News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

[msg7]

I'd expect them to do something similar to Disneyland's Space Mountain even though they now have to do 2 tracks. I'm 99% confident that if they decide to re-track the ride again, Vekoma would be the manufacturer.

 

[trainplane3]

At 350 mil+ they can't redesign a longer track?

Our insiders said expect a clone and that's it. A clone isn't taking something and making it longer. I'm not happy about a 100% clone either but I'm still glad there's a real addition to MK.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

It's why moving Space Mountain to Epcot makes some sense.

With the amount of rides you'd like to move to EPCOT, wouldn't it be easier to just move EPCOT to the MK?

 

[lazyboy97o]

True though this is . . . it doesn't take three years to figure this all out. It shouldn't add a year to construction.

Especially because they'd started sorting all that fun stuff out before the project was even announced to the public.

It shouldn't take Disney three years to build this ride in the Magic Kingdom.

Where did I say it takes three years? It’d be more like a year and it can overlap with a lot of site work. That then leaves about two years for vertical construction of the building itself.

Disney does not necessarily get that process started before the announcement.

Yes, it could and probably should be done a bit quicker. But it seems a lot of people really don’t understand the process that still must occur even with clones. Disney does make a lot of use of the fast-track project delivery method which means construction starts before design work is completed. A typical Disney project is nowhere near ready to start construction when it is officially approved and often shortly thereafter announced.

 

[Absimilliard]

That's very valuable info, thank you. Looks like my estimate range was pretty good and this is another low capacity E-ticket. I wonder if building from scratch they can add an 8th row to the trains?

If they keep the current track configuration, no. Each station position is the length of the current seven car train and the whole staging area (maintenance bay) was also designed for a seven car train.

Adding a car to a coaster train is not a simple process and 9 times out of 10 will cause you MAJOR issues. Think back to Space Mountain at Disneyland: adding the speakers in 1996 added weight and changed the physics of how the trains behaved, leading to the sudden 2003 closure. For those who were not around then: one morning in April 2003, Space Mountain was a "delayed opening" and they started distributing fast passes for the day for when it would reopen later. Unfortunately, it never opened and that was it for the WDI built 1977 Space Mountain. Reconstruction there took 27 months because the closure was so sudden the new track and supports not yet ready to be delivered.

DLP has two rides where changing train weights caused a large ripple effect. When they worked on Temple du Peril in 1999, they changed the trains from 4 passenger per car to 6 passenger per car. Due to the ride design loads, they had to keep the weight nearly the same and how do you do that when you add two humans, two large shoulder bars and their locking mechanism? They stripped down the new cars to its bare minimum and things like padding went out the window. The old trains had soft foam seats and many theming elements while the new train have guests sitting directly on the fiberglass shell and the only padding consist of two thin strips for the back and a small headrest. Sansei did fix that issue when they built Raging Spirits at Tokyo DisneySea. The ride supports and loads were designed for the six passenger cars and the end result is a much comfortable seat and beautiful trains.

Space Mountain at DLP for a while ran some trains with the original chassis and some trains with new chassis. The new chassis were so much heavier that they actually CAUGHT UP to the lighter trains and caused automatic e-stops. What did they do? The ziptied the last row on the new trains and in one case, stuck a pair of Mickey and Minnie plushes there so cast members would see the train and not load the back row. Once all trains were converted, the back row returned to service.

If I was Disney and Vekoma, I would design the WDW control system this way: the ride in Shanghai already detects that a train with a TAV (sit-down car) and warns the cast members. Now, say you designed the control system so that your two TAV train always go on the same side? In practice, this would mean that even if you have a slower load process because for example you have a larger guest or someone that need a transfer would grind things down to a halt on one side, but the other side would be moving normally and keep the line moving. This would minimize the impact on capacity and make it easier for the WDW cast members.

 

[RSoxNo1]

With the amount of rides you'd like to move to EPCOT, wouldn't it be easier to just move EPCOT to the MK?

They're already doing that, just with the wrong rides.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Where did I say it takes three years? It’d be more like a year and it can overlap with a lot of site work. That then leaves about two years for vertical construction of the building itself.

