Two coasts: One very different world

[lazyboy97o]

So that's why there have been missing ceiling tiles in Small World for 5+ years? Makes perfect sense now!

Of course! A drop ceiling with black tiles is an advanced and complicated piece of construction. Where else can you see something like that? The Disney Magic® is still there in the remaining tiles, but for guest safety it was best to scale back that complicated piece of technology.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Hey 74 u read Ricky's(insidethemagic) tweet's today? Couldn't believe he actually went as far as to almost say he was dissapointed in wdw and it's current projects compared to DL

I really believe Ricky is fair in his assessments of things. He's not mean about it, he's not vicious about it, but he will acknowledge when he's been comped and still treat it fairly.

I don't have any fear of Social Media. I have a strong distaste for it. Much like I have the idea of 'citizen journalists' ... this isn't like scooping ice cream on Main Street, everyone can't do it nor should they.

And the proliferation of fan sites as well as Facebook and Twitter means people don't have to engage in conversations with others they may disagree with. The Twitverse is an echo chamber ... might as well call it FOX News or MSNBC because you know you aren't going to get real news, you're going to hear what you want to hear before tuning in (so what if it's made up or exaggerated?)

I don't know how many folks this site alone has lost over the past few years to either the Twitverse/FB or their own blogs/Disney Lifestyle sites. At the risk of being a MAGICal shill, which I most definitely am NOT, I don't think that's a good thing. People need to be exposed to other views and perspectives, everyone isn't the same and one size does not fit all.

But if you hide in the Twitverse, no chance of you having to actually defend a viewpoint or a comment.

Sites like this had enough support when Facebook and Twitter picked up steam, but I know there have been rumors posted on Facebook and Twitter that have been brought to these boards for verification. Facebook and Twitter have definitely killed a niche type discussion forum like this. We had forums linked to our site but found Facebook to be a much better medium for discussion.

I know some podcasters now. I like them. I think they're very nice folks and quite intelligent. I still think they're living out some fantasy to be morning drive hosts on top 40 radio. ... I just can't listen. I don't see a need for podcasts. I just don't.

How dare you.

Can you imagine if the Orlando Sentinel wrote something like this about WDW?
http://www.latimes.com/travel/deals...enture-retrospective-06201217,0,6371327.story
This is why progress happens at Disneyland, folks.

This is an excellent point. For things like the Yeti to be fixed it still needs to be picked up by a major media outlet. There was an article (I believe it was Jason Garcia) about the Disco Yeti, and that started from a poster on this forum. I believe Lee was actually quoted in the article. This is the type of stuff that needs to happen more often. That was one article that ultimately went away, persistence is key here.

 

[janoimagine]

As far as quality, I'm not sure what you "felt" in 1990. You might get a similar feeling at a strip club in 2012.

You just dont get it, do you Nancy? .... Quality was everything back then.

Disney has been declining by degrees on the East Coast for years, people are simply asking to stop wasting capital on a next gen project that boils down to a Big Brother Research Project and start spending money on things that need it like maintenance, new attractions (not clones of existing ones) more personel and new shows.

In reality you probably have no frame of reference because you never visited the parks back then, but for those of us who have been going consistently to Disney over the past 20 years, its much more apparent.

I will point out that you do have one thing going for you ... and that is you appear to be the new target consumer for Disney's Orlando property, one who thinks things are just good enough and are willing to spend the money on a mediocre product.

 

[Bolna]

They don't. They raised my AP $75 this year, I think DVC's went up about $15. I guess they don't think I spent more in 31 years of being an APer than someone who spent $18,000 for DVC last year. They should keep better tabs on their 'whales' ... but they should be wary of thinking that fanbois with lower expectations is the way to go in 'replacing' guests like myself ... because that demo tends to have the attention span of a kitty and they can get bored very quickly and move on to something else.

TDO and Burbank believe that there's a never-ending supply of guests to replace people who become fed up or to simply replace people who go once and say 'that's OK, check it off the list, no need to go back.''

They're wrong.

Actually, there is an interesting analysis of the AP price hikes and what it means for ticket purchase strategies on the Touringplans blog which comes to the following conclusion:

But it sure seems to me that Disney, between the increases in the Dining Plan costs, the lack of hotel discounts, and the increases in Annual Pass and other costs, is looking to discourage Annual Pass visitors and get more 5-day or longer “new” ticket purchasers.

