Nope, no interest whatsoever.
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Tom Staggs drops some REAL information about the future
- Thread starter Captain Neo
- Start date
Nope, no interest whatsoever.
Totally agree. Like The Mummy. It's fantastic. Even though the franchise stale, the reboot is coming up so it should be fine. But the ride left me blown away. The problem is most of what Disney has to work with is timeless while Universal's palate is less so. Which is my only concern for Avatar. Disney could be walking into the same problems that Universal has had over the past 15 years or so.
And there are a few stale IPs at Disney but much less so. We just won't talk about the most stale park of all, Epcot.
Well said on the universal IPs. My thoughts exactly.
JustInTime
Well-Known Member
I feel the same. Just no desire. And it doesn't matter how great it is, it will be as stale as Shrek in 10 years.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Just out of curiosity, why is it that Shrek is considered stale, and Snow White (or any other Disney animated film) is not ?
Lee
Adventurer
Stale is also very much an "in the eye if the beholder" deal.Totally agree. Like The Mummy. It's fantastic. Even though the franchise stale, the reboot is coming up so it should be fine. But the ride left me blown away. The problem is most of what Disney has to work with is timeless while Universal's palate is less so. Which is my only concern for Avatar. Disney could be walking into the same problems that Universal has had over the past 15 years or so.
And there are a few stale IPs at Disney but much less so. We just won't talk about the most stale park of all, Epcot.
For one example, to me, Mummy is much less stale than Peter Pan.
With Disney, as fans we tend to consider all the old animated features as "classics", while to the general public...they're just...well...old animated features. That, to many, makes Shrek less stale than say..Snow White.
If the attraction is good enough, the IP shouldn't matter. A discussion had on these boards time and time again.
Notwithstanding, one accusation USF doesn't warrant is stale IP. This park has continually had a revolving door for attraction themes and movies based on.
Notwithstanding, one accusation USF doesn't warrant is stale IP. This park has continually had a revolving door for attraction themes and movies based on.
BryceM
Well-Known Member
I agree that the IP isn't what determines if the attraction is good or not.
Revenge of the Mummy could easily (and hopefully) remove the Brendan Frasier tie-in and it would still be just as good. Splash Mountain is one of the best rides in the world, but does anyone care or know about Song of the South? No.
Someone mentioned that Shrek and Men In Black are stale... Uh, what? These are two very recognizable and popular movies. Men In Black: Alien Attack is probably also the best shooter/dark-ride in the world and it's film that it's based on is certainly not a "stale" IP.
Revenge of the Mummy could easily (and hopefully) remove the Brendan Frasier tie-in and it would still be just as good. Splash Mountain is one of the best rides in the world, but does anyone care or know about Song of the South? No.
Someone mentioned that Shrek and Men In Black are stale... Uh, what? These are two very recognizable and popular movies. Men In Black: Alien Attack is probably also the best shooter/dark-ride in the world and it's film that it's based on is certainly not a "stale" IP.
Lee
Adventurer
Sir, it's far too late in your time zone to be making such proclamations. Though, as always, they are correct.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
I wonder, those who call themselves adults, are they really? I mean several members here act like 5 year olds yet claim to be adults with children. I doubt very much these members are adults. The maturity level is pathetic.
Yensid1974
Well-Known Member
The basic idea that drives these boards, and those like them, that some people like to see as just Disney bashing is this. We can see in small glimpses in all of the parks the quality of work that WDI is capable of doing if just allowed to do so without having budgets cut. The fact that we know with a good amount of certainty that if given the opportunity WDI could produce some of the best attractions not just in each of the parks, but in any park there has ever been, just makes us very frustrated. It is the realization that we are being forced to accept something that isn't as good as it should be, and being expected to believe that is really is the best it could be. For reasonable people, that is something we not only cannot live with, it is something we must fight against. I work at Disney, and I too know that we can do better. While we, nor anyone else, will be perfect we must always strive to get there and it just seems as if that isn't what has been happening as of late. One of the most frustrating things about it for me is that I know it would take very little to change things around. Really, it could be as simple as having the right person take over as CEO of the Disney Company. If Iger selects the right person we could easily see a complete resurgence of the Walt Disney Company theme parks as not just the world leaders but the best there has ever been.
