News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

[CastAStone]

What Magic Kingdom needs to fix its capacity problems is for a 3rd castle park to be built in the US, ideally somewhere that would effectively siphon off East Coasters or Midwesterners. THAT’s how you fix it.

 

[J4546]

i say build a park in texas. and also buy up those cotton farms in texas too and make all your clothing in america

 

[Purduevian]

So in one day, during July 4th week, you did 16 things via FP+, and then 8 more things while waiting in standby lines (of which Small World was 20 minutes), watch a parade, plus at least one meal? Pardon me if I absolutely don't believe you. 26 activities in a day during July 4th week, 8 in standby, a parade, and at least one meal.

A word of advice... When you're going to bend the truth to try to back up a point you're trying to make, you might not want to go Whole Hog.

The only way this MIGHT be remotely possible is if you have a big group of people, all of which are booked for different FP attractions, and basically none of which plan on riding anything or using those FP's themselves and you used their band or card or whatever they had and used up all their rides instead of them. Which is hardly about the FP system, and more about the large group of people feeding you their rider slots and why they would bother to pay a ton of money to be at a crowded Disney park in the dead of summer and not ride anything.

Not to mention just travel time between this and that... Various small things that can slow you down for a few minutes here and there... Having to INSTANTLY grab new FP experiences the second it opened back up for you... Actually having experiences to pick from basically all day long during a July 4th week day...

I'd venture to say no standby line is 15 minutes. Except maybe CoP. He already said Small World was 20 standby (which sounds awfully low for July 4th week as well).

So... Yeah.

Date was June 30th 2019. I had photo pass so that should help me piece together my schedule that day...

there were 2 adults no kids.
Standby 1: Park open at 9:00am, we went straight to Jungle cruise. (basically no wait due to rope drop)
Standby 2: Selfie on Aladdin is timed at 9:28am.(basically no wait due to rope drop)
Standby 3: Pirates photo pass 9:43(short wait still early)
Breakfast selfie 10:04 at sleepy Hollow refresments
FP1 :BTTM RR FP expired at 10:30am, no pics from that
FP2: Splash mountain photopass has us dropping at 10:41am
Standby 4:Small world sefie at 11:19 am (guessing short wait due to lunch time?)
FP3: 7D photopass at 11:40am
FP4: WTP was before lunch (no picture)
Leaving BOG selfie at 12:47pm (reservation was at 12:10)
FP5: HM Photo pass at 1:03pm
FP6: Photo outside LM with magical moment Sebastian 1:19pm (rode after pic)
FP7: Teacups selfie 1:51PM
FP8: I know we went on Pan (no photo) right before waiting for parade
Pic of us on Mainstreet in front of castle (2:33PM)
Parade 1: Photo pass pic of us on Mainstreet waiting for Parade 3:06PM
FP9: Buzz photo pass 3:43PM
Standby 5: COP (no photo so no exact time, also this never has a wait)
FP10: Meeting Ariel photo pass at 4:18PM
Standby 6: Met Goofy at 4:41PM, Doland at 4:42PM (Same line)
FP11: Dumbo selfie at 4:52pm
FP12: Meeting Rapunzel at 5:07PM, Tiana at 5:09PM (one line)
FP13: Has us meeting Mickey and Minnie (they were together for his birthday) 6:37PM
FP14: Has us meeting Tinkerbell at 6:48PM (Hated the automatic camera instead of a photographer)
Have some pics in front of train station at 6:56PM
Dinner was at Columbia harbor house (no pictures, but i was pretty disappointed after reading the online hype)
FP15: WTP was in here, no picture evidence
FP16: Buzz photopass at 8:00PM
Last picture I have is of us outside the castle waiting for HEA at 9:01 (was slightly delayed due to rain)

Looks like I was incorrect about 1 thing, we didn't meet pluto and daisy (thought we had, but there are no pics so it must have been another trip). It is extremely easy to get an "instant FP+" for most rides if you just keep refreshing the app between the two nearest times. Did not cheat the system by using other peoples bands, just were refreshing a lot while waiting in the short FP+ line (always had our next FP before actually riding the ride, you can start once you tap in the first one). It's up to you whether or not you believe this timeline, but it is what happened. I would not be able to have a day like this without FP+... so going back to the OG argument, yes FP+ can be a HUGE advantage if you use it to it's full extent.