Disney does not necessarily get that process started before the announcement.

Yes, it could and probably should be done a bit quicker. But it seems a lot of people really don’t understand the process that still must occur even with clones. Disney does make a lot of use of the fast-track project delivery method which means construction starts before design work is completed. A typical Disney project is nowhere near ready to start construction when it is officially approved and often shortly thereafter announced.

I was not so much suggesting you said that it would take three years as much as I was trying to make a general comment that this ride should not be taking so long to get into the park. Sorry if it came off as accusatory.

Disney has enough experience and money to outwork all of the problems that are causing this attraction to open 3 years after announcement. There’s simply no way to justify it beyond their being unwilling to do so. If we look at what this company used to be able to do in that much time it’s ridiculous that they let this happen now when they have so much more resource to work with.

For a clone, no less. As you said, that doesn’t solve everything - but it solves a LOT.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I was not so much suggesting you said that it would take three years as much as I was trying to make a general comment that this ride should not be taking so long to get into the park. Sorry if it came off as accusatory.

Disney has enough experience and money to outwork all of the problems that are causing this attraction to open 3 years after announcement. There’s simply no way to justify it beyond their being unwilling to do so. If we look at what this company used to be able to do in that much time it’s ridiculous that they let this happen now when they have so much more resource to work with.

For a clone, no less. As you said, that doesn’t solve everything - but it solves a LOT.

Beginning of design to end of construction, what seems like a reasonable time frame?

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Beginning of design to end of construction, what seems like a reasonable time frame?

Announced in July 2017?

It should be opening Spring 2019.

22 months, give or take. Right now they’re planned at 36 or so. For a ride that already exists and doesn’t break any meaningful technological ground, shiny though it is.

And if they had real sense they would get some work done before announcing it.

I’m excited to ride it, to be clear. I’m not hating on the ride, but it shouldn’t take as long as it’s going to.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Announced in July 2017?

It should be opening Spring 2019.

22 months, give or take. Right now they’re planned at 36 or so. For a ride that already exists and doesn’t break any meaningful technological ground, shiny though it is.

And if they had real sense they would get some work done before announcing it.

I’m excited to ride it, to be clear. I’m not hating on the ride, but it shouldn’t take as long as it’s going to.

22 months for design and construction is a very tight timeframe for any project. That’s more in line with bare coasters, which can often be 18 - 24 months.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

22 months for design and construction is a very tight timeframe for any project. That’s more in line with bare coasters, which can often be 18 - 24 months.

Tight, but not impossible. I wouldn’t wish it on them if they’d never built TRON before, but they have. Sorting out modifications for MK specs should take 6-8 months and then they should build the frickin’ thing. This new idea of spreading costs over fiscal years is ridiculous for a company this size. Just put it up and be done.

That Epcot was built in 3 years bears repeating, but that they built it alongside the Tokyo Disneyland and Disneyland New Fantasyland Projects doesn’t get enough credit. Maybe it takes other companies 18-24 months for a bare coaster, but there isn’t another one that has the resources of Disney. Add to that the fact that the park and resort are begging for capacity, they should be pushing into overdrive rather than sitting back and spreading out costs. They can afford it like no other.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

They did. They had the luxury of a single track, no duel central lifts, no double height load/unload, no ground level entry / exit corridors down the central spine, no post show and no WEDway.

And it still took two years.

You know I more than most would love it to happen. We know they have a plan how to do it. But here’s an example of the confined space, before it began to be confined:

View attachment 263861

Now imagine having to do it working backwards from no room to some room to move.

That's crazy. It would almost be like building a new ride entirely.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Tight, but not impossible. I wouldn’t wish it on them if they’d never built TRON before, but they have. Sorting out modifications for MK specs should take 6-8 months and then they should build the frickin’ thing. This new idea of spreading costs over fiscal years is ridiculous for a company this size. Just put it up and be done.

That Epcot was built in 3 years bears repeating, but that they built it alongside the Tokyo Disneyland and Disneyland New Fantasyland Projects doesn’t get enough credit. Maybe it takes other companies 18-24 months for a bare coaster, but there isn’t another one that has the resources of Disney. Add to that the fact that the park and resort are begging for capacity, they should be pushing into overdrive rather than sitting back and spreading out costs. They can afford it like no other.

