Two coasts: One very different world

[JustChillinBro]

Also sorry if I don't have your position recorded properly. Were you saying that if WDC spends five billion dollars on Walt Disney World over the next five years, that ticket pricing would increase at the same or a similar rate as if they did not invest five billion dollars?

 

[Lee]

A similar rate, though the idea of a $5billion investment is far from realistic.
Ticket prices increase regularly, regardless if there are any new offerings or not.
This year is a good example. At WDW, certain APs increased by nearly 20%. Obviously, this is not due to there being much more to do, but because Disney knows what the market will bear and acts accordingly.

Certainly, prices may tick up a bit more if there is capital investments in the property, but it would not be a particularly large jump.
The return on investment that they speak of comes from many areas, including but not primarily, ticket price increases.

Or at least that's how it has always been explained to me...

 

[JustChillinBro]

I'm laughing out loud. Isn't this thread partially about how WDC is spending billions on WDW via "invisible" things related to "NextGen?" That is money spent too, regardless of whether or not it translates into there being "much more to do" or not.

Great though! Spend the five bills if it isn't going to cost me anything!

I think it would be helpful to outline exactly what you want to happen and concede points that aren't feasible. For example, if the lawyers don't want the yeti operating because there's a possibility it could fall on your head, then you have to drop it entirely.

I get that you want "quality to improve" but I am not sure what that means. Is fixing the spinning bumblebees in Splash Mountain and finding someone else to narrate Spaceship Earth because you don't like the new voice enough? Will you stop whining if they put the Lights of Winter back up?

Seriously though. If you're talking about Disney dropping billions and billions of dollars, it is going to result in a huge ticket price increase, whether you think that makes sense or not. LOL!

 

[Lee]

I'm laughing out loud. Isn't this thread partially about how WDC is spending billions on WDW via "invisible" things related to "NextGen?" That is money spent too, regardless of whether or not it translates into there being "much more to do" or not.

Not sure what your point is here.
NextGen is a profit increasing entity in and of itself. In fact, as already noted elsewhere, they expect it to generate an increase in revenue of up to 11% in the first couple years, not even relying on ticket prices.

I think it would be helpful to outline exactly what you want to happen and concede points that aren't feasible. For example, if the lawyers don't want the yeti operating because there's a possibility it could fall on your head, then you have to drop it entirely.

I get that you want "quality to improve" but I am not sure what that means. Is fixing the spinning bumblebees in Splash Mountain and finding someone else to narrate Spaceship Earth because you don't like the new voice enough? Will you stop whining if they put the Lights of Winter back up?

Seriously though. If you're talking about Disney dropping billions and billions of dollars, it is going to result in a huge ticket price increase, whether you think that makes sense or not. LOL!

The rest of this doesn't seem to warrant a reply, as it seems like some sort of rhetorical statement, much of which I disagree with.

 

[JustChillinBro]

Oh, a double digit return on investment?

Okay, you're absolutely right. A five billion dollar investment in Walt Disney World would have no impact whatsoever on ticket pricing. Can you do me a favor though? Can you and WDW1974 make a list of exactly what you want sometime? And I'm not talking about some epoch "Oh my God these guys are brilliant" esoteric BS. But actually what you want. What it looks like. How it would work.

Cutting my own BS, I'm actually somewhat curious.

 

[WDW1974]

How do I report a violation?

And just in case anyone thinks Spirit is too hard on Disney, check out this article. This guy is hard core, its almost as if...Nah, couldn't be...

http://www.latimes.com/travel/deals...enture-retrospective-06201217,0,6371327.story

I read that earlier today ... I think it was a bit ... brutal.

But it was an opinion piece and he's entitled to his. I enjoyed DCA 1.0 (again, REALLY!)

I think he made some salient points. Bug's Land looks good, but was so cheap and the attractions so uninspired, for instance. And having the Wharf act as a de facto food court certainly hampers expansion. Then, there's the empty buildings in Hollywoodland from Millionaire and Hollywood and Vine.

