Tim Delaney-Valerie Edwards dismissal thread

[Buried20KLeague]

I can feel what you're saying, but leemac, who has significant WDI contacts, several months ago lamented how that WDI was going to be gradually changing itself from a basically creative organization, into a basically managerial organization. Meaning that it's primary function would no longer be in-house creativity, but rather the nerve center for controlling outsourced and contracted creative consultants.

Or at least, that's how I remember it. :lookaroun

And leemac's been the "anti-74" historically, so to speak. You have to admit, this and similar moves do tend to give a little credance to what he was saying.

AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! STOP WITH ALL THIS COMMON SENSE!!!!!! U R GOING TO MAKE MY HEAD ESSPLODE!

Ah, rationale. Ain't it grand?!?!?!? :lol:

 

[jakeman]

If you think they're lying, or you don't think they're speaking from first hand experience... Then fine. But that doesn't mean you have any rationale to attack. 74 is saying the same things Eddie, LeeMac and others have said. If you go after him, go after them all.

They aren't the Borg. You can question the credibility, and more importantly motives, and tone with one without doing it to all.

I'm not defending or deriding these decisions, but I just want to point out that these folks were part of the Eisner years, both the good and the bad. The bad Eisner years were arguably worse than the perception of how things are today.

Edit: I probably should clarify that is in general. This particular topic seems to be rather cut and dry.

 

[mcjaco]

We DON'T know the back story. Which is why you should defer to those that do. Eddie, LeeMac, 74, Honor... People of this nature. If you choose not to believe them, then so be it... But I don't think you should cast stones in anyone's direction, either. You don't have first-hand knowledge, and don't claim to. They DO... And are happy to share it.

Why do I have to defer to people? I have inside contacts, but I should be the one defering? Sorry, I just don't go around promoting myself as an insider. I'm only casting stones on the continual "doom and gloom" (Uh oh, there's that term again). Everytime something like this happens, it's the end of the so called world, and Disney is going to fall flat on it's face. Yadda, yadda, yadda. What I'm saying, and perhaps not in the best way, is that to make major changes, sometimes you have to really mix things up. If things are stagnant, I don't care how awesome the people are at the top, things have to change. Unfortunately, that's the way it works in corporations.

If you think they're lying, or you don't think they're speaking from first hand experience... Then fine. But that doesn't mean you have any rationale to attack. 74 is saying the same things Eddie, LeeMac and others have said. If you go after him, go after them all.

I never said they were lying. I said there might be more to this that, than everyone knows. I didn't attack anyone either. I simply stated the "doom and gloom" (oh noes, not again!) is getting tiresome.

Creative types are very rarely the "problem" when situations like this arise... ESPECIALLY those with histories and track records like these two have. Stories we've heard (long before this, even) of clashing over money and quality make perfect rational sense and have to have played a part in this. To think otherwise would be naive.

It's naive to think that "creative" people are never the problem. As an artist myself, I can be quite bullheaded with my ideas, and do not like others input into my work. It's a two way street. And clashes between money and quality have been going on since Walt started this company, it's not new now.

I can feel what you're saying, but leemac, who has significant WDI contacts, several months ago lamented how that WDI was going to be gradually changing itself from a basically creative organization, into a basically managerial organization. Meaning that it's primary function would no longer be in-house creativity, but rather the nerve center for controlling outsourced and contracted creative consultants.

Yeah, I don't think I put my thoughts real well to "paper".....it happens. Unfortunately, everything is getting outsourced. Even the websites are done by others, which is why there's always gaffes in them. Again, it's the way of corporate America. Is it the best way for Disney to do business? I have no idea. Only time will tell.

And leemac's been the "anti-74" historically, so to speak. You have to admit, this and similar moves do tend to give a little credance to what he was saying.

No doubt, but when one poster only seems to show his head when it's nothing but sour grapes, credance starts dissipate. I can pop my head in everytime something goes wrong, and tell you "I told you so" as good as anyone. :animwink:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Why do I have to defer to people? I have inside contacts, but I should be the one defering? Sorry, I just don't go around promoting myself as an insider. I'm only casting stones on the continual "doom and gloom" (Uh oh, there's that term again). Everytime something like this happens, it's the end of the so called world, and Disney is going to fall flat on it's face. Yadda, yadda, yadda. What I'm saying, and perhaps not in the best way, is that to make major changes, sometimes you have to really mix things up. If things are stagnant, I don't care how awesome the people are at the top, things have to change. Unfortunately, that's the way it works in corporations.



I never said they were lying. I said there might be more to this that, than everyone knows. I didn't attack anyone either. I simply stated the "doom and gloom" (oh noes, not again!) is getting tiresome.



