Time Racer Coming

SamatBCV

SamatBCV

Member
Originally posted by WDWFREAK53
Don't quote me on this one...but I believe it has 6 existing "legs" (not that it would be feasible with these 6 structural members...because like stated...the helix needs to remain)...for instance, if you have an "archway" of stones...and you remove the top stone, the whole arch collapses because it is called the "key stone" the same would happen if you removed the helix. (it's like this because an archway is in essence 2 dimensional where a sphere is 3 dimensional)
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Really? I always thought it was three. Do you mean that each visible support has two actual supports in them? I honestly don't know, but I've never noticed more than 3.

DVC Couple, a lot of that depends on the structure of the sphere. The better the design, the more distributed the load, but only within reason (outside of the theoretical world). Plus, I would be surprised if SE is a true sphere (meaning a ball sitting on three - or six ;) legs). The legs would be integrated into the sphere, making it not a true sphere.

I don't know enough about the weight or structural design of SE to know whether it needs the helix or not. However, the bottom line for all of us is that the existing structure could not fully contain a roller coaster. That at least makes me happy (even though I love roller coasters) I want SE to remain in the same spirit of the old EPCOT.
 
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Cliff

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by DVC_Couple_PA
From what I understand, theoreticly you could completely gut SE and the sphere would remain stable. The reason for this is that, according to physics anyway, the load is equal at all points along the sphere so they all cancel out making the structure stable.
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That's why it's hard to crush an egg in the palm of your hand. However, I don't think the the exerior "shell" can support itself in the same mannor. I think it's closer to the structure on the "inside" is supporting the exterior portion (the skin) of this building.

I'm wondering if there is anyone from WDI out there reading these boards. If so, I wonder what they think of all of us.

CT : - )
 
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pheneix

Well-Known Member
>>>However, I don't think the the exerior "shell" can support itself in the same mannor.<<<

Correct. The exterior shell is not self-supportive.
 
WDWFREAK53

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
The EXTERIOR (not including back-up support) is only AlucoBond (Alucobond consists of 2 sheets of .02 Aluminum with a Polyethylene core sandwiched between these two sheets) These panels come in 2 thicknesses 6mm and 4mm (SE is 4mm).

The back-up system for these panels does not have to take much of a load (just typical wind-loads and the actual deadload weight of the panel system)

I have a "typical" system detail that my company uses. (granted, this shows silicone and backer rod which was not used on SE (as you can tell from the "holes" where the triangles come together) SE has an internal gutter system so that the water is taken into the sphere and drained instead of having the water drain off of the actual structure) If you have any more questions about the panel system, feel free to ask.
 

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Raidermatt

Active Member
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Click to expand...
As this blueprint of SE clearly proves, SE is structurally sound with or without the helix.

(You might need to get out a magnifying glass to really see the detail in this blueprint, but trust me, if you look at it long enough, all will become clear....)
 
WDWFREAK53

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Raidermatt
As this blueprint of SE clearly proves, SE is structurally sound with or without the helix.

(You might need to get out a magnifying glass to really see the detail in this blueprint, but trust me, if you look at it long enough, all will become clear....)
Click to expand...

The sphere is structurally sound in the aspect of being supported from collapsing (much like a regular building) although...picture this...the helix is removed...the weight shifts...(not just from wind forces...but now you have people inside...and not just that...you have HEAVY machinery in constant motion...TRUST ME...the HELIX is needed! (Plus...I'm not completely positive that the "SPHERE" is actually...a TRUE...and PERFECT sphere...hmmm...did you ever think of that?)
 
SamatBCV

SamatBCV

Member
Originally posted by WDWFREAK53
The sphere is structurally sound in the aspect of being supported from collapsing (much like a regular building) although...picture this...the helix is removed...the weight shifts...(not just from wind forces...but now you have people inside...and not just that...you have HEAVY machinery in constant motion...TRUST ME...the HELIX is needed! (Plus...I'm not completely positive that the "SPHERE" is actually...a TRUE...and PERFECT sphere...hmmm...did you ever think of that?)
Click to expand...

Freak, first thanks for the diagram... very cool. Second, good point about the sphere staying up without the helix (if ther's not machinery etc...). Third, you're absolutely right that SE is not a true sphere. I think people forget when they look at it that the structure does not just consist of a ball that sits on top of three legs, those legs are built into the structure. Cosmetically its a sphere, but the structure is really not.
 
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pheneix

Well-Known Member
>>>SE is structurally sound with or without the helix.<<<

No, it is not. WDWFreak posted a good diagram, but the structure WILL NOT hold up without the helix. I have a feeling that people may be confusing this structure with a geodesic dome, which does have a self-supporting shell. This is because they have a foundation that keeps the perimeter from shifting inward or outward. The helix acts as the foundation for the sphere. If you take it out, the shell will move outward and collapse. Trust me, I've seen this proved firsthand.

>>>Cosmetically its a sphere, but the structure is really not.<<<

For all intents and purposes, it is.
 
DMC-12

DMC-12

It's HarmonioUS, NOT HarmoniYOU.
Originally posted by WDWFREAK53
The sphere is structurally sound in the aspect of being supported from collapsing (much like a regular building) although...picture this...the helix is removed...the weight shifts...(not just from wind forces...but now you have people inside...and not just that...you have HEAVY machinery in constant motion...TRUST ME...the HELIX is needed! (Plus...I'm not completely positive that the "SPHERE" is actually...a TRUE...and PERFECT sphere...hmmm...did you ever think of that?)
Click to expand...

Right... Think of the HELIX as your spine.... now.. you have two legs.. we wont touch those... but if we remove your spine (the helix) you become all mushy and unstable in the middle and on top... your legs are there holding you up...but the mid section will fold in on itself. :)
 
WDWFREAK53

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by DMC-12
Right... Think of the HELIX as your spine.... now.. you have two legs.. we wont touch those... but if we remove your spine (the helix) you become all mushy and unstable in the middle and on top... your legs are there holding you up...but the mid section will fold in on itself. :)
Click to expand...

Nice analogy!
 
SamatBCV

SamatBCV

Member
Originally posted by pheneix
>>>Cosmetically its a sphere, but the structure is really not.<<<

For all intents and purposes, it is.
Click to expand...

Well intents and purposes is not the real world. The legs are an integral part of the structure, so it is not a true sphere. It may seem like symantecs (sp?) but the fact that it is not a true sphere does make a difference.

As for the helix, pheneix (oh I'm a poet :lol: ) you have a good point that the structure needs to be held in to prevent collapse due to its large size and weight. This could be done in a number of ways including the helix. Does anyone have any photos from the construction of SE? That would tell us a lot.
 
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pheneix

Well-Known Member
>>>The legs are an integral part of the structure, so it is not a true sphere.<<<

That's true, but if you are building inside of the building, you treat it like a sphere unless you want to destabilize the whole thing.
 
WDWFREAK53

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by pheneix
>>>The legs are an integral part of the structure, so it is not a true sphere.<<<

That's true, but if you are building inside of the building, you treat it like a sphere unless you want to destabilize the whole thing.
Click to expand...

You are right Pheneix...everything must be done symmetrically to even it all out.
 
SamatBCV

SamatBCV

Member
Good point pheneix (although I'm still saying its not a tru shpere). Since I'm feeling lazy right now, I'm just gonna ask instead of looking for a picture. Is there a support directly under the center of SE? I didn't think so, but I'd like some confirmation on that. If there isn't I believe that I can provide a diagram that will explain some of the mechanics.
 

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