BUT ... some things I think he was way off on. When you add in the costs of things like Bug's Land, ToT, Monsters and all the 'temporary' fixes Disney threw at it over the years, the park is actually starting to approach what Westcot might have cost. And calling Eureka awful (can't recall his exact word) isn't true. It was one of the best parades going at the time and they just flat out panicked (yeah, Georgie K, looking at you) and destroyed it and threw the MSEP in a park it didn't fit in. All it needed was one or two Disney characters in themed costumes and it could have run for years. And to act like GRR should be removed as well as the winery ... well, that sounds like fanboi blather.

Clearly, though, DCA isn't 'fixed' ... sure, it looks much better and I'm sure is. But you have areas that haven't been touched and things that got cut.

And remember there was supposed to be a Phase II of this ... and you haven't heard that mentioned in over two years now. Wonder why?

 

[Lee]

Oh, a double digit return on investment?

Okay, you're absolutely right. A five billion dollar investment in Walt Disney World would have no impact whatsoever on ticket pricing. Can you do me a favor though? Can you and WDW1974 make a list of exactly what you want sometime? And I'm not talking about some epoch "Oh my God these guys are brilliant" esoteric BS. But actually what you want. What it looks like. How it would work.

Cutting my own BS, I'm actually somewhat curious.

That $5billion number is ridiculous and a waste if time.
Make it reasonable, say $500mil.-$700mil. In such case, no. I don't think there would be an unusually large ticket increase.

And no, I'll pass on making a list. Anyone with an open mind who has been paying attention over the last few years know what sort of changes and improvements myself and others would like to see. (No, new narration for SSE isn't on the list...)
But I will say this...jump in a time machine back to, say...1990. I want that quality, that commitment to high standards, and that level of guest service.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm laughing out loud. Isn't this thread partially about how WDC is spending billions on WDW via "invisible" things related to "NextGen?" That is money spent too, regardless of whether or not it translates into there being "much more to do" or not.

Great though! Spend the five bills if it isn't going to cost me anything!

I'm trying to figure out what (if anything) you are trying to point out. ... Some of us believe NEXT GEN is a huge waste of capital for mostly data-mining, back of the house type of reasons. Not rebuilding crumbling infratsructure or adding new things to the parks.

What is your point? That Disney shouldn't ever add anything because they're going to pass the cost on to you?

Disney has been raising prices for decades and the increases keep getting steeper. Last year my pass went up $11. This year, that number is over $75. Yet, I don't see much new at all.

I think it would be helpful to outline exactly what you want to happen and concede points that aren't feasible. For example, if the lawyers don't want the yeti operating because there's a possibility it could fall on your head, then you have to drop it entirely.

This is a dumb point that seems to be the latest urban/CM/fanboi myth to go around. The lawyers have nothing to do with the yeti not operating, so let's stop that misinformation right here. I think the next thing is Disney is removing ceilings because parts of them might fall on guests. Another poster told me that this has been gaining steam the past few days to justify all sorts of bad upkeep/management at WDW. It just isn't true.

I get that you want "quality to improve" but I am not sure what that means. Is fixing the spinning bumblebees in Splash Mountain and finding someone else to narrate Spaceship Earth because you don't like the new voice enough? Will you stop whining if they put the Lights of Winter back up?

Do you want quality to improve? Or do you think WDW is better than ever? Or do you simply not care so long as Disney only gouges you for a certain percentage annual increase in ticket media?

Because I think you're just looking to stir things up with people who are critical of WDW's current direction.

Seriously though. If you're talking about Disney dropping billions and billions of dollars, it is going to result in a huge ticket price increase, whether you think that makes sense or not. LOL!

Funny, Disney has had huge price increases when reporting record profits and offering the same stale product, so your whole premise needs some work.

 

[WDW1974]

That $5billion number is ridiculous and a waste if time.
Make it reasonable, say $500mil.-$700mil. In such case, no. I don't think there would be an unusually large ticket increase.

And no, I'll pass on making a list. Anyone with an open mind who has been paying attention over the last few years know what sort of changes and improvements myself and others would like to see. (No, new narration for SSE isn't on the list...)
But I will say this...jump in a time machine back to, say...1990. I want that quality, that commitment to high standards, and that level of guest service.