It's naive to think that "creative" people are never the problem. As an artist myself, I can be quite bullheaded with my ideas, and do not like others input into my work. It's a two way street. And clashes between money and quality have been going on since Walt started this company, it's not new now.



Yeah, I don't think I put my thoughts real well to "paper".....it happens. Unfortunately, everything is getting outsourced. Even the websites are done by others, which is why there's always gaffes in them. Again, it's the way of corporate America. Is it the best way for Disney to do business? I have no idea. Only time will tell.



No doubt, but when one poster only seems to show his head when it's nothing but sour grapes, credance starts dissipate. I can pop my head in everytime something goes wrong, and tell you "I told you so" as good as anyone. :animwink:

If you have inside contacts, why don't you check in with them and see what their thoughts are? It would be one more way we could get confirmation (or not) of what these others are saying.

Clashes between quality and money aren't new... But the unabashed attempts to fatten the bottom line at expense of "show" IS. There also weren't shareholders to appease back then. There is now.

It seems, from the outside looking in, that the clash is between those creatives that have been there FOREVER, and have always done things a certain way, to "Disney" standards, putting show first (like Baxter)... And those that are more contemporary and are willing to cut when needed or told to (like video screen lover Fitzgerald). Times change, companies go public, CEO's come along that have different goals that are mandated by shareholders and his bonus structure. They change priorities. Those there for decades aren't happy about that. Clash begins. Those that bend and do things the "new" way (like Delaney with DCA) survive (at least for a while). Those that don't... Don't.

It seems that simple.

I understand Corporate America. VERY well. But I also know that what sets Disney (and primarily its parks) apart from everyone else is that they WEREN'T just like Coporate America. They didn't sacrifice "show" for a buck. They weren't Six Flags. They weren't Uni. They didn't outsource, and they cared primarily about being at a level that was unattainable by anyone else... No matter how hard they tried.

But that's not what they're doing now. They're becoming another "regular" large American Corporation. That's what it's felt like they've done for the past few years. And to me, from the outside looking in, it seems like these latest moves only serve to advance that mindset. LeeMac, 74, etc., only confirm what it seems to be from this casual observer's point of view.

 

[SirGoofy]

One thing I have a problem with, is that some people have been completely ignoring the up swing recently.

MK is practically getting rebuilt. A pretty big expansion is on it's way. Parks are getting aesthetic touch ups. There's something changing, seemingly for the better.

While I feel like there are still steps to be taken, the bashing of every little thing that is done is getting slightly tiresome, especially since things seem to be getting better.

 

[jt04]

I just don't see it. It was Eisner that always sought the cash over show strategy. Things have changed but everyone seems caught up in the past management's viewpoint.

And the closer DCA gets to it's makeover and also the closer animation comes to proving that Iger knows what he's doing, the more desperate the critics are sounding.

Interesting.

 

[jt04]

One thing I have a problem with, is that some people have been completely ignoring the up swing recently.

MK is practically getting rebuilt. A pretty big expansion is on it's way. Parks are getting aesthetic touch ups. There's something changing, seemingly for the better.

While I feel like there are still steps to be taken, the bashing of every little thing that is done is getting slightly tiresome, especially since things seem to be getting better.

It's really bizarre. Almost hateful. I wish they would just say what's really bugging them because it is starting to sound almost delusional.

 

[HMF]

I simply stated the "doom and gloom" (oh noes, not again!) is getting tiresome.

This is nothing. Go check out Micechat.:animwink:

 

[SoccerMickey]

As for what this means for WDI is too early to tell. The real news will come out when we see the quality of the product being put in the parks in the future.

 

[jt04]

This is nothing. Go check out Micechat.:animwink:

Good point. They certainly turned LP's boards so negative that nobody posts there anymore hardly. I'm really wondering if this isn't a strategy.

Could it even be Disney's way of fighting forums they don't control? Make them so utterly negative people go elsewhere. Namely disney.com :lol:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

One thing I have a problem with, is that some people have been completely ignoring the up swing recently.

MK is practically getting rebuilt. A pretty big expansion is on it's way. Parks are getting aesthetic touch ups. There's something changing, seemingly for the better.

While I feel like there are still steps to be taken, the bashing of every little thing that is done is getting slightly tiresome, especially since things seem to be getting better.

I don't disagree that there's been some things to be happy about lately... The HM refurb is a great example.

But at the same time, we still have the SM refurb situation...

The JC refurb that seems like it'll never happen, and when it does will we see all the things DL got?

