News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Maeryk said:
Well, it IS the competition down the road's current ad campaign.. "when they are ready for a big boy vacation" or whatever.

I'm far from being a kid, and still find things to enjoy about Disney, every trip, and even though I enjoy thrill rides, I don't need them to be the biggest, fastest, or most intense to enjoy my vacation.

There really is a belief in people who have never been that it's just for kids though.. one I, like you, try to dissuade every time I run across it. The commercials on TV do tend to paint it as a "family park" which in common shorthand means "with kids to small to ride roller coasters", but it's more like the WHOLE family, from the wee bab to Grandma and Grandpa.
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Yep. It became a vast misconception somewhere along the way that the Magic Kingdom is "for kids only" and it doesn't help that "the decision makers" seemed to embrace that mantra for a long time, gearing things towards toddlers. It'd be nice if the balance was better amongst all four parks. Epcot comes close but it's a cohesive mess. AK still needs a few more indoor dark rides or boat attractions. And it remains sounding silly but DHS still needs far more than it's currently getting (just stating the obvious I know you know this all already, lol).

I'm wondering at what point did it turn into Toddler Kingdom? Maybe ripping out Toad for Pooh? (And I like Winnie the Pooh but heaven forbid they expand, not like they had a lagoon sitting unused at the time) Ripping out Alien (which would likely thrive at, say, DHS or Universal). When did it become "not ok" (to some, of course, not all of us) to have a ride like Alien Encounter in the park? (Which I guess technically falls under "not for the WHOLE family" but still ...)

Also not sure when "family" became "for kids only" :joyfull: (kind of similar to how many discount Slinky Dog, or "family" coaster as a "kid coaster"; sorry not every coaster can be a thrilling "i'm going to die" experience ...)

"BUT MY FOUR YEAR OLD LIKES IT" is not a reason you should base park building and entertainment decisions off of. No reason each park can't have a vast variety of experiences for EVERYONE. And since everyone likes to quote poor dead Walt Disney, it's "what he wanted" ;) and "if you aim for kids ..."

I don't like that some attractions aren't geared towards me but I also understand not everything *will* be. It'd be nice if the Disney Mom Squad understood this.
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
Yep. It became a vast misconception somewhere along the way that the Magic Kingdom is "for kids only" and it doesn't help that "the decision makers" seemed to embrace that mantra for a long time, gearing things towards toddlers. It'd be nice if the balance was better amongst all four parks. Epcot comes close but it's a cohesive mess. AK still needs a few more indoor dark rides or boat attractions. And it remains sounding silly but DHS still needs far more than it's currently getting (just stating the obvious I know you know this all already, lol).

I'm wondering at what point did it turn into Toddler Kingdom? Maybe ripping out Toad for Pooh? (And I like Winnie the Pooh but heaven forbid they expand, not like they had a lagoon sitting unused at the time) Ripping out Alien (which would likely thrive at, say, DHS or Universal). When did it become "not ok" (to some, of course, not all of us) to have a ride like Alien Encounter in the park? (Which I guess technically falls under "not for the WHOLE family" but still ...)

Also not sure when "family" became "for kids only" :joyfull: (kind of similar to how many discount Slinky Dog, or "family" coaster as a "kid coaster"; sorry not every coaster can be a thrilling "i'm going to die" experience ...)

"BUT MY FOUR YEAR OLD LIKES IT" is not a reason you should base park building and entertainment decisions off of. No reason each park can't have a vast variety of experiences for EVERYONE. And since everyone likes to quote poor dead Walt Disney, it's "what he wanted" ;) and "if you aim for kids ..."

I don't like that some attractions aren't geared towards me but I also understand not everything *will* be. It'd be nice if the Disney Mom Squad understood this.
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Fun fact: One of the earliest plans for the area that eventually became Mickey's Birthdayland/ToonTown Fair/Dumbo's Circus was an entire area that takes place in the 100 Acre Woods with houses for Pooh and the other residents and the other half (Correct me If I'm wrong) being a Circus tent with an indoor ride based on Dumbo and featured Mickey and friends.

I think the idea of Magic Kingdom being associated as a "Toddler Kingdom" might had started once the Disney Princess brand became a thing in the early 2000's. I think around this period is where you would see young girl guests visiting MK in Disney Princess outfits becoming more common compared to the 1990's. Before that, meeting a Disney Princess was gender neutral for years but became popular with girls who wanted to meet them leaving boys to avoid it. The last time the Magic Kingdom was aimed at all audience young and old and both genders was during the 100 Years Of Magic Celebration for Walt Disney's 100th Birthday in 2001 and lasted till mid 2003 as seen in ads and promotional material for Walt Disney World during that period. Alien Encounter was still around during that period.