I don't know about you, but I sorta feel someone is playing a bit.

But yeah, after seeing those videos recently ... I'd say 1990 quality would be fine with me too. They could never do TDR quality.

 

[JustChillinBro]

OMG!!!!!!!!! You poor thing! That $11 meant you couldn't buy the double chocolate crepe? Did you have to get the single? That's terrible.

I don't care about the yeti. I've ridden it (the ride, not the yeti) 100 times (actually more like 30 times). It doesn't swipe. It isn't the end of the world. Few people care that it doesn't swipe, mind you. Remember all the posts reporting that the yeti is moving again? Because the effect doesn't work at all, right? Even if you stood outside with a sign (or as a blog post on whatswrongwithdisneyworld.com) stating that the yeti wasn't "operating in A-Mode," few people would care. Just look at guest satisfaction polling.

I'm not saying I don't want five billion invested. I'm actually of the opposite opinion. But it's going to cost us. To say ticket pricing isn't going to increase with five billion invested is laughable.

As far as your (Lee) 500 million investment, you want a lot more don't you? 500 million won't even buy you a D-Ticket in Avatarland.

As far as quality, I'm not sure what you "felt" in 1990. You might get a similar feeling at a strip club in 2012.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As far as your (Lee) 500 million investment, you want a lot more don't you? 500 million won't even buy you a D-Ticket in Avatarland.

That is just because Disney has turned wasting money into an art.

 

[JustChillinBro]

Universal spent 500 million rebranding two rides and adding Forbidden Journey.

 

[WDW1974]

OMG!!!!!!!!! You poor thing! That $11 meant you couldn't buy the double chocolate crepe? Did you have to get the single? That's terrible.

OMG!!!!!!You are funny. My crepe was actually nutella with coconut and was fab.

I don't care about the yeti. I've ridden it (the ride, not the yeti) 100 times (actually more like 30 times). It doesn't swipe. It isn't the end of the world. Few people care that it doesn't swipe, mind you. Remember all the posts reporting that the yeti is moving again? Because the effect doesn't work at all, right? Even if you stood outside with a sign (or as a blog post on whatswrongwithdisneyworld.com) stating that the yeti wasn't "operating in A-Mode," few people would care. Just look at guest satisfaction polling.

Disney's surveying is a complete fraud designed to get responses that justify management decisions. I've known folks who worked in that department. So whether guests think WDW is more MAGICal than ever based on polling means little.

EE was built with Disco Yeti as its key component, the climax of the attraction. Whether or not you or 96% of people noticed or cared doesn't matter ... that is an excuse that turns Disney into Walmart very quickly.

I'm not saying I don't want five billion invested. I'm actually of the opposite opinion. But it's going to cost us. To say ticket pricing isn't going to increase with five billion invested is laughable.

As far as your (Lee) 500 million investment, you want a lot more don't you? 500 million won't even buy you a D-Ticket in Avatarland.

I'm not Lee, but I am in love with his wife, so I'll answer this ... for $500 million, he/you/me/everyone should expect more than one D-Ticket ... look at what the entire WWoHP cost. WDI's pricing is ridiculous whether the project turns out great (say RSRs) or not so (say EE or MS).

As far as quality, I'm not sure what you "felt" in 1990. You might get a similar feeling at a strip club in 2012.

I dunno ... how old are you? When did you first visit WDW? Ever been to DLR? Ever been away from the east coast of the USA?

 

[JustChillinBro]

I'm from the west coast. I'd list the countries (THE PLACES!) I have been to, but I don't want to turn this into a discussion of how I can get away from work for a long weekend to visit Cars Land. My boss would kill me!

I am honestly (somewhat) interested in exactly what you want Walt Disney World to be. You complain. You post 15,000 times. But what is it? And what would it cost?

And then the discussion of whether or not WDC even cares about your demographic is another argument entirely.

 

[HenryMystic]

Universal spent 500 million rebranding two rides and adding Forbidden Journey.

Try half that.

 

[Captain Chaos]

It's summer time... don't you just love it???

