridlock for many attractions. Now, with an attraction like TSMM which has a bypass lane for vehicles to be loaded with guests that would change things completely but not every attraction has that. So until that day, trying to sort the guests out with the most need is the best we can do. Some go through FP, some in chairs/scooters go through a secondary lane (if available) and we do our best to accommodate. Would we love to have all attractions set up to allow everyone on with little wait, SURE! That unfortunately isn't the reality and all we are left to do is do our best to help.

Also, don't be so quick to indignation until you know the whole story. And yes, I agree there needs to be something done about GAC abuse, and also the abuse of just renting the scooters/wheelchairs to use those lines as well. Not sure what, but hopefully something because all the abuse does is make the wait for EVERYONE (non-disabled and disabled alike) longer.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

If you're going to begrudge a disabled person (or the system that helps them out) because they get a bit more of a perk to help them have an easier time that they wouldn't otherwise get, and are angry that Disney tries to give them a more enjoyable experience then that's a you problem. Get over it or stop going. Selfisish people typicaly have huge persecution complexes anyway, that something is being denied them such as getting the same perks as those pesky disabled folks, who have to put up with a thousand different things that you won't have to on an average day. Most have a limited day at the parks, and limited ability to enjoy all the rides and things the average person gets, and have a much more difficut time getting around, not even considering the pain and fatique factor a lot of these people have to put up with, nor the fact they are on specific medications and treatments that inhibit their stay. Be grateful you can enoy the parks in a way they never will.

This isn't about abuse of the GAC card, which is a problem and should be taken care of, this is about some self-centered people acting as if they're getting cheated by Disney helping out the less fortunate. Now go cry about the handicapped getting all the best parking spaces at the mall.

This post is golden.

Do people honestly believe that guests who genuinely require a GAC card would not rather be perfectly healthy (Physically AND mentally) and stand in the regular line with everybody else? I take great pleasure in allowing parties with GAC cards that special perk of skipping the line... considering how terrible their lives tend to be in "the real world." It gives them that escape from reality that Walt Disney World is all about. Why shouldn't they have it a little easier when they're at the parks?

A lot of these complaints in here are coming off as very self-centered and inconsiderate.

Yes, there is a lot of abuse of the current system. I'm not sure how they could possibly fix it, though. Short of requiring a doctor's note (not gonna happen), it's pretty much a system that isn't going to change. The abuse is very minimal compared to the legitimate usage of the system, from my experience working attractions.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

GAC guests would be given FastPasses with a specific return time.

That actually works quite well for certain rides. That's the way they do it for RSR since it's almost impossible to get a real Fastpass. They make you come back in 45 minutes to an hour. It prevents the Fastpass line from getting too clogged up with GAC guests since they space them out. I've never worked with a GAC card at WDW, but in DL, it's not a free pass to the front of the line. We had to wait ten to twenty minutes even with the GAC card (my brother has autism and asking him to wait for more than half an hour...not going to happen!)

 

[StarWarsGirl]

This post is golden.

Do people honestly believe that guests who genuinely require a GAC card would not rather be perfectly healthy (Physically AND mentally) and stand in the regular line with everybody else? I take great pleasure in allowing parties with GAC cards that special perk of skipping the line... considering how terrible their lives tend to be in "the real world." It gives them that escape from reality that Walt Disney World is all about. Why shouldn't they have it a little easier when they're at the parks?

A lot of these complaints in here are coming off as very self-centered and inconsiderate.

Yes, there is a lot of abuse of the current system. I'm not sure how they could possibly fix it, though. Short of requiring a doctor's note (not gonna happen), it's pretty much a system that isn't going to change. The abuse is very minimal compared to the legitimate usage of the system, from my experience working attractions.

Thank you! I have a brother with autism. We've never had to use a GAC card in the past, but for our trip to DL, after three days he was so overwhelmed (and I could not handle another whack on the head). We got the pass, and it was a godsend. The rest of our trip went so much more smoothly. His behavior improved, he was calmer, he just had a much better time.

Would I rather he not have autism? Absolutely. I'd much rather he not than get a free pass for skipping a line. And we try to teach him to wait or use a regular Fastpass, but there are times when it just can't be done.

 

[misterID]

Ummm, you read way to much into that.

It was in reference to the idea of just letting everyone with a GAC etc.

No, I was responding to this:

your solution is that it makes disabled guests more important than anyone else by allowing them to ride more rides per day (better value for their money) than someone who is not disabled. We are told that disabled people want to be treated just like everyone else (which is my experience with disable guests as well) but allowing them to become a higher class of guest isn't correct either.

With all due respect, that is completely absurd. That's what I was responding to.[/quote]

 

[Oddysey]

Ummm, you read way to much into that.