Full article can be found here.

I really wonder whether the strategy to discourage people buying one AP to cover two trips might not turn out to be rather negative for Disney. If you don't have to come back within 12 months to get enough use out of your AP, maybe you decide not to come back the next summer after all. It frees up a guest who otherwise was rather locked in for a Disney vacation.

 

[Longhairbear]

Well, I'm sure you saw my post on DVCers and why they haven't done much. I don't know if you commented on it, so I'll reserve further comment myself except to say I am VERY disappointed that the DVC community, by and large, seems to be full of addicts who think WDW has never been better.


.

Hi WDW74, We are DVC members since 2003 from California. I might have an answer why DVC members haven't said much about WDW. But first I will say we haven't been to WDW going on 2 years now, when we used to go twice a year. The reason? Airfare, and nothing new to see. We have been using our DVC points for trips to Disneyland here instead, and for Disney cruises from the west coast. When deciding about this year's trips, we knew we wanted to go as many times to DCA as possible once it was finished, and WDW fell by the wayside again.
On all the DVC forums I read, the subject of park quality on either coast rarely comes up. If it does, it is usually moved to another non DVC forum for being off topic. The forums usually only deal with DVC specific comments, rumors, and ideas. There is one subject that does come up all the time. DVC members who have never been to Disneyland, and wondering if they should go. Most have heard that DLR is tiny, crowded, and up till now a 1, or 2 day park. Then someone will comment on just coming back from DLR in amazement that they loved it there. The comparisons are about DLR vrs WDW, but more skewed to how the Grand California Villas compare to the rest of the DVC resorts in FLA., most usually members say the CA villas are much nicer...but not always. The biggest complaint being there are no vacancies. With only 48 villas total, they book up fast. I know from personal experience. I could not book a villa at DLR from now until New Year's.
I'm sure there are DVC members complaining, but just not identified as a DVC members. As for DVC members being totally blinded by their love of WDW, some have taken the blinders off, and are selling their contracts. They just don't post it on a thread such as this.
So while I got you're attention, any rumors of adding more DVC units on the west coast? We need them, as much as WDW needs new attractions.

 

[Longhairbear]

I had some more thoughts on DVC members, and what happens when they do make complaints.
DVC wanted to change out glass for paper cups, and styrofoam for ceramic coffee mugs in the studio villas. The membership at large had a fit, and wrote letters to everyone in the chain of command, including the DVC magazine, myself included. The glass, and ceramics were returned.
DVC had to retrofit, or redo the rooms at Bay Lake Towers because of complaints from the members. The latest complaint being shoddy furniture/fixtures at Bay Lake Towers, and the wear and tear already showing. Housekeeping is another hot topic.
DVC members do band together to set things right, but on DVC forums about DVC, not the parks specifically.
The more chance the DVC members have to compare CA, and Disney Sea with WDW, the more chance of noticing whats wrong. Also remember DVC members usually come from a distance, and just being at WDW for a week is a treat, never mind complaining about Yeti. We also spend less time going commando in the parks, and stay at our resort more, cook dinner in etc. The Disney Dining Plan is a huge sore point for a lot of us, and a boon to the others.
However, being a DLR fanboi, I did complain about my home park, ten years ago. I did go to guest relations and mention problems I saw. I did write letters.
I and my band of Disney freaks also made sure we stopped into guest relations with compliments when Disney got things right, every time we noticed something great, new paint, when Murphy was added to Fantazmic etc.
I haven't complained about WDW mainly because I haven't been in 2 years, and not seen things for myself. Perhaps DVC is tracking my vacations , and may wonder why I am spending all my DVC points in CA, instead of FLA. If they ask I'll tell them why. Nothing new to see, and a lot of new things to see in CA.
We also bought Premier AP's thinking we would go to FLA, and CA, and that we'd save some bucks. That changed when we nixed our FLA vacation. So now we are using our Premier AP to get into Disneyland, and DCA, and for discounts all over the resort. I can't believe Disney is not tracking us through our AP and how we use it. The bean counters are probably having fits of joy at the money we spent on our AP's, but perhaps marketing, or other entity is asking why we aren't at WDW?