JustInTime
Well-Known Member
Well, there is not a single answer to that question, but I will try my best to answer why I think that it is the case. I feel it's important.
Okay, so a big reason Disney movies are less stale than say Shrek or Happy Feet, is because they are beloved. They are passed down to generation after generation and held to such high regard that they are in an entire separate league then what other family film studios produce. Nobody can quite compare to what Disney has done. I guess if you really want an answer, i'll have to reason with myself and find out why this is almost always the case.
Obviously if you want to really consider why Disney films are held at such a higher standard, you really have to start with Snow White. So I am glad you brought her up. Snow White made history. First full length animated feature. Huge box office success. Oh, and it was in color! For some reason Americans love it when a movie breaks history. Snow did just that. The American Film institute declared Snow White the number 1 (out of 100) animated films of all time. In fact, 9 of the 10 top ten films on that list were Disney Movies. AFI is pretty highly regarded, mind you.
Another reason why I think Disney has an easier time with their IP's is that the classic stories have their own baggage. Stories like Peter Pan and Snow White were well loved and shared long before Disney made them into movies. Today when we hear that a classic book is being made into a film, we hear a universal groan. Walt did what we can't do today. He took the stories everyone knew and loved and made them even better. He enhanced them.
And that does bring be to Walt, I guess. Walt was a real American success story. America loved Walt Disney. Everything he touched turned to gold. He cranked out masterpiece after masterpiece. Then, Disney did something unthinkable when home video was arrived. They took Walt's classics that everybody loved and wanted and made them scarce. Hence the Disney Vault was born. We can't talk about Disney films and their relevance without talking about the vault. Some love it, some hate it. What the Disney Vault did was create a desire and a demand for their product. Also, in turn introducing the films to a new generation with each re-release, keeping them fresh. As soon as they are back on the shelves, they sore to the top of all the DVD/Blu-ray charts beating all the new releases. Every time. All of Universal's IPs are lacking this. Just look at E.T.'s numbers compared to Cinderella.
Also, simply look at price. Disney DVD's are always some of the top grossing of the year. Ever notice anything odd about that? Cinderella is $30.00 right now and at the top of the charts while Shrek is stuck at the bottom of the $5.00 bin. It's simple; my claim is backed up by supply and demand and further so by the numbers. If you wanted to go even further, look at theme park attendance. Walt Disney Word is the most visited theme park in the world. People don't flock to Disney World because of the cutting edge rides, the do it because it's Disney and they love the classic rides based on their favorite Disney films.
Disney has a legacy. It's simple. No other film studio has ever done what Disney has done with the family film genre. They have managed to crank out classic after classic, hit after hit and still keep each most of the IPs fresh and relevant. I'm not saying that all of Universal's properties are stale. Far from it. Marvel, Potter and Suess and enormous steps in the right direction. And perhaps so is the Simpsons. Also, Disney World is a FAR cry from being considered fresh so neither are perfect. And in the same turn, perhaps Avatar is a step in the wrong direction for Disney World. Only time will tell. But at the end of the day, after 70 years, Snow White (or any other Walt Disney produced film) outsells and dances circles around the new guys.
Keep in mind, I love, love Universal. I love both parks. I just go to one for just the rides...and Harry Potter and I go to the other for Disney. And I also understand that people have their own preferences. But with Disney it's a little different @Lee.
Patricia Melton
Well-Known Member
I don't think Avatar has a big following and I don't see it ever becoming something beloved, the way Star Wars is beloved. But that doesn't mean that Avatar won't make a fun mini-land at Animal Kingdom. I really think they could end up doing something extraordinary in creating an alien world to explore.
As a big fan of Jungle Cruise, I've always wished Disney would have done one with dinosaurs and prehistoric mammals at AK...but I like that it looks like we'll be getting an alien boat ride with the Pandora stuff from Avatar. I am not a big fan of Soarin', but making a version for AK themed to Pandora and Avatar will be fun for a lot of people. I doubt I will ever go on that ride but I will be happy to be outside waiting for my family and holding bags/drinks while they are riding.