It was in reference to the idea of just letting everyone with a GAC etc. get right up to the front of the line. If a person (as the friend the o.p. that I was responding to mentioned in a later post) has some serious illness or whatnot then we can go ahead and help them as best we can, which is what we do every single day. But if we tried to allow that for every person that came into the parks that either has/or claims to have a disability it would at times be gridlock for many attractions. Now, with an attraction like TSMM which has a bypass lane for vehicles to be loaded with guests that would change things completely but not every attraction has that. So until that day, trying to sort the guests out with the most need is the best we can do. Some go through FP, some in chairs/scooters go through a secondary lane (if available) and we do our best to accommodate. Would we love to have all attractions set up to allow everyone on with little wait, SURE! That unfortunately isn't the reality and all we are left to do is do our best to help.

Also, don't be so quick to indignation until you know the whole story. And yes, I agree there needs to be something done about GAC abuse, and also the abuse of just renting the scooters/wheelchairs to use those lines as well. Not sure what, but hopefully something because all the abuse does is make the wait for EVERYONE (non-disabled and disabled alike) longer.

You are completely backpedaling on what you originally posted. The context of your previous post was in defense of somebody who stated that the solution to the GAC abuse problem is that the disabled should have a friend wait in line for them or be handed pagers to wait in a designated area. Then you suggested that my solution was the incorrect solution when I never claimed to try and solve anything.

 

[Yensid1974]

You are completely backpedaling on what you originally posted. The context of your previous post was in defense of somebody who stated that the solution to the GAC abuse problem is that the disabled should have a friend wait in line for them or be handed pagers to wait in a designated area. Then you suggested that my solution was the incorrect solution when I never claimed to try and solve anything.

I'm not sure where you read in there my defense of the person's idea you originally responded to because if that was the case I would have responded to that persons post and not yours. I was responding to the idea of letting them go directly to the front of the line which is what you posted. You made it seem as if that is the policy which it actually is not so the assumption I made was that is what you would have the policy be. When you see guests bypassing the line(s) and go directly to being loaded on a boat it is usually a CM who made the decision on the spot to do that. Now, some attractions with a wheelchair access line do get those guests on the attraction quicker, but not necessarily immediately either. In addition, there is no backpedaling at all, unless actually fleshing out an idea is considered backpedaling.

Ultimately the issues involved are difficult to address. Unless we begin requesting some more definitive reasons/paperwork to justify giving someone a GAC card (which is not going to happen for a whole lot of reasons, also not saying I want that either) it will be near impossible to cut out the abusers. So all we have left is to find a way around the abusers via some other means. That means could be better ride design to take chairs etc. into account (which they have done in some cases, most recent being the Little Mermaid attraction), or something else entirely that we've not figured out yet. I want the same as everyone else, a system that is equitable to all, doing our best to have everyone get an equally magical experience. I know that we'll never have the perfect solution to this, but we can keep trying to reach that point.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Building more fixed capacity rather than optimizing it would be the opposite of lean. I'm not sure you are familiar with the concept referenced here.

Think 'just in time' manufacturing... That is closely associated with lean

Lean is largely a cost cutting issue, Fastpass+ isn't a cost cutting issue. The biggest problem with Fastpass+ is the risk that it's going to make riding rides with a minimal wait as difficult as a dining reservation. By adding capacity to attractions that never required Fastpass in the first place they're making the same mistake that many companies seeking out cost savings are doing. Other companies will replace experienced employees with lower cost employees. It's an approach that has largely been successful in many major companies, but a certain level of oversight needs to be there in order for it to fully succeed. This is because experience employees are not equal to lower cost employees. This is similar to how all Fastpass attractions are not created equal.

Look at the current 4 Fastpasses per day per guest at a park like Epcot. You can go to Epcot on many days and only need Fastpass at Test Track and Soarin', now you're getting 2 Fastpasses that you otherwise didn't need. Conversely, at the Magic Kigndom, you can get 4-8 Fastpasses on any given day. The old system's distribution was far more logical here.

 

[Gabe1]

What kid doesn't have ADD or ADHD these days?!
In Jen-World, I would give unlimited front of the line passes to the Make A Wish/Starlight Foundation kids, and GAC guests would be given FastPasses with a specific return time.

Wow! Best solution I've heard to date!

 

[tongaloosh]

Of all the original Epcot rides, Imagination 1.0 I think held up the best from a future proof perspective. I still watch Martin's tribute of it and there's really not much there that needed massive updating to remain relevant to today. Just a good solid refurb and general update to clean it up, install new cutting edge lighting effects and more expressive animatronic figures, and some other miscellaneous technical improvements (obviously take the time to install new tech that can smooth out the issues the rotating theater has always had) but it certainly didn't need to be gutted (nor should it have been especially considering the complete and utter filth that replaced it). I'd argue none of the classic Epcot rides deserved a complete gutting and reworking in the manner they got, but Imagination 1.0 was in need of the least work to get it up to date.