 

[JoeCamel]

Date was June 30th 2019. I had photo pass so that should help me piece together my schedule that day...


FP13: Has us meeting Mickey and Minnie (they were together for his birthday) 6:37PM
FP14: Has us meeting Tinkerbell at 6:48PM (Hated the automatic camera instead of a photographer)
Have some pics in front of train station at 6:56PM
Dinner was at Columbia harbor house (no pictures, but i was pretty disappointed after reading the online hype)
FP15: WTP was in here, no picture evidence
FP16: Buzz photopass at 8:00PM
Last picture I have is of us outside the castle waiting for HEA at 9:01 (was slightly delayed due to rain)

Looks like I was incorrect about 1 thing, we didn't meet pluto and daisy (thought we had, but there are no pics so it must have been another trip). It is extremely easy to get an "instant FP+" for most rides if you just keep refreshing the app between the two nearest times. Did not cheat the system by using other peoples bands, just were refreshing a lot while waiting in the short FP+ line (always had our next FP before actually riding the ride, you can start once you tap in the first one). It's up to you whether or not you believe this timeline, but it is what happened. I would not be able to have a day like this without FP+... so going back to the OG argument, yes FP+ can be a HUGE advantage if you use it to it's full extent.

I believe you but MM's birthday??????

 

[FerretAfros]

Right now on the MDE App, with current attraction and show closures accounted for, The Magic Kingdom lists the wait times of 21 attractions in that park. EPCOT lists 9. DHS 10. Animal Kingdom 8.

While MK has always had a heavier balance of attractions than the other parks, the introduction of MDE has only heightened the disparity. Instead of guests experiencing a variety of experiences with different formats throughout the day, the MDE and FP+ format tends to highlight things with traditional linear queues. Attractions where guests are self-paced or served in large batches tend to be overlooked more easily, while smaller-scale diversions like spinners and meet & greets are artificially elevated to must-do status.

The high-capacity, often theater-based, roster of attractions at Epcot is particularly impacted by this. Worthwhile attractions like the American Adventure, Universe of Energy, CircleVisions, and Gran Fiesta Tour are all left off of the FP+ list, which infrequent visitors tend to use as shorthand for the must-do attractions in a given park. Smaller exhibits and diversions tend to be overlooked entirely, because they just don't fit the format that the app is designed for and there's no queue time to report. Ironically, because the park was designed to handle large crowds efficiently from the very beginning, MDE makes it more difficult for the park to appear to have a full day's worth of attractions (though the lack of investment in the park in recent years isn't doing them any favors either).

DAK also suffers from this to a degree, with MDE making it all too easy to overlook the wonderful walking trails and smaller animal exhibits, while highlighting lackluster experiences like Triceratops Spin. The Studios managed the MDE transition surprisingly gracefully for a park that is so entertainment-heavy, but still relies on blocking off huge sections of seating at non-capacity shows to justify the existence of FP+ (though all the additions to the park in the last couple years may help balance the load, depending if/how FP continues at that park).

I fully agree that all the parks need more to do, but a large part of the current stress on the system is rooted in how it's currently operating. Instead of spreading crowds to a variety of experiences throughout the parks as they were originally intended, they're concentrated into a handful of rides with traditional queues. While this format works (mostly) well at MK, the variety of attractions at the other parks were simply never going to work for that kind of operation.

It's kind of like repurposing a leaf blower engine for a motorbike: sure it can get the job done, but that's not really what it was ever intended for, and isn't going to be nearly as good as something designed with that end use in mind. The sooner we can get away from the mindset that the four parks are the same and use the same operational parameters, the better the guest experience will be at each of them.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

While MK has always had a heavier balance of attractions than the other parks, the introduction of MDE has only heightened the disparity. Instead of guests experiencing a variety of experiences with different formats throughout the day, the MDE and FP+ format tends to highlight things with traditional linear queues. Attractions where guests are self-paced or served in large batches tend to be overlooked more easily, while smaller-scale diversions like spinners and meet & greets are artificially elevated to must-do status.

