Two Spirited Quickees...Imagination closing

[StarWarsGirl]

Yeah, I might just be arguing for the sake of arguing. I get like that.

No worries, you're being polite and logical, even when others don't share your views

 

[The Duck]

Pretty sure the exorbitant wait times for TSMM have more to do with the lack of family-friendly rides at DHS, and less to do with FastPass.

I have a Facebook friend who works at Tokyo DisneySea. Several months ago, she posted that their TSMM had an 8 hour wait. I asked her if she was serious and she repeated that the wait was indeed, 8 hours. A short time later, she posted photos of a ridiculous line of people winding down the street.
From what I've seen/heard, TDS has no shortage of quality attractions and no Fast Pass and this ride gets this type of draw? That's nuts!

 

[JenniferS]

I have a Facebook friend who works at Tokyo DisneySea. Several months ago, she posted that their TSMM had an 8 hour wait. I asked her if she was serious and she repeated that the wait was indeed, 8 hours. A short time later, she posted photos of a ridiculous line of people winding down the street.
From what I've seen/heard, TDS has no shortage of quality attractions and no Fast Pass and this ride gets this type of draw? That's nuts!

What kind of person waits 8 hours for a theme park ride? One that is apparently available for the Wii console?
What happens if you have to go pee (asks the middle aged lady who pees every two hours - TMI)? What happens if your kid has to go? I don't get it.

 

[The Duck]

What kind of person waits 8 hours for a theme park ride? One that is apparently available for the Wii console?
What happens if you have to go pee (asks the middle aged lady who pees every two hours - TMI)? What happens if your kid has to go? I don't get it.

I don't get it either. I can't imagine using the bulk of a day at a theme park (especially one as expensive as a Disney park) waiting in line for one lousy ride. And this was in Tokyo!

 

[marni1971]

A fantastic example of using incomplete information with dissimilar experiments and claiming conclusive 'facts' based on comparing them. Thank you for illustrating for me the exact type of fallacies that plague the community.

You can't argue this one though. TSMM was not designed to have Fastpass. It was a local decision made at local level, against recommendation.

 

[TP2000]

You can't argue this one though. TSMM was not designed to have Fastpass. It was a local decision made at local level, against recommendation.

Is that why they don't offer Fastpass on the DCA version of Midway Mania? Because it was originally designed for DCA's Paradise Pier and later cloned for DHS?

 

[flynnibus]

Rather than demean the intelligence of others, can you provide a logical example of how Fastpass does not cause longer lines at attractions? I'd really like to hear it.

And here we have example #2...

 

[flynnibus]

In what way is that "in fact crap"? I've personally ridden numerous popular rides long before fastpass was invented (ones that remain incredibly popular even today today such as Big Thunder and Splash Mountain) and can say with confidence that fastpass has made their lines both far longer in length as well as much slower to move along than they used to be. Easily a good 3-6x than they were when they didn't used to have fastpass. This measured within the same parameters before and after with only fastpass being the differing element (same park, same time of year, similar overall park crowd sizes etc).

Again... Anecdotal that doesn't actually compare like scenarios. Aren't we comparing the same parks that have record attendance while capacity has been reduced in the parks through closures and reduction in staff? How have you accounted for these variations in your math?

You know... They call it standby for a reason. Ponder this.... Why are you fixating on only one observed item? The ride is still chewing through people if from standby or fastpass. Have you ever considered what the average wait time is for both lines combined vs the non-fp model?

The big impact on standby is when fp is heavily distributed... But conversely that means a large # of riders are also not waiting long to board. The time before your fp window is not perceived as waiting in line because you are not confined nor limited to that attraction.

So for every person you claim is waiting 30 more minutes - there are typically 5-8 people who waited less than they would have otherwise.

Fp isn't reducing capacity - it's changing the queuing model. In a way that usually results in getting more done in a day.

 

[flynnibus]

You can't argue this one though. TSMM was not designed to have Fastpass. It was a local decision made at local level, against recommendation.

That's fine. But do you think tsmm would have a 20min wait without fp?

That's all that really needs to be understood to disprove the claimed 'fact'

 

[asianway]

Re: TDS and tsmm... 8 hours is nuts but it's the new thing in a park that needs more things, similar to dhs. Don't get me wrong this isn't a slam on TDS, but it has a ways to go until buildout

 

[marni1971]

That's fine. But do you think tsmm would have a 20min wait without fp?

That's all that really needs to be understood to disprove the claimed 'fact'

Not at all. That's the fault of the park having limited constantly loading attractions.

But it'd be a damn sight better than the FP inflated mess it is now.

 

[ScoutN]

Again... Failure of logic. Who was the one claiming a factual cause and effect? The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. I'm simply showing how the supporting 'experiment' is flawed and hence the conclusions drawn from it are also flawed.

Just because when you walk out the door of your house... You see the sun... That doesn't mean you walking out of your house causes the sun to rise.

These are just both examples where people make factual observations but make incorrect conclusions because their methods are incomplete.

I overly agree with your argument here. I feel the insane lines are a result of lack of offerings and/or overstuffing parks for the sake of food/merch sales. The item I see that as a small part of the problem is how FP puts a person like me in the FP line that otherwise would not have waited. Why would I not have ridden otherwise, you ask? Because I am not willing to wait in such a long line. I feel your point is the actual problem while FP enhances it to a certain extent. I know there are SEVERAL others out there who share the same sentiment. Countless times each trip I hear families say they are not riding without a FP. Can FP make a stand by line 15%-25% longer? Sure! I am not willing to go anything past then.