I am really looking forward to seeing the Imagineers created the vibrant, glow in the dark plant life of Pandora and to see the floating mountains. I also would like to see a Pandora zoo with lots of animatronic animals, if they don't do the boat ride.
I saw Avatar once and didn't think it was anything special...but have always wanted to go to a theme park attraction that felt like another planet....so I am excited for this project.
I really want to see a Star Wars land for DHS though. My son grew up on those movies and still loves them and even my niece and nephew love them so that would be a big hit. I can relate more to the Star Wars movies than Avatar because I have seen the Star Wars stuff a lot but have only watched Avatar once.
As a big fan of Jungle Cruise, I've always wished Disney would have done one with dinosaurs and prehistoric mammals at AK...but I like that it looks like we'll be getting an alien boat ride with the Pandora stuff from Avatar. I am not a big fan of Soarin', but making a version for AK themed to Pandora and Avatar will be fun for a lot of people. I doubt I will ever go on that ride but I will be happy to be outside waiting for my family and holding bags/drinks while they are riding.
I am really looking forward to seeing the Imagineers created the vibrant, glow in the dark plant life of Pandora and to see the floating mountains. I also would like to see a Pandora zoo with lots of animatronic animals, if they don't do the boat ride.
I saw Avatar once and didn't think it was anything special...but have always wanted to go to a theme park attraction that felt like another planet....so I am excited for this project.
I really want to see a Star Wars land for DHS though. My son grew up on those movies and still loves them and even my niece and nephew love them so that would be a big hit. I can relate more to the Star Wars movies than Avatar because I have seen the Star Wars stuff a lot but have only watched Avatar once.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Sometimes, you can be so clearheaded.
I too resent Disney moving in UNI's direction. That of theme parks as a collection of movie franchises. I don't need a collection of movie lands, of Cars Lands and Avatarlands. I want original lands with original themes, broader themes. A Liberty Square and a Sunset Boulevard.
The best work WED has ever done is New Orleans Square. Real placemaking, thematic immersion, with Pirates and the Mansion. For many reasons, today's Disney is fundamentally incapable of building something like NOS again. Which is a sad realisation.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Good answer !
awoogala
Well-Known Member
wouldn't we all?
JustInTime
Well-Known Member
Haha. Thank you. Sorry, the question was almost impossible for me to answer or to put into words, but I still tried. Now I won't get to finish my book tonight.
ChrisFL
Premium Member
Universal for a long time was good at opening attractions that really didn't have to be IP related. Think about it, Earthquake, Jaws, Twister, King Kong....you could have just as much fun with those because the "plot" was very basic, even if you had never watched the related movies. Even the Mummy is a pretty popular idea, cursed egyptian tombs and pharoahs.
I've also held a view that Universal isn't in it for the "classics" for the most part. Their attractions weren't going to last more than 15-20 years before replacements...they're new and fresh vs. old and stale at Disney. Plus, most of their replacements IMO have been just as good as the older attractions they replaced...and we ALL know what us Disney fans feel about how TDO has handled replacements.
JustInTime
Well-Known Member
We aren't talking about attractions. We are talking about the franchises the attractions are based on. No doubt Uni has some amazing attractions. I've never questioned that. I even enjoy Twister. However, Universal's IPs are stale more so than Disney's are. Which is why historically Universals attendance has been driven by rides, not by characters. And vice versa for Disney. And you see which one is more important to attendance numbers at the end of the day.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Except that Disney's emphasis on characters is predated by the success of the theme parks. Disney created the medium by creating great experiences, not subjecting one medium to another.
Lee
Adventurer
Slight disagreement. I don't think attendance us really s good indicator.
I think overall people go where the best rides are. IP is a secondary consideration for anyone older than a teen, or who isn't hooked on " Pixie Dust" (and I don't use that in a negative way here). At least that's true for me and pretty much every adult I know.
Sure, parents choose Disney so the kids can see their favorite characters, but when the kids aren't with them, more and more are shifting away from Disney. That's because the best new rides (for the non-fanatic public) are going in elsewhere.
Attendance is really a dead end in most arguments. After 50 years, Disney parks have become almost a rite of passage for many families. That does, and will continue to, skew attendance in their favor.
But take attendance out of the equation and you get a level playing field for making comparison.