The high-capacity, often theater-based, roster of attractions at Epcot is particularly impacted by this. Worthwhile attractions like the American Adventure, Universe of Energy, CircleVisions, and Gran Fiesta Tour are all left off of the FP+ list, which infrequent visitors tend to use as shorthand for the must-do attractions in a given park. Smaller exhibits and diversions tend to be overlooked entirely, because they just don't fit the format that the app is designed for and there's no queue time to report. Ironically, because the park was designed to handle large crowds efficiently from the very beginning, MDE makes it more difficult for the park to appear to have a full day's worth of attractions (though the lack of investment in the park in recent years isn't doing them any favors either).

DAK also suffers from this to a degree, with MDE making it all too easy to overlook the wonderful walking trails and smaller animal exhibits, while highlighting lackluster experiences like Triceratops Spin. The Studios managed the MDE transition surprisingly gracefully for a park that is so entertainment-heavy, but still relies on blocking off huge sections of seating at non-capacity shows to justify the existence of FP+ (though all the additions to the park in the last couple years may help balance the load, depending if/how FP continues at that park).

I fully agree that all the parks need more to do, but a large part of the current stress on the system is rooted in how it's currently operating. Instead of spreading crowds to a variety of experiences throughout the parks as they were originally intended, they're concentrated into a handful of rides with traditional queues. While this format works (mostly) well at MK, the variety of attractions at the other parks were simply never going to work for that kind of operation.

It's kind of like repurposing a leaf blower engine for a motorbike: sure it can get the job done, but that's not really what it was ever intended for, and isn't going to be nearly as good as something designed with that end use in mind. The sooner we can get away from the mindset that the four parks are the same and use the same operational parameters, the better the guest experience will be at each of them.

You make some good points - I do agree that in addition to the famous litany of reasons the MDE App and Fastpass+ failing guests the app also fails on these levels, especially in trying to offer a useful Map of any of the parks.

If you didn't know there were attractions other than Frozen and Gran Fiesta in World Showcase, would this Map give you any idea? Or does it paint the picture of World Showcase as a "wasteland devoid of rides" to any guest who doesn't know what it actually offers?:

The idea that Figment gets higher play from this thing than The American Adventure is pretty tragic.

Compare that to this - potentially a little overwhelming, but all the info you need to get through your day, from rides to shows to shops to restaurants, is laid out there and captures the fullness of what the park actually offers:

Animal Kingdom is similar - look how far you have to zoom in to the map before the words "Maharajah Jungle Trek" appear, and then how much further you have to zoom before they become legible. If this is your first time in the park, what are the odds you're gonna find that? And you're right that even then you might question the value of that experience, because how good can it be if it's so hidden?

It's impressive that the MDE project was able to fail so spectacularly on so many levels. It hurts to think what we could have gotten if they'd just spent that money investing in, like, attractions.

 

[peter11435]

You make some good points - I do agree that in addition to the famous litany of reasons the MDE App and Fastpass+ failing guests the app also fails on these levels, especially in trying to offer a useful Map of any of the parks.

If you didn't know there were attractions other than Frozen and Gran Fiesta in World Showcase, would this Map give you any idea? Or does it paint the picture of World Showcase as a "wasteland devoid of rides" to any guest who doesn't know what it actually offers?:

View attachment 490967

The idea that Figment gets higher play from this thing than The American Adventure is pretty tragic.

Compare that to this - potentially a little overwhelming, but all the info you need to get through your day, from rides to shows to shops to restaurants, is laid out there and captures the fullness of what the park actually offers:

View attachment 490968

Animal Kingdom is similar - look how far you have to zoom in to the map before the words "Maharajah Jungle Trek" appear, and then how much further you have to zoom before they become legible. If this is your first time in the park, what are the odds you're gonna find that? And you're right that even then you might question the value of that experience, because how good can it be if it's so hidden?

It's impressive that the MDE project was able to fail so spectacularly on so many levels. It hurts to think what we could have gotten if they'd just spent that money investing in, like, attractions.

The app really should default to the “attractions” filter instead of the “wait times” filter.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The app really should default to the “attractions” filter instead of the “wait times” filter.

Yeah, even in the MK, when you look at the list of attractions that's filtered by wait times, it's not going to show Tiki Room, TTA, CoP, Treehouse, CBJ, TSI, Pirate Adventure, HoP.