 

[asianway]

Back to the original point of the thread, Orlando Attractions magazine sent as many tweets out yesterday about Agent P and the Cars wing as they did on their DL junket

 

[marni1971]

Universal spent 500 million rebranding two rides and adding Forbidden Journey.

No. Less than half that.

If it were 500 mil however, WDI would charge 750m for the same thing.

 

[Tom]

Hi WDW74, We are DVC members since 2003 from California. I might have an answer why DVC members haven't said much about WDW. But first I will say we haven't been to WDW going on 2 years now, when we used to go twice a year. The reason? Airfare, and nothing new to see. We have been using our DVC points for trips to Disneyland here instead, and for Disney cruises from the west coast. When deciding about this year's trips, we knew we wanted to go as many times to DCA as possible once it was finished, and WDW fell by the wayside again.
On all the DVC forums I read, the subject of park quality on either coast rarely comes up. If it does, it is usually moved to another non DVC forum for being off topic. The forums usually only deal with DVC specific comments, rumors, and ideas. There is one subject that does come up all the time. DVC members who have never been to Disneyland, and wondering if they should go. Most have heard that DLR is tiny, crowded, and up till now a 1, or 2 day park. Then someone will comment on just coming back from DLR in amazement that they loved it there. The comparisons are about DLR vrs WDW, but more skewed to how the Grand California Villas compare to the rest of the DVC resorts in FLA., most usually members say the CA villas are much nicer...but not always. The biggest complaint being there are no vacancies. With only 48 villas total, they book up fast. I know from personal experience. I could not book a villa at DLR from now until New Year's.
I'm sure there are DVC members complaining, but just not identified as a DVC members. As for DVC members being totally blinded by their love of WDW, some have taken the blinders off, and are selling their contracts. They just don't post it on a thread such as this.
So while I got you're attention, any rumors of adding more DVC units on the west coast? We need them, as much as WDW needs new attractions.

I had some more thoughts on DVC members, and what happens when they do make complaints.
DVC wanted to change out glass for paper cups, and styrofoam for ceramic coffee mugs in the studio villas. The membership at large had a fit, and wrote letters to everyone in the chain of command, including the DVC magazine, myself included. The glass, and ceramics were returned.
DVC had to retrofit, or redo the rooms at Bay Lake Towers because of complaints from the members. The latest complaint being shoddy furniture/fixtures at Bay Lake Towers, and the wear and tear already showing. Housekeeping is another hot topic.
DVC members do band together to set things right, but on DVC forums about DVC, not the parks specifically.
The more chance the DVC members have to compare CA, and Disney Sea with WDW, the more chance of noticing whats wrong. Also remember DVC members usually come from a distance, and just being at WDW for a week is a treat, never mind complaining about Yeti. We also spend less time going commando in the parks, and stay at our resort more, cook dinner in etc. The Disney Dining Plan is a huge sore point for a lot of us, and a boon to the others.
However, being a DLR fanboi, I did complain about my home park, ten years ago. I did go to guest relations and mention problems I saw. I did write letters.
I and my band of Disney freaks also made sure we stopped into guest relations with compliments when Disney got things right, every time we noticed something great, new paint, when Murphy was added to Fantazmic etc.
I haven't complained about WDW mainly because I haven't been in 2 years, and not seen things for myself. Perhaps DVC is tracking my vacations , and may wonder why I am spending all my DVC points in CA, instead of FLA. If they ask I'll tell them why. Nothing new to see, and a lot of new things to see in CA.
We also bought Premier AP's thinking we would go to FLA, and CA, and that we'd save some bucks. That changed when we nixed our FLA vacation. So now we are using our Premier AP to get into Disneyland, and DCA, and for discounts all over the resort. I can't believe Disney is not tracking us through our AP and how we use it. The bean counters are probably having fits of joy at the money we spent on our AP's, but perhaps marketing, or other entity is asking why we aren't at WDW?

We've been DVC since 2008. We're using points to go with friends in November and are staying at BLT (I'm anxious to see the rooms since our first visit was right after it opened, and we got to experience the less than stellar rooms). However, for the first time every, we're going to use our 2013 points and head to DLR sometime Spring or early Summer 2013.

We've bled WDW, and never really had an interest to venture west...but after all the hype about the classic attractions being superior to MK's, and hearing how the parks are taken care of, and now the addition of Cars Land and BVS, it's time spend our money out there.

