Tom Staggs drops some REAL information about the future

[JustInTime]

See...I don't buy that at all.

You've said yourself that if you take IP out of the equation that people would chose the better rides. For that to be true, the opposite would have to be true as well. You can't have that philosophy and chose to not believe the flip side of the coin.

 

[Lee]

Except Shrek is a horrible, horrible attraction - but that's because it was poor execution to begin with, it has nothing to do with stale IP.

Agreed completely.
I would LOVE to reverse time and get Hitchcock back. A FAR superior attraction, and one that was much better suited for that location.

But, I'm sure some folks might call Hitchcock stale...lol

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not true.

A ton of Disney live action/animated films came before the parks. Guests clamored, and complained, when they couldn't see Tinker Bell in Disneyland months after the park opened, so Disney put in a Tinker Bell walkaround character. Always has been, and probably always will be, the synergy between the films and the parks.

Just because the films existed and Walt used his name recognition does not mean that intellectual properties made the park a success. 22% does not make for even a close majority of attractions, and moving forward WED Enterprises only did less and less with Disney films.

Lazyboy is one of the posters who sometimes likes to endlessly argue a weak point, with confusing/nonsensical posts. Don't get upset, but realize that these posts are trolling from a certain point of view.

Ah yes, argumentum ad hominen, always a sign of a strong point.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

The best work WED has ever done is New Orleans Square. Real placemaking, thematic immersion, with Pirates and the Mansion. For many reasons, today's Disney is fundamentally incapable of building something like NOS again. Which is a sad realisation.

Have you been to Buena Vista Street in DCA? It's NOS-level theming, though there are no E tickets like Pirates or Mansion (no place to put them). TDS is another great example - American Waterfront to mention just one port, is incredibly detailed and immersive while still being generic. They're fully capable, but the park-going public appears to go gaga for immersive movie-based environments - so that's what we're going to see in the near future.

I don't mind it - Cars Land is fantastic, as is Wizarding World of Harry Potter (Potter moreso I think). In the case of forming a strong land, I think the IP does need to have some strength - it has to present an environment the audience WANTS to visit. Pandora definitely fits this bill - with or without successful sequels, a correctly executed Pandora will be a huge hit.

The broad theme lands aren't going anywhere and expansion pads are limited, so I doubt WDW/DLR will be overrun with movie lands any time soon. IOA is fundamentally built on that concept, so it's no surprise UOR will continue in the direction they popularized.

 

[BryceM]

Lazyboy is one of the posters who sometimes likes to endlessly argue a weak point, with confusing/nonsensical posts. Don't get upset, but realize that these posts are trolling from a certain point of view.

THE STRAW MAN FALLACY!

Sorry, I'm in AP Language and I've been waiting to use my knowledge of these argumentative fallacies.

 

[Lee]

You've said yourself that if you take IP out of the equation that people would chose the better rides. For that to be true, the opposite would have to be true as well. You can't have that philosophy and chose to not believe the flip side of the coin.

I'm not following your thinking.
I'm saying that ride quality is more important than IP to anyone over a certain age (say teens).
Ask most people which ride they like better, Peter Pan or Haunted Mansion. The majority would opt for the better ride experience, even if they know and like the Pan IP.

The idea that people would prefer a poor or mediocre experience over a great one just because of IP...nah. I don't buy it.

I know several people (I'm looking at you, Smith...) who have no interest in the Potter IP, but flock to IoA for the great experience it offers.

Quality will out...

 

[BryceM]

I'm not following your thinking.
I'm saying that ride quality is more important than IP to anyone over a certain age (say teens).
Ask most people which ride they like better, Peter Pan or Haunted Mansion. The majority would opt for the better ride experience, even if they know and like the Pan IP.

The idea that people would prefer a poor or mediocre experience over a great one just because of IP...nah. I don't buy it.

I know several people (I'm looking at you, Smith...) who have no interest in the Potter IP, but flock to IoA for the great experience it offers.

Quality will out...

Or have never seen Dudley Do-Right but Ripsaw Falls is their favorite ride. Same goes with Splash Mountain. The IP simply just does not determine the quality and the overall likeness of the attraction.

 

[JustInTime]

I'm not following your thinking.
I'm saying that ride quality is more important than IP to anyone over a certain age (say teens).
Ask most people which ride they like better, Peter Pan or Haunted Mansion. The majority would opt for the better ride experience, even if they know and like the Pan IP.

The idea that people would prefer a poor or mediocre experience over a great one just because of IP...nah. I don't buy it.