 

[CastAStone]

Yeah, even in the MK, when you look at the list of attractions that's filtered by wait times, it's not going to show Tiki Room, TTA, CoP, Treehouse, CBJ, TSI, Pirate Adventure, HoP.

It usually shows TTA on wait time filter but it’s currently offline.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It usually shows TTA on wait time filter but it’s currently offline.

Oh, yeah, I was probably thinking about TTA not being on FP+.

 

[Purduevian]

I believe you but MM's birthday??????

They met together for about a year I think for Mickey's 90th. They were on mainstreet. Minnie's normal spot in the silly side show had pluto in front of all the poodles instead. Wasn't a one day only thing, but was super cool!

 

[WEDway Inc & Company LLC]

Single rider line on Tron?

 

[JoeCamel]

They met together for about a year I think for Mickey's 90th. They were on mainstreet. Minnie's normal spot in the silly side show had pluto in front of all the poodles instead. Wasn't a one day only thing, but was super cool!

OK, I get it, milking them for all they could get

 

[doctornick]

Single rider line on Tron?

Anything is possible, but it has less value on rides with 2 person rows. They can fill all seats simply by grouping people by even or odd groups like in 7DMT. Of course that hasn’t stopped it from happening before at WDW.

It would make the most sense to do single rider on rides with 3 or 4 people rows like Space Mtn or Dinosaur.

 

[TYOTimer]

Anything is possible, but it has less value on rides with 2 person rows. They can fill all seats simply by grouping people by even or odd groups like in 7DMT. Of course that hasn’t stopped it from happening before at WDW.

It would make the most sense to do single rider on rides with 3 or 4 people rows like Space Mtn or Dinosaur.

Space Mountain “technically” has one, but you just have to tell the CM at the split you’re a single rider and they put you in the line

 

[SilentWindODoom]

What is unknown?

We know what it will look like...

We don't know the planned plantings unless Martin's pessimism is based on seeing the plans for this rather than past experience.

Exactly. The Magic Kingdom is - whether justified or not - viewed as WDW's flagship/representative park. If Disney wants to show the world that it's still the "crème de la crème" of the theme park world, their first priority should be a RotR-level "E+ ticket" at The Magic Kingdom.

It's been kind of mentioned elsewhere, but with Wonders of Life being a shell and so much of the World Showcase being empty in Epcot and the Studios and Animal Kingdom together have about the same amount of attractions that aren't walkthroughs/easily missable exhibits combined as Magic Kingdom. Fantasyland has about the same number of attractions that aren't just Meet and Greets as the Studios. The other parks need more.

The app really should default to the “attractions” filter instead of the “wait times” filter.

Why don't they just the time until the next show in there? Do the people behind the scenes find that too complex to keep up on? Are the show times for things like the Tiki Room regular enough that you can extrapolate a day's worth of show times, or does it fluctuate depending on how long it takes people to leave/settle in?

 

[lazyboy97o]

We don't know the planned plantings unless Martin's pessimism is based on seeing the plans for this rather than past experience.

“The physician can bury his mistakes,—but the architect can only advise his client to plant vines.”
-Frank Lloyd Wright

Plopping down a bunch of extra trees and bushes is not good design. Even then, that can only do so much and there will be no berm.

 

[peter11435]

Why don't they just the time until the next show in there? Do the people behind the scenes find that too complex to keep up on? Are the show times for things like the Tiki Room regular enough that you can extrapolate a day's worth of show times, or does it fluctuate depending on how long it takes people to leave/settle in?

This would work for things like festival of the lion king and American adventure that run at set show times, but it might be confusing for the average guests. If the next show was in 45 and the app said 45 in the little box most guests would get the wrong idea.

Attractions like the Tiki Room fluctuate way too much for that to work.

 

[cheezbat]

What Magic Kingdom needs to fix its capacity problems is for a 3rd castle park to be built in the US, ideally somewhere that would effectively siphon off East Coasters or Midwesterners. THAT’s how you fix it.

I know exactly where to build it....in the western corner of Walt Disney World! Build a second castle park in the resort with many of the same attractions and that’ll siphon off guests from the original MK!

 

[CastAStone]

I know exactly where to build it....in the western corner of Walt Disney World! Build a second castle park in the resort with many of the same attractions and that’ll siphon off guests from the original MK!

Escape the swamp!!! Build it near Toronto.