EPCOT Center was built in three years following how many years of design beforehand? That’s compared to 3 ½ to 4 years for design and construction.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

EPCOT Center was built in three years following how many years of design beforehand? That’s compared to 3 ½ to 4 years for design and construction.

TRON is already designed too. And tested. We’ve already been told there aren’t any aesthetic changes being made for the Magic Kingdom, any changes are for behind the scenes purposes to work within the MK infrastructure. So offering that it might even take half a year to sort that out, it shouldn’t take 2.5 years to build this thing. It’s not new territory. The timeline for this ride is crazy.

 

[TrojanUSC]

If I was Disney and Vekoma, I would design the WDW control system this way: the ride in Shanghai already detects that a train with a TAV (sit-down car) and warns the cast members. Now, say you designed the control system so that your two TAV train always go on the same side? In practice, this would mean that even if you have a slower load process because for example you have a larger guest or someone that need a transfer would grind things down to a halt on one side, but the other side would be moving normally and keep the line moving. This would minimize the impact on capacity and make it easier for the WDW cast members.

Dinosaur is basically designed this way. They have two load/unload stations. This allows them to have both open when it's busy to maximize capacity. Additionally, wheelchair guests or guests who need special assistance are ALWAYS sent to the "North Side" (to the left when you return to the station from the ride), so they can use the elevator. This also allows for the south side to continue operating. There's an operator control button to "north side" any vehicle.

Space Mountain at WDW has a problem with slow guests at unload causing cascade stops (i.e. the trains back up at unload and the entire ride e-stops because there's nowhere for any additional incoming trains to go). Occasionally guests get "stored," where they're sent to the maintenance bay just behind the unload wall so they can have more time to disembark.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

They're already doing that, just with the wrong rides.

True dat.

Soon the MK and EPCOT will be indistinguishable.

 

[Cameron1529]

Tight, but not impossible. I wouldn’t wish it on them if they’d never built TRON before, but they have. Sorting out modifications for MK specs should take 6-8 months and then they should build the frickin’ thing. This new idea of spreading costs over fiscal years is ridiculous for a company this size. Just put it up and be done.

That Epcot was built in 3 years bears repeating, but that they built it alongside the Tokyo Disneyland and Disneyland New Fantasyland Projects doesn’t get enough credit. Maybe it takes other companies 18-24 months for a bare coaster, but there isn’t another one that has the resources of Disney. Add to that the fact that the park and resort are begging for capacity, they should be pushing into overdrive rather than sitting back and spreading out costs. They can afford it like no other.

Alot of different articles etc I have read state it won't be finished until well into 2021. It will most definitely be interesting to see how long it takes for actual construction to begin.

 

[marni1971]

Alot of different articles etc I have read state it won't be finished until well into 2021. It will most definitely be interesting to see how long it takes for actual construction to begin.

Tron is ETA spring-summer 2021.

 

[lazyboy97o]

TRON is already designed too. And tested. We’ve already been told there aren’t any aesthetic changes being made for the Magic Kingdom, any changes are for behind the scenes purposes to work within the MK infrastructure. So offering that it might even take half a year to sort that out, it shouldn’t take 2.5 years to build this thing. It’s not new territory. The timeline for this ride is crazy.

It is not fully designed and that is what I have been trying to explain. Knowing where walls will go and what it will look like is only part of what is needed to build.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

It is not fully designed and that is what I have been trying to explain. Knowing where walls will go and what it will look like is only part of what is needed to build.

Right . . . and if you read my post again you’ll see that I said that too. It’s quoted in your post. But what is left to design should take a couple months max. They’re not reinventing the wheel here, Disney has professionals whos entire job is to know how to do this. So many people can only do so much work so fast, but the phase of design you’re referring to isn’t massive.

TRON may not be fully designed for Magic Kingdom, but starting from what they have in Shanghai puts it 85 percent of the way there at least. Adapting plans is SO much less work than starting from scratch, even if does still take some work. It’s not like they’ve never built a clone before.