The railroad only serves to inure people to the problems of fossil fuels and global warming.
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News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
The railroad only serves to inure people to the problems of fossil fuels and global warming.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
26 experiences in a 12 hour day is over 2 experiences per guest per hour. Beyond the top end of industry standards on a peak week. This would mean the park has enough capacity that 15 minute lines are the norm on the busiest days. There would be no crowding if the parks had this sort of capacity.
Jon81uk
Well-Known Member
I really wanted to reply to this, but noticed MisterPenguin did it so well, The MK really does not need any more E tickets. They do not need to attract any new guests to the Magic Kingdom. They need to get people to spend full days at the other parks to spread crowds out. Epcot is the park that needs the E tickets. MK needs the B, C and D tickets, the theatre behind main street, the Muppets history show, the small things that spread existing crowds out, not the big ones that make people book another trip.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
Not to mention just travel time between this and that... Various small things that can slow you down for a few minutes here and there... Having to INSTANTLY grab new FP experiences the second it opened back up for you... Actually having experiences to pick from basically all day long during a July 4th week day...
I'd venture to say no standby line is 15 minutes. Except maybe CoP. He already said Small World was 20 standby (which sounds awfully low for July 4th week as well).
So... Yeah.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
So, I'm extremely biased here (nice precursor huh?) but TRON is here, its not going anywhere we understand its limitations and we understand that from a capacity standpoint it doesn't help MK at all, it might actually hurt it.
With that said, I am really looking forward to another thrill ride at MK, I am actually not much of a coaster fan but between the lighting package, TRON soundtrack and the ride vehicle itself, I am pretty excited about being immersed in "the grid". I am a huge TON fan in general hence my bias. We can't do anything to reverse their decision, so we might as well enjoy a pretty awesome thrill ride, come 2021.
Thanks for shining some positivity in here!
Yes, we do.
Marc Davis Fan
Well-Known Member
I guess it depends what we mean by "need."
If the only goal were to improve crowd flow, then obviously MK doesn't need things that would draw more people in. In fact, to provide a silly hypothetical: if MK increased its capacity by adding attractions that were poor-quality (to ensure they didn't increase its attendance), that would be optimal purely from a crowd flow perspective.
However, if one of the goals is also to maintain Disney's perceived quality, then adding a major E ticket to MK would indeed be valuable (again because MK represents Disney to so many visitors, especially first-time visitors).
But, point taken that MK has a bigger crowding issue than the other parks, which should be taken into account. I suppose, then, it would be truly optimal (considering both goals) to have an additional/expanded land and C/D tickets along with any added E ticket.
TYOTimer
Well-Known Member
If only Disney could build at Universal’s speed, and not the speed of the Sloth from Zootopia, and they could have Tron open “soon”
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Maybe he’s referring to the different shades of gray coloring of the external paneling. We didn’t see that coming!
Jon81uk
Well-Known Member
Disney aren't always slower at building, just different at announcing. Disney say we are going to build Tron coaster, then do nothing for months. Universal say nothing, we can see the coaster being built but no announcement until almost ready to open, making it look quicker even if the actual constriction time is comparable.
That's gonna happen every time they breach the old park boundaries with new attractions...
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again, what the Magic Kingdom needs right now is for the other three parks to get their act together and start pulling their own weight on the next level.
This isn't a response to your post directly, Penguin, this is more building off of your point.
Right now on the MDE App, with current attraction and show closures accounted for, The Magic Kingdom lists the wait times of 21 attractions in that park. EPCOT lists 9. DHS 10. Animal Kingdom 8.
The Magic Kingdom will have to add new attractions sooner or later - that is natural in the lifespan of a successful theme park. Without that guests will feel the park grow stagnant. But adding attractions to MK compounds its issues - demand for the park grows as capacity is added. On top of that The Magic Kingdom already has WAY more things to do than the other three parks.