Spaceship Earth's 1994 rehab was fantastic and is a prime example of how to update an attraction to make it superior to the original. I can't even think of any other Disney rides that have received such a wonderful and respectful overhaul, it's a rare and virtually unheard of exception to the norm. An effort I wish they had put into all the Future World collection of rides instead of gutting and replacing them with the crap we've got now.

And yes I do call it a crappy mess they pulled. Nothing will ever convince me that Test Track is anywhere close to World of Motion, Mission SPACE is anywhere close to Horizons, Imagination 2 and 3 are anywhere close to 1.0 and etc etc.


Agreed. I won't claim Horizons didn't need updating or anything. But what it got was the last thing it needed to me. In my opinion, it needed a good long reworking like SSE's '94 overhaul. Definitely not a gutting or a replacement with a space simulator (aka glorified spinner).

If Spaceship Earth was the brain of EPCOT, i'd probably call Horizons the heart. Imagination being abstract thought that worked with the rest of them. Each pavilion kind of felt like a vital organ in its own way. Important, entertaining and insightful looks at ourselves and the universe around us. And similar to what would happen to the body, doing what they did to EPCOT literally feels like the heart, mind and creativity of the place was just ripped out and lost.

Well said!! There is a decisive lack of creativity in today's Future World, it's very disheartening, especially knowing what EPCOT Center was like, and it drives me out of my mind that nothing has definitively restored that half of the park.

 

[MOXOMUMD]

and unfortunately the upstairs area is essentially condemned.

I was just curious as to how is it condemned? A few recent "urban explorer" videos (less than a year ago) showed the upstairs to be in really good condition. AND there's so much stuff still up there. I for one would like to have one of the Figment cutout pallettes from the Figment's Coloring Book that is still hanging on the wall. I thought they were still hosting occasional private events in the atrium area.

 

[englanddg]

I was just curious as to how is it condemned? A few recent "urban explorer" videos (less than a year ago) showed the upstairs to be in really good condition. AND there's so much stuff still up there. I for one would like to have one of the Figment cutout pallettes from the Figment's Coloring Book that is still hanging on the wall. I thought they were still hosting occasional private events in the atrium area.

Not to mention...they opened it up after closing it briefly to do a Figment meet and greet.

The point is...it's not condemned, and the "fire evacuation" concerns are also invalid...

It's not open because Disney doesn't want it open. Period.

 

[Sped2424]

Not to mention...they opened it up after closing it briefly to do a Figment meet and greet.

The point is...it's not condemned, and the "fire evacuation" concerns are also invalid...

It's not open because Disney doesn't want it open. Period.

also if it were condemned that would mean the entire pavilion would have to be out of order as if the second floor is in rotting condition then I assume the first floor wouldn't be open to the public either.

 

[Sped2424]

I never got to experience the second floor, well at least I don't remember it but I honestly have seen videos and I think it would have been my favorite area in the parks and my favorite pavilion. From the stepping tones to sensor maze, its a shame really, you know what would be awesome though? If they brought back a 2.0 version of everything that was done there, something that would really make you stop and say wow I just wanna see that place shine with imagination the way it used to.

 

[englanddg]

I never got to experience the second floor, well at least I don't remember it but I honestly have seen videos and I think it would have been my favorite area in the parks and my favorite pavilion. From the stepping tones to sensor maze, its a shame really, you what would be awesome though? If they brought back a 2.0 version of everything that was done there, something that would really make you stop and say wow.

It wasn't all amazing...at one point they installed pin tables...like these...

They were cool, and as a kid I remember adoring them.

But, looking back...NASTY!

 

[Sped2424]

It wasn't all amazing...at one point they installed pin tables...like these...

They were cool, and as a kid I remember adoring them.

But, looking back...NASTY!

Even more reason why a 2.0 version needs to be done!!

 

[flynnibus]

Lean is largely a cost cutting issue, Fastpass+ isn't a cost cutting issue.

No lean isn't. Lean is about boosting productivity. Lean is about speed and agility. The ability to adapt. This results in cost saving through increased output, reduced waste, and in manufacturing this usually allows reduced inventories. Hence the connection to 'just in time' manufacturing.

Lean hinges on empowerment and listening... Two things Disney doesn't do with cms

 

[flynnibus]

Especially when your data is 23 years old.

It simply does not work that way.

dude, can you read? Of course it's 23 yrs old, the point was talking about what was around BEFORE the current implementation.