We're just one party, but maybe this will become a trend and someone will notice.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't have any fear of Social Media. I have a strong distaste for it. Much like I have the idea of 'citizen journalists' ... this isn't like scooping ice cream on Main Street, everyone can't do it nor should they.

And the proliferation of fan sites as well as Facebook and Twitter means people don't have to engage in conversations with others they may disagree with. The Twitverse is an echo chamber ... might as well call it FOX News or MSNBC because you know you aren't going to get real news, you're going to hear what you want to hear before tuning in (so what if it's made up or exaggerated?)

Twitter is not any more an echo chamber than any other medium where people selectively chose to only associate with birds of a feather. Twitter when used correctly is not about following only your friends, but watching the pulse of everyone. It's faster and more diverse than ANY single news or community site. Some people get hung up over what happens on twitter (twitter spats) but really no one cares about that except the obcessive ones. That's where people lack the balance.. to think because something happened on twitter or here or somewhere else the world was rocked.. They may lack perspective, but that doesn't negate Twitter's intrinsic value.

I don't know how many folks this site alone has lost over the past few years to either the Twitverse/FB or their own blogs/Disney Lifestyle sites. At the risk of being a MAGICal shill, which I most definitely am NOT, I don't think that's a good thing. People need to be exposed to other views and perspectives, everyone isn't the same and one size does not fit all.

I doubt very many at all - the different formats have different 'commitments' and return different values. If you want engaging discussion... blogs and twitter aren't it. If all you want is some updates on happenings... twitter is it. If you want to talk and not face anyone.. they'll post on a blog until they get lonely and then come back to another format.

I haven't really spent much time on Inside the Magic because I simply have a very limited amount of time to devote to Disney while online and I can't justify the time in going from site to site.

I only watch their newsfeed in my RSS reader. I don't even know if they have a community portion. They host some of the best videos out there - that's their main value to me.

I don't agree. I think there's greater chatter on more channels. But that's much like cable TV ... is it really better to have 180 channels? I still can't find anything to watch!

I also think the goal isn't to kill off sites that are more balanced and not all Pixie Dust, all the time. Check out the YouTube of Disney Social Media talkng head Duncan Wardle where he crows that for every negative comment in the online world that Disney gets 18 positive ones. That's what Disney cares about. Even here on MAGIC, how many threads are really negative (realistic?) about Disney? I don't ever read the planning boards or the DVC boards or even the dining board (I should cause I like food!), but I doubt many threads are negative.

Regardless of reality - Disney can always cherry pick stats to make themselves look good. But as in all business, it really doesn't matter how many happy customers you have when dealing with an unhappy customer. You don't need to be the majority, simply credible and have critical mass of your own. 'reality' fan sites don't need to manufacture drama (shock jocks, cable news, etc) to get a following.. Disney does it for them! Disney can try to crowd them out by nurturing a pixiedust crowd - but it won't work ultimately. You can shape champions for your product, who will evangelize for you.. but as long as your faults are still there, those impacted by those faults will not roll over because of a bunch of evangelicals floating around.

So what if it gets the social media the stats they want to report up to their bosses.. it doesn't really alter the core balance. And to your cable analogy... just because there are now 10 shopping channels instead of 1.. it's not going to make me want to start buying product from a cable infomercial.

I know some podcasters now. I like them. I think they're very nice folks and quite intelligent. I still think they're living out some fantasy to be morning drive hosts on top 40 radio. ... I just can't listen. I don't see a need for podcasts. I just don't.

I listen to podcasts for commentary and deep dives. In tech area, there is a lot of good content, from credible people to listen to. Unfortunately in the Disney space, most are just hacks that are unbearable to listen to.

 

[NewfieFan]

But...there are people out there who really, truly, do prefer McDonald's over haute cuisine. Go stand at a Wendy's and offer the hungry folk a platter of wine-poached salmon in creamy truffle sauce instead.

Many guests really, truly do love TSMM and Soarin'. They do. With or without the dusty projection, regardless of TSMM being a glorified Wii game on office chairs.

For all my nagging about the MK being turned into an infantile, cartoonified toddler playground, I must not overlook one thing: a great many guests want it to be turned into exactly that. They love it. They want spinners and beer and celebrities.
If one loses sight of that, one might think Disney is stupid, mean, evil or stingy. (Well...it is.) But it is also often times simply responding to genuine guest demand, whether one abhors the simplicity of their taste or not. The dumbing down of WDW is greatly owing to the dumbed down demands of the guests entering the gates. WDW is being reshaped to their liking.