 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
brb1006 said:
Fun fact: One of the earliest plans for the area that eventually became Mickey's Birthdayland/ToonTown Fair/Dumbo's Circus was an entire area that takes place in the 100 Acre Woods with houses for Pooh and the other residents and the other half (Correct me If I'm wrong) being a Circus tent with an indoor ride based on Dumbo and featured Mickey and friends.

I think the idea of Magic Kingdom being associated as a "Toddler Kingdom" might had started once the Disney Princess brand became a thing in the early 2000's. I think around this period is where you would see young girl guests visiting MK in Disney Princess outfits becoming more common compared to the 1990's. Before that, meeting a Disney Princess was gender neutral for years but became popular with girls who wanted to meet them leaving boys to avoid it. The last time the Magic Kingdom was aimed at all audience young and old and both genders was during the 100 Years Of Magic Celebration for Walt Disney's 100th Birthday in 2001 and lasted till mid 2003 as seen in ads and promotional material for Walt Disney World during that period. Alien Encounter was still around during that period.



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I had known about the Mickey ride/Dumbo thing but never knew about the Pooh Corner/Hundred Acre Wood thing. How cool would that be? They should have done that and put Toontown in MGM/Hollywood Studios. But heaven forbid ... So many things they could have done over the decades so they wouldn't have to scramble now. You'd think they'd learn but they keep doing the same thing at the end of the day. Anywho ... even now, we get a lot of money being spent but they still cut and they still can't make decisions and that usually leads to things not happening. It's still the same mind frame overall, which sucks. They seem to have "ideas" and "goals" but no real plans. It's sad. I'm not a business person but seriously, why do businesses make it harder and more complicated than anything ever needs to be? But I digress ...

The 100 Years of Magic was great and the last time it felt like "real Disney" I suppose.
 
Maeryk

Maeryk

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
I had known about the Mickey ride/Dumbo thing but never knew about the Pooh Corner/Hundred Acre Wood thing. How cool would that be? They should have done that and put Toontown in MGM/Hollywood Studios. But heaven forbid ... So many things they could have done over the decades so they wouldn't have to scramble now. You'd think they'd learn but they keep doing the same thing at the end of the day. Anywho ... even now, we get a lot of money being spent but they still cut and they still can't make decisions and that usually leads to things not happening. It's still the same mind frame overall, which sucks. They seem to have "ideas" and "goals" but no real plans. It's sad. I'm not a business person but seriously, why do businesses make it harder and more complicated than anything ever needs to be? But I digress ...

The 100 Years of Magic was great and the last time it felt like "real Disney" I suppose.
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From a business perspective, it's because the organization is so big, and budgets and concepts need to be approved so far ahead, they are really crystal balling a lot of this stuff. Trying to prognosticate the market and the industry.. and what the people will want years down the road.

In a way, I can't blame them for being hesitant. And I can fully understand the book keeping required for an expansion that will require 500M$, and the planning and shifting if everything else. But for whatever reason, Disney is still stuck firmly in the past.

Snow and Peter Pan STILL hold up. All these years later. But much as I'd like to see a zootopia or big hero six presence on that scale, I realize they will not hold up similarly. But Disney doesn't seem to feel the same way. Ratatouille is a perfect example. Nothing has been done with that property in a decade, and now we are getting a ride? I don't get it.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Maeryk said:
From a business perspective, it's because the organization is so big, and budgets and concepts need to be approved so far ahead, they are really crystal balling a lot of this stuff. Trying to prognosticate the market and the industry.. and what the people will want years down the road.

In a way, I can't blame them for being hesitant. And I can fully understand the book keeping required for an expansion that will require 500M$, and the planning and shifting if everything else. But for whatever reason, Disney is still stuck firmly in the past.

Snow and Peter Pan STILL hold up. All these years later. But much as I'd like to see a zootopia or big hero six presence on that scale, I realize they will not hold up similarly. But Disney doesn't seem to feel the same way. Ratatouille is a perfect example. Nothing has been done with that property in a decade, and now we are getting a ride? I don't get it.
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Potential content on new streaming. Tron and Remy have that. That is my guess.
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
I had known about the Mickey ride/Dumbo thing but never knew about the Pooh Corner/Hundred Acre Wood thing. How cool would that be? They should have done that and put Toontown in MGM/Hollywood Studios. But heaven forbid ... So many things they could have done over the decades so they wouldn't have to scramble now. You'd think they'd learn but they keep doing the same thing at the end of the day. Anywho ... even now, we get a lot of money being spent but they still cut and they still can't make decisions and that usually leads to things not happening. It's still the same mind frame overall, which sucks. They seem to have "ideas" and "goals" but no real plans. It's sad. I'm not a business person but seriously, why do businesses make it harder and more complicated than anything ever needs to be? But I digress ...