If you have several people who will not ride without FP get FPs and in line it does hold up the stand by. This past trip, seven weeks ago, I stood in RnR stand by for the first time in 10+ years just because it felt nice out and I did not mind standing. What I did mind was being three groups back from the split and taking 25 minutes for those three groups to go into pre-show. When Standby is essentially ignored in favor of FP that certainly can add wait times. Especially when/if several of those with FP would not have ridden without.

 

[ScoutN]

That's fine. But do you think tsmm would have a 20min wait without fp?

That's all that really needs to be understood to disprove the claimed 'fact'

And why do I not buy into it is all FP, Etc?

I live within 20 miles of BGW where there are PLENTY of rides and they can maintain 90+ minute waits. Being privvy to some info from sources in the park though, the Quick Queue offered there has increased waits in a very minor manner, 5-10 minutes on waits over 30 minutes. Those who purchased those are in the same boat as "If I did not have QQ I would not ride it." I do feel that the number of QQ issued on any given day is much lower than the number of FP issued per day. I never see a QQ line get to half of the FP line either.

 

[Nemo14]

One other observation: It seems that acquiring a TSM FP is kind of a trophy to many guests - the "must do" for the park. Not necessarily because they enjoy the ride, but they enjoy winning that "prize". Without it, they could care less about that ride, and would much prefer to just play it on the Wii at home.

 

[Belowthesurface]

This year there was a period of time when Peter Pan's Flight, Winnie the Pooh and Journey of the Little Mermaid did not offer FP.

Mermaid--on opening day!-- with no FP had a 45 minute wait. The next day with FP, 120 minutes.

Peter Pan's Flight 25-35.

Pooh 20-25.

All of you who don't work Attractions or know anyone that does should really invest the time and talk to those CMs. For the most part, it is a hated system and causes a lot of Guest situations.

Next time you watch 80 people go ahead of you from FP, think about that CM from China at Merge who is crying because a Guest is screaming at them, poking them with their fingers and demanding an explanation to why the wait is so long ,but just yells over the CM who tries to explain.

Or think about that CM who is getting spit on or physically assaulted because they are following the Merge ratio numbers.

FP is so great!

 

[marni1971]

This year there was a period of time when Peter Pan's Flight, Winnie the Pooh and Journey of the Little Mermaid did not offer FP.

Mermaid--on opening day!-- with no FP had a 45 minute wait. The next day with FP, 120 minutes.

Peter Pan's Flight 25-35.

Pooh 20-25.

Quoted for truth. Soft Opening day of Mermaid was a revelation. About noon the following day fast past was turned on and the standby line mushroomed.

 

[Figments Friend]

I just recently listened to the 07 SSE Bruce Broughton score by itself without the narration and while the music is admittedly one of the relatively less painful aspects of the current SSE, It is rather underwhelming and is basically the same basic theme repeating itself up until the Renaissance scene. The 1994 score on the other hand combined with Irons narration was one of the most epic and emotional experiences I have ever had. That music captured and enhanced the aura of the attraction and it's message perfectly. It felt like an organic part of the attraction where the current score is basically an underscore to the often physically painful Judi Dench narration.

Agree.
When word reached my ears that Bruce Broughton was to do the new score for the refurbed SSE in 07' i was thrilled. I really enjoy many of his past scores..some truly epic, soaring themes ( Dinosaur, Treasure Planet, Rescuers Down Under i believe too..).

Once SSE reopened, i was eager to hear the new music.
After the first ride, i was unwhelmed. The new narration and presentation put me off, but just focusing on the music left me to wonder if Bruce actually was involved in the score at all. It was not quite in league with his other wonderful works and general quality.
His works are famous for their soaring themes.

It seemed a wasted opportunity, but then again he could have possibly been told by the ride designers what type of 'feel' they wanted for music.
I get that impression listening to it...as Bruce could have really knocked it out of the ball park. Most of his past works stand out in that way.

Why not SSE?

The Irons version was indeed well done.
Recently re-visited the score and ride narration the other night and it truly was inspiring and majestic.
The way EPCOT attractions SHOULD be....not dumbed down and filled with gimmicky add-ons.

Perhaps the next refub/re-do will replace the currant score and narrations with something more in line with that ....

 

[71jason]

I'm still amused that the waits for RSR are so long that they feel the need to sell drinks in line...

During Halloween Horror Nights, Universal builds (temporary) bars into the lines for the haunted houses. And then sends out Jello shot girls, as well.

 

[misterID]

TSMM huge lines also have a lot to do with the fact that MGM doesn't have a diverse (or decent) line up of attractions for the entire family. The lines are proof of the failings of offerings of that park in terms of real attractions.

 

[Rodan75]

So FastPass is a virtual queuing system. Fast Pass doesn't increase the overall wait for an attraction, it increases the wait for Stand By lines which is offset by a virtual queue that has a 5-10 minute wait on arrival.

I don't like how Fast Pass has changed the WDW experience, but to say it has made rides less available or increased the overall daily wait time is mathematically impossible.

I believe if they adjusted the Fast Pass distro quantities by hour for rides like Soarin and TSMM the stand-by lines would be bearable.