My hope is with a further increase of prices.

Your over generalization is not fair here. I like TSMM, I do... but that doesn't mean I like chicken nuggets more than a filet with mushroom risotto! TSMM serves it's purpose - does it mean that every ride needs to follow the same format and have screens everywhere? No! TSMM is a little more than a "glorified Wii game on office chiars"! And suggesting so is ridiculous. A lot of TSMM's popularity comes from the fact that DHS is lacking in family friendly rides. It doesn't mean the guests are dumb... the guests are flocking to one of the few rides that they can all enjoy together as a family and get some value out of that ticket they just bought!
Just b/c folks like Soarin' and TSMM doesn't mean the WDW resort has to be "dumbed" down. If you want to blame TDO for all that's wrong in the World, fine... but don't put the blame on guests. Guests are allowed to enjoy TSMM and Soarin', just as we're allowed to enjoy POTC and Haunted Mansion!

 

[JRS1984]

I personally love TSMM & Soarin. I'm getting a little tired with all the WDW hate. Last time I checked this was called wdwmagic not dlmagic. We get it, you guys like Disneyland better. I like WDW better and that doesn't mean that I'm not a true die hard disney fan...I am.

 

[JustChillinBro]

Disney Orlando is constantly "upgrading" things that don't need to be upgraded. From the conversion of Enchanted Grove to Cheshire Cafe to the "reimagining" of the Winnie the Pooh Meet and Greet at the Toy Solider store to the refurbishment of the Hotel Frontenac, Main Street facades, Oasis, etc. None of those things were/are necessary. Not to mention a major refurbishment of Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and now Test Track. I would guess a major refurbishment of Splash Mountain is next and you will receive your spinning bumblebees!

Obviously you can whine until the cow comes home (or whatever an old saying would be) about where/how money is being spent, but it is being spent. I think once you accept the fact that WDC goals are different than your own, the happier you will end up being.

Your demographic isn't a priority and probably will never be.

 

[HMF]

I personally love TSMM & Soarin. I'm getting a little tired with all the WDW hate. Last time I checked this was called wdwmagic not dlmagic. We get it, you guys like Disneyland better. I like WDW better and that doesn't mean that I'm not a true die hard disney fan...I am.

That's way of an oversimplification. How many times must we re-iterate this. We want what is best for WDW. As of right now Disneyland is in magnificent shape and we want the standard practiced at DL to be adopted at WDW which is why we give Disneyland praise while WDW is currently offering a lesser product. We WANT WDW to do well, We are not "haters". The problem is that WDW as of right now is leagues below Disneyland Show quality-wise thanks to poor management and I find it upsetting because WDW should be as good as or better than Disneyland. I feel that if you truly love something, you should want what is best for it. I feel like I have been explaining this forever.

 

[JustChillinBro]

We want what the 15 of us on this forum think is best for WDW.

HMF, thank you for joining the discussion! You previously seemed to only be able to click the "like" button! I have fixed your post for you.

 

[HMF]

HMF, thank you for joining the discussion! You previously seemed to only be able to click the "like" button! I have fixed your post for you.

I only post when I have something to say.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

For things like the Yeti to be fixed it still needs to be picked up by a major media outlet. There was an article (I believe it was Jason Garcia) about the Disco Yeti, and that started from a poster on this forum. I believe Lee was actually quoted in the article. This is the type of stuff that needs to happen more often. That was one article that ultimately went away, persistence is key here.

 

[JustChillinBro]

I only post when I have something to say.

Could have fooled me! LOL!

 

[the-reason14]

Perhaps it's time to finally grow up, leave neverland and say goodbye. We all outgrow things, friends, and even places. And when one involves spending money, it shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[devoy1701]

I stopped going... it's been great. More money in my pocket, no rose colored glasses anymore. I see WDW for what it really is, and I really don't have a desire to return anytime soon. At this rate our next visit will be for the 50th. On the flipside, we are anxiously trying to get back to Disneyland, which unfortunately doesn't look like it will be possible until the 60th. In the meantime, we'll subsidize our Disney fix with some trips on the cruiseline...which showcases everything Disney service should be.