The 100 Years of Magic was great and the last time it felt like "real Disney" I suppose.
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Yeah, I remember the 100 Years of Magic Celebration was one of the last times Disney made visiting Walt Disney World and Disneyland actually inviting and didn't focus on the hotels to heavily as a selling point. I remember old Disney Planning videos gave attention to the other resorts and hotels after they go over the many attractions and entertainments each park had at the time. While I view the Disneyland 50th Anniversary celebration campaign as the last of Disney's big anniversary celebrations. I think it was around this point where Disney started shifting focus from families, all ages groups, and both genders and started to slowly focusing on pop and trying to be relevant as seen in Disneyland's 60th Anniversary special.

I remember first hearing about the 100 Acre Woods/Pooh Corner concept from one of Jim Hill's old articles or podcast episodes. Plus the 1980's is when Winnie The Pooh starting becoming very popular with the general public and kick started a period where Winnie The Pooh and pals we're everywhere in the 1990's and early to mid 2000's. Helps that The New Adventures of Winnie The Pooh was airing in 1988 till 1991 and Playhouse Disney (Now Disney Junior) aired reruns around the early mornings.
 
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raymusiccity

raymusiccity

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
I think they will give Space Mountain a nice quick refurbishment for the 50th due to nostalgia. But by 2022 or so a lot could change. IMO.
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It would be an awesome tribute if they could resurrect the original 'astronaut passengers' signage. There seems to be a lot of nostalgia now regarding the early NASA astronauts.
IMG_2405.JPG
 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Maeryk said:
From a business perspective, it's because the organization is so big, and budgets and concepts need to be approved so far ahead, they are really crystal balling a lot of this stuff. Trying to prognosticate the market and the industry.. and what the people will want years down the road.

In a way, I can't blame them for being hesitant. And I can fully understand the book keeping required for an expansion that will require 500M$, and the planning and shifting if everything else. But for whatever reason, Disney is still stuck firmly in the past.

Snow and Peter Pan STILL hold up. All these years later. But much as I'd like to see a zootopia or big hero six presence on that scale, I realize they will not hold up similarly. But Disney doesn't seem to feel the same way. Ratatouille is a perfect example. Nothing has been done with that property in a decade, and now we are getting a ride? I don't get it.
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I agree completely with you on the first two parts. I can understand some hesitation. It just often seems to actually be hesitant about spending the money and not really about the IP. I imagine Rat merch sells.

But to many, Rat as a film actually holds up well and is quite enjoyable. Maybe it's a generational thing? I'm someone who likes new and old so I'm always kind of stuck in the middle on this. Why shouldn't Rat get a ride? Genuinely wondering. Is it just personal preference maybe? I'd love a Wonderland or Neverland area as much as I like Pandora (and I remain one of the few who's seen only glimpses of the movie) ... I think execution is a major problem. Why is the Seas a retread of Finding Nemo? Send us into their world with a fun edutainment experience. It really wasn't that hard. I don't mind the use of characters/IP that I personally find fitting if the execution does them and what was there before justice. But that's me.

I think there was just something charming that doesn't exist anymore. Movies and attractions are still pumped out. Many are excellent, many are meh, but I think the charm and true attention to detail is kind of dead. Not that good work doesn't still exist, it's just ... different.

Anyway, I'm a bit scattered and all over the place in the post but I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from.

And for many Pixar IS Disney. I know that bothers some but there are many who have grown up with Pixar films and associate them with Disney and want their presence. I don't fault them for it, but many are Disney movie fans first and theme park fans second. I'm a fan of both. I hate saying it, but the Pixar Pier infusion, while a terrible mish-mash, has clearly attracted the millenials attention. The boardwalk games are more played then they ever were. But I have no data, just hearsay from people.

So I "understand" many of their decisions even if I don't agree with them. I mean, they built a short coaster themed to the Seven Dwarfs. It gets a solid line. Anything new would of course, but they don't seem to realize that and they think marketing and synerging their latest IP is the right answer. It isn't. I'm not against IP but I want it implemented well. And it shouldn't be the only thing they rely on and utilize.
 