I know several people (I'm looking at you, Smith...) who have no interest in the Potter IP, but flock to IoA for the great experience it offers.

Quality will out...

I don't know if I can explain it. I am not great with words. But lets just leave it with Potter.

 

[JustInTime]

Or have never seen Dudley Do-Right but Ripsaw Falls is their favorite ride. Same goes with Splash Mountain. The IP simply just does not determine the quality and the overall likeness of the attraction.

Not for an attraction, no. But for an entire theme park? Yes.

 

[Lee]

Not for an attraction, no. But for an entire theme park? Yes.

Or...not.
lol

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not for an attraction, no. But for an entire theme park? Yes.

So Disneyland rode to international acclaim on the backs of the Fantasyland dark rides and a walk through in Tomorrowland?

 

[JustInTime]

Or...not.
lol

Like you said, I guess it comes down to opinions.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm not following your thinking.
I'm saying that ride quality is more important than IP to anyone over a certain age (say teens).
Ask most people which ride they like better, Peter Pan or Haunted Mansion. The majority would opt for the better ride experience, even if they know and like the Pan IP.

The idea that people would prefer a poor or mediocre experience over a great one just because of IP...nah. I don't buy it.

I know several people (I'm looking at you, Smith...) who have no interest in the Potter IP, but flock to IoA for the great experience it offers.

Quality will out...

I may 'like' your post, but I won't like it. ... You know what I think of passive aggressive fanbois, Numero Dos!

I have sorta skimmed this thread over the past few minutes, while watching Despicable Me for the first time (liking it a lot). IP, though matters little. It can help make an attraction more popular. But when people don't largely have a clue what's it's based on ... say Splash Mountain ... it still doesn't matter.

Quality, indeed.

Some of Disney's best attractions in the company's history from Small World to Mansion to PoC to JC to Space Mtn to BTMRR are based on no IP whatsoever and no 'story' per se, even if fans and Imagineers have tried to retroactively add them.

Not quite sure why this debate even is one. Right now, Disney isn't adding much of anything to WDW. Maybe in 4-5-6-7 years, but not now. Just replacing a weak Snow White dark ride with a Snow White kiddie coaster in another 14-15 months.

And some of Disney's best work this century has been with no IP at all ... New Orleans Square may be wonderful ... but Buena Vista Street compares well ... and TDS ... that whole park opened with IP very, very secondary.

Oh, and to whomever said that Star Wars property will be coming to WDW, I'll just again state that no, it won't be for a very long time.

 

[JustInTime]

So Disneyland rode to international acclaim on the backs of the Fantasyland dark rides and a walk through in Tomorrowland?

Certainly not hayrides and ski lifts.

 

[BryceM]

Not for an attraction, no. But for an entire theme park? Yes.

I really hate to argue, but I couldn't disagree more...

For me, a good park consists of good theming, great rides, great atmosphere, cleanliness, staff friendliness, etc. Both Universal and Disney go above and beyond in these categories, and I love them both. For me, a good park is not made by solely their IPs...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Certainly not hayrides and ski lifts.

Main Street, USA, Adventureland and Frontierland were "hayrides and ski lifts?" Maybe you should take your own advice...

 

[Lee]

I have sorta skimmed this thread over the past few minutes, while watching Despicable Me for the first time (liking it a lot).

Explains why you didn't answer your phone...

 

[WDW1974]

Explains why you didn't answer your phone...

Oops, phone is other room ... will call ya when movie is over in 34 minutes. It's quite entertaining, much like the UNI ride!

Oh, and thanks to you and DD for the nice surprise in the mail today. You tell her that 'pumpkin' misses her very much as well!

 

[JustInTime]

I really hate to argue, but I couldn't disagree more...

For me, a good park consists of good theming, great rides, great atmosphere, cleanliness, staff friendliness, etc. Both Universal and Disney go above and beyond in these categories, and I love them both. For me, a good park is not made by solely their IPs...

Nobody is arguing and welcome to the discussion.

My point is, IPs are a major part of themeparks these days. And i'm saying is that Disney has hands down the best IPs and that contributes to their success. But again, it's only part of it. (wish I would have said this earlier)

 

[dreamscometrue]

Oops, phone is other room ... will call ya when movie is over in 34 minutes. It's quite entertaining, much like the UNI ride!

Oh, and thanks to you and DD for the nice surprise in the mail today. You tell her that 'pumpkin' misses her very much as well!

I've decided after months of Jessica Fletcher like sleuthing, that Lee and '74 are actually the same person.