So what balances the equation? Try to build out the MK to meet its capacity demands? It's a catch 22, and it bears out to MK one day having 100 attractions while the other three parks hover at 20 or so. That doesn't work. Stop building attractions at MK until other parks naturally catch up? Guests will smell the park stagnating - maybe fewer will show up at MK, but they'll also spend less time at WDW overall. Disney still wants those guests on property spending money, there are just too many of them at MK.
The real answer is aggressive expansion to EPCOT, DHS, and Animal Kingdom. Get the attraction count of those parks in the ballpark of MK - make them as appealing to visit as MK (or more, since MK has the nostalgia x-factor that helps keep interest high). For every attraction you build at MK, build 3 more at non-MK parks. Make them high quality. Build until the other parks outdraw MK.
Only then will you once again be able to build organically at the Magic Kingdom. Since 1995-ish the Artistic needs of the park have taken a backseat to its operational needs. It certainly doesn't seem to have damaged business, but it's damaged the soul of the MK. Imagine a WDW where each park is as dense with rich experiences as MK, so self-sufficient that any of them could fairly be considered the "main draw" park.
The perception of MK as the Holy Grail has gone on too long, is more trouble than it's worth, and is entirely self-perpetuated by the company. An Animal Kingdom with 21 solid attractions running the gamut from A to E-Tickets could easily draw as many people as MK. I don't know why they continue to insist on testing to see when the MK's back will break from carrying the resort.
Though I don't expect this moment in history to be the point where they change course.
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CastAStone
5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
What Magic Kingdom needs to fix its capacity problems is for a 3rd castle park to be built in the US, ideally somewhere that would effectively siphon off East Coasters or Midwesterners. THAT’s how you fix it.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
Date was June 30th 2019. I had photo pass so that should help me piece together my schedule that day...
there were 2 adults no kids.
Standby 1: Park open at 9:00am, we went straight to Jungle cruise. (basically no wait due to rope drop)
Standby 2: Selfie on Aladdin is timed at 9:28am.(basically no wait due to rope drop)
Standby 3: Pirates photo pass 9:43(short wait still early)
Breakfast selfie 10:04 at sleepy Hollow refresments
FP1 :BTTM RR FP expired at 10:30am, no pics from that
FP2: Splash mountain photopass has us dropping at 10:41am
Standby 4:Small world sefie at 11:19 am (guessing short wait due to lunch time?)
FP3: 7D photopass at 11:40am
FP4: WTP was before lunch (no picture)
Leaving BOG selfie at 12:47pm (reservation was at 12:10)
FP5: HM Photo pass at 1:03pm
FP6: Photo outside LM with magical moment Sebastian 1:19pm (rode after pic)
FP7: Teacups selfie 1:51PM
FP8: I know we went on Pan (no photo) right before waiting for parade
Pic of us on Mainstreet in front of castle (2:33PM)
Parade 1: Photo pass pic of us on Mainstreet waiting for Parade 3:06PM
FP9: Buzz photo pass 3:43PM
Standby 5: COP (no photo so no exact time, also this never has a wait)
FP10: Meeting Ariel photo pass at 4:18PM
Standby 6: Met Goofy at 4:41PM, Doland at 4:42PM (Same line)
FP11: Dumbo selfie at 4:52pm
FP12: Meeting Rapunzel at 5:07PM, Tiana at 5:09PM (one line)
FP13: Has us meeting Mickey and Minnie (they were together for his birthday) 6:37PM
FP14: Has us meeting Tinkerbell at 6:48PM (Hated the automatic camera instead of a photographer)
Have some pics in front of train station at 6:56PM
Dinner was at Columbia harbor house (no pictures, but i was pretty disappointed after reading the online hype)
FP15: WTP was in here, no picture evidence
FP16: Buzz photopass at 8:00PM
Last picture I have is of us outside the castle waiting for HEA at 9:01 (was slightly delayed due to rain)
Looks like I was incorrect about 1 thing, we didn't meet pluto and daisy (thought we had, but there are no pics so it must have been another trip). It is extremely easy to get an "instant FP+" for most rides if you just keep refreshing the app between the two nearest times. Did not cheat the system by using other peoples bands, just were refreshing a lot while waiting in the short FP+ line (always had our next FP before actually riding the ride, you can start once you tap in the first one). It's up to you whether or not you believe this timeline, but it is what happened. I would not be able to have a day like this without FP+... so going back to the OG argument, yes FP+ can be a HUGE advantage if you use it to it's full extent.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
I believe you but MM's birthday??????