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brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
But to many, Rat as a film actually holds up well and is quite enjoyable. Maybe it's a generational thing? I'm someone who likes new and old so I'm always kind of stuck in the middle on this. Why shouldn't Rat get a ride? Genuinely wondering. Is it just personal preference maybe? I'd love a Wonderland or Neverland area as much as I like Pandora (and I remain one of the few who's seen only glimpses of the movie) ... I think execution is a major problem. Why is the Seas a retread of Finding Nemo? Send us into their world with a fun edutainment experience. It really wasn't that hard. I don't mind the use of characters/IP that I personally find fitting if the execution does them and what was there before justice. But that's me.

I think there was just something charming that doesn't exist anymore. Movies and attractions are still pumped out. Many are excellent, many are meh, but I think the charm and true attention to detail is kind of dead. Not that good work doesn't still exist, it's just ... different.

Anyway, I'm a bit scattered and all over the place in the post but I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from.

And for many Pixar IS Disney. I know that bothers some but there are many who have grown up with Pixar films and associate them with Disney and want their presence. I don't fault them for it, but many are Disney movie fans first and theme park fans second. I'm a fan of both. I hate saying it, but the Pixar Pier infusion, while a terrible mish-mash, has clearly attracted the millenials attention. The boardwalk games are more played then they ever were. But I have no data, just hearsay from people.

So I "understand" many of their decisions even if I don't agree with them. I mean, they built a short coaster themed to the Seven Dwarfs. It gets a solid line. Anything new would of course, but they don't seem to realize that and they think marketing and synerging their latest IP is the right answer. It isn't. I'm not against IP but I want it implemented well. And it shouldn't be the only thing they rely on and utilize.
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The only Disney Parks that comes to mind that's able to focus on both and old new Disney films as attractions and shows (Instead of mostly Classic, film's from the Disney Renaissance, and recently their newer films) would have to be Disneyland Paris, Tokyo, and Hong Kong. Even Tokyo Disneyland's former walk through attraction Cinderella Mystery Tour is the only time characters from The Black Cauldron we're represent at any Disney Park.


 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
brb1006 said:
The only Disney Parks that comes to mind that's able to focus on both and old new Disney films as attractions and shows would have to be Disneyland Paris, Tokyo, and Hong Kong. Even Tokyo Disneyland's former walk through attraction Cinderella Mystery Tour is the only time characters from The Black Cauldron we're represent at any Disney Park.


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WDW especially seems to have an aversion to anything "old" (for the most part, and like everything there are a few exceptions of course) and that's a real shame. Imagine keeping characters relevant so guests wouldn't have to say "who"? I feel like it's more WDW management that's the ultimate problem.

Anaheim sort of seems to want it both ways. Love us for our nostalgia but love us for our new and shiny toys too. They have an OK balance. But I feel like instead of Burbank and TDA style management seeping over into WDW it feels like WDW style management is seeping over into TDA.
 
mikejs78

mikejs78

Premium Member
Spike-in-Berlin said:
Who shares my opinion that they are again wasting a huge opportunity by keeping the
heavily outdated, ugly, loud and outright booooring TL Speedway instead of building a TL expansion with a unique TRON attraction that is tailored to the completely different situation and the design of MK TL, instead of building a Shanghai clone that has been designed for a TL with a completely different design approach. If they take out the TLS there would be plenty of space for an entire TRON sub-land with not only an improved main ride (I consider it a major flaw of the ride to go outdoors partially although it is inside a computer world) but also a restaurant (with energy water), a gift shop and "Flynns" arcade.
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JoeCamel said:
Kids love it. MK is for kids, nuff said
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I don't agree with the "MK is for Kids" statement but there is something to this. I used to roll my eyes at the Speedway - until we took my son to MK for the first time and I saw his face as he got behind the wheel. And we'd been on other "car on a track rides" at other local amusement parks - but this one, for some reason, was magical for him. So much so that on our next visit to MK later in the week, we rope dropped the speedway at his request. You know your a parent when you rope drop the Tomorrowland Speedway.

I also read somewhere (probably here) that the idea of removing the speedway was surveyed and scored low. Apparently there is a nostalgia factor, and many parents who went on the speedway as a kid with their parents dream of taking their children on it. Kind of a rite of passage. So I can see why there is a desire to keep this attraction, whereas if you asked me about this a decade ago, I would have been right there advocating for taking it down for a better attraction.

kurtk said:
I partially disagree. I wish they would update the speedway to electric cars. Give them a sound effects to sound like an ICE if you need to but it would be more environmentally friendly. Also it would smell a lot better on the ride. I also agree with @JoeCamel and @mergatroid above so won't repeat what they said.
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All that said, it does need a reimagining. I believe the current rumor is that it will be rethemed with Tron styling and changed to electric cars.
 

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