 

[WDW1974]

I'm from the west coast. I'd list the countries (THE PLACES!) I have been to, but I don't want to turn this into a discussion of how I can get away from work for a long weekend to visit Cars Land. My boss would kill me!

A job? Well, I'm impressed. Make sure to put two shots in my grande latte, please.
As to your boss, just do what the dude from Rhode Island did ... leave work and drive to DL, take a week not just the weekend, and don't call to work or to your family or anyone ... just be at your happy place! Oh, and then come back and ask strangers on a fan forum if you might have a problem (or multiple).

I am honestly (somewhat) interested in exactly what you want Walt Disney World to be. You complain. You post 15,000 times. But what is it? And what would it cost?

Hope you don't work the register 'cause your math is a bit off. I post about a third as much as you state (although it feels like more to be sure!)

What I want WDW to be is the best it can be ... the top theme park resort for immersive family themed entertainment as well as dining, retail and recreation. It worked for 25 years. Then, they decided to milk the udders until they bled and basically pi$$ on Walt's Legacy and his company's. They want a lower quality product at ever the higher price points. And they care about real estate development and hotel/timeshares, not theme parks. They are doing the minimum to keep them from literally falling into a hole.

I have no idea what it would cost to have standards again and to live up to them ... but I do know there's a huge cost in making a premium brand something less so.

And then the discussion of whether or not WDC even cares about your demographic is another argument entirely.

They don't. They raised my AP $75 this year, I think DVC's went up about $15. I guess they don't think I spent more in 31 years of being an APer than someone who spent $18,000 for DVC last year. They should keep better tabs on their 'whales' ... but they should be wary of thinking that fanbois with lower expectations is the way to go in 'replacing' guests like myself ... because that demo tends to have the attention span of a kitty and they can get bored very quickly and move on to something else.

TDO and Burbank believe that there's a never-ending supply of guests to replace people who become fed up or to simply replace people who go once and say 'that's OK, check it off the list, no need to go back.''

They're wrong.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Isn't this the old Walmart argument? Or McDonald's? Or Chevy?

People may like lower quality products, but that shouldn't be what Disney aims for.

Again, they are supposed to be a premium brand. They are priced accordingly (well, I can and have stayed at Ritz Carltons and Four Seasons for less than people often pay to stay at WDW moderate resorts, but let's not get into the mental makeup of always needing to be on property!) They are marketed as such. The company PR certainly wouldn't place them with any other company in the business?

So ... the fact people when fed ground chuck enjoy it because they don't realize they should be getting filet mignon doesn't hold much water with me.

But...there are people out there who really, truly, do prefer McDonald's over haute cuisine. Go stand at a Wendy's and offer the hungry folk a platter of wine-poached salmon in creamy truffle sauce instead.

Many guests really, truly do love TSMM and Soarin'. They do. With or without the dusty projection, regardless of TSMM being a glorified Wii game on office chairs.

For all my nagging about the MK being turned into an infantile, cartoonified toddler playground, I must not overlook one thing: a great many guests want it to be turned into exactly that. They love it. They want spinners and beer and celebrities.
If one loses sight of that, one might think Disney is stupid, mean, evil or stingy. (Well...it is.) But it is also often times simply responding to genuine guest demand, whether one abhors the simplicity of their taste or not. The dumbing down of WDW is greatly owing to the dumbed down demands of the guests entering the gates. WDW is being reshaped to their liking.

My hope is with a further increase of prices.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

[/quote] But yeah, after seeing those videos recently ... I'd say 1990 quality would be fine with me too. They could never do TDR quality.[/quote]
I know that you have said in the past that TDR quality coming to WDW is unlikely, whether from Disney or a new owner/operator. Is it a matter of cost, logistical problems, etc? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Also, once the new management team at Burbank is in place, do you think that they would focus on WDW?

 

[TalkingHead]

I think the next thing is Disney is removing ceilings because parts of them might fall on guests. Another poster told me that this has been gaining steam the past few days to justify all sorts of bad upkeep/management at WDW. It just isn't true.

So that's why there have been missing ceiling tiles in Small World for 5+ years? Makes perfect sense now!