FerretAfros
Well-Known Member
While MK has always had a heavier balance of attractions than the other parks, the introduction of MDE has only heightened the disparity. Instead of guests experiencing a variety of experiences with different formats throughout the day, the MDE and FP+ format tends to highlight things with traditional linear queues. Attractions where guests are self-paced or served in large batches tend to be overlooked more easily, while smaller-scale diversions like spinners and meet & greets are artificially elevated to must-do status.
The high-capacity, often theater-based, roster of attractions at Epcot is particularly impacted by this. Worthwhile attractions like the American Adventure, Universe of Energy, CircleVisions, and Gran Fiesta Tour are all left off of the FP+ list, which infrequent visitors tend to use as shorthand for the must-do attractions in a given park. Smaller exhibits and diversions tend to be overlooked entirely, because they just don't fit the format that the app is designed for and there's no queue time to report. Ironically, because the park was designed to handle large crowds efficiently from the very beginning, MDE makes it more difficult for the park to appear to have a full day's worth of attractions (though the lack of investment in the park in recent years isn't doing them any favors either).
DAK also suffers from this to a degree, with MDE making it all too easy to overlook the wonderful walking trails and smaller animal exhibits, while highlighting lackluster experiences like Triceratops Spin. The Studios managed the MDE transition surprisingly gracefully for a park that is so entertainment-heavy, but still relies on blocking off huge sections of seating at non-capacity shows to justify the existence of FP+ (though all the additions to the park in the last couple years may help balance the load, depending if/how FP continues at that park).
I fully agree that all the parks need more to do, but a large part of the current stress on the system is rooted in how it's currently operating. Instead of spreading crowds to a variety of experiences throughout the parks as they were originally intended, they're concentrated into a handful of rides with traditional queues. While this format works (mostly) well at MK, the variety of attractions at the other parks were simply never going to work for that kind of operation.
It's kind of like repurposing a leaf blower engine for a motorbike: sure it can get the job done, but that's not really what it was ever intended for, and isn't going to be nearly as good as something designed with that end use in mind. The sooner we can get away from the mindset that the four parks are the same and use the same operational parameters, the better the guest experience will be at each of them.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
You make some good points - I do agree that in addition to the famous litany of reasons the MDE App and Fastpass+ failing guests the app also fails on these levels, especially in trying to offer a useful Map of any of the parks.
If you didn't know there were attractions other than Frozen and Gran Fiesta in World Showcase, would this Map give you any idea? Or does it paint the picture of World Showcase as a "wasteland devoid of rides" to any guest who doesn't know what it actually offers?:
The idea that Figment gets higher play from this thing than The American Adventure is pretty tragic.
Compare that to this - potentially a little overwhelming, but all the info you need to get through your day, from rides to shows to shops to restaurants, is laid out there and captures the fullness of what the park actually offers:
Animal Kingdom is similar - look how far you have to zoom in to the map before the words "Maharajah Jungle Trek" appear, and then how much further you have to zoom before they become legible. If this is your first time in the park, what are the odds you're gonna find that? And you're right that even then you might question the value of that experience, because how good can it be if it's so hidden?
It's impressive that the MDE project was able to fail so spectacularly on so many levels. It hurts to think what we could have gotten if they'd just spent that money investing in, like, attractions.
peter11435
Well-Known Member
The app really should default to the “attractions” filter instead of the “wait times” filter.