FL Expansion is a large project, to be sure... And a major influx of cash... But I'm worried that it's so meet and greet heavy. But I'll be the first to admit that if it's done with the quality of DLP's Fantasyland, I'll be completely content just to stroll through the area, even if there's not that much to do. The jury is out, in my mind. We have no idea what will stay and what will get cut.

We have multiple shuttered attractions with no replacements.

We have multiple restaurants shuttered (which makes NO sense!!! It's profit right in front of their noses!!).

And these are just a few things.

I know this is a process... And they can't instantly get things done. That's why I think a year from now we'll really know if they're doing things differently or not.

But in the meantime... They're letting top talent go at WDI.

 

[MousDad]

It's really bizarre. Almost hateful. I wish they would just say what's really bugging them because it is starting to sound almost delusional.

What you're missing in all of this, is that leemac has only in the last month or two been a "doom and gloomer." He has historically defended TD(fill in the blank) tooth and nail. He's like what you were trying to be with TDO, only with real inside info (and a paycheck from the Mouse).

So for him to sound off like this, it is at a minimum worth noting.

 

[SirGoofy]

But at the same time, we still have the SM refurb situation...

Space was a TDO blunder.

The JC refurb that seems like it'll never happen, and when it does will we see all the things DL got?

It'll happen soon enough.

As for the scope, I've been told it's big. What happens is yet to be seen.

FL Expansion is a large project, to be sure... And a major influx of cash... But I'm worried that it's so meet and greet heavy. But I'll be the first to admit that if it's done with the quality of DLP's Fantasyland, I'll be completely content just to stroll through the area, even if there's not that much to do. The jury is out, in my mind. We have no idea what will stay and what will get cut.

I agree with some of the problems with the expansion, but it'll do somethings that're desperately needed in MK: a big people eating E-ticket and adding two restaurants. I would have loved some more rides, but I'm not going to complain at the size/scope of the expansion.

We have multiple shuttered attractions with no replacements.

We have multiple restaurants shuttered (which makes NO sense!!! It's profit right in front of their noses!!).

These two are mostly on the TDO front, but I'm not going to get into that bee's nest.

I know this is a process... And they can't instantly get things done. That's why I think a year from now we'll really know if they're doing things differently or not.

I agree. I'm not going to jump and say everything is great and back to normal, but to say the leadership is incompetent is also jumping to a conclusion.

But in the meantime... They're letting top talent go at WDI.

I agree, it's odd, but who knows who is ready to step up and be the next WDI legend.

 

[jt04]

What you're missing in all of this, is that leemac has only in the last month or two been a "doom and gloomer." He has historically defended TD(fill in the blank) tooth and nail. He's like what you were trying to be with TDO, only with real inside info (and a paycheck from the Mouse).

So for him to sound off like this, it is at a minimum worth noting.

Yes, after real improvements are being made as opposed to recent history (Eisner's final years). I think there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes that are playing out here and elsewhere. Because otherwise none of it makes sense.

I've been here a long time and what we see on the forums lately is not truly indicative of what is going on. There is much more to this than is readily apparent.

I'm thinking we got the MK expansion just in time. :shrug:

 

[jt04]

Space was a TDO blunder.



It'll happen soon enough.

As for the scope, I've been told it's big. What happens is yet to be seen.



I agree with some of the problems with the expansion, but it'll do somethings that're desperately needed in MK: a big people eating E-ticket and adding two restaurants. I would have loved some more rides, but I'm not going to complain at the size/scope of the expansion.



These two are mostly on the TDO front, but I'm not going to get into that bee's nest.



I agree. I'm not going to jump and say everything is great and back to normal, but to say the leadership is incompetent is also jumping to a conclusion.



I agree, it's odd, but who knows who is ready to step up and be the next WDI legend.

I think you are mostly correct which is nice cause I don't need to post near as often. My carpel tunnel thanks you.

 

[_Scar]

This is nothing. Go check out Micechat.:animwink:

If they don't like your opinion there they can lower your reputation. Beleive me, I tried to defend WDW but they are relentless about trash talking it. And a lot of older men are obbsessed with young princesses. It's a bit distasteful. The forum does doom and gloom a lot, but they do have active forums for all DL resorts worldwide wish WDWM had that.

 

[HMF]

If they don't like your opinion there they can lower your reputation. Beleive me, I tried to defend WDW but they are relentless about trash talking it. And a lot of older men are obbsessed with young princesses. It's a bit distasteful. The forum does doom and gloom a lot, but they do have active forums for all DL resorts worldwide wish WDWM had that.

I really must insist we drop the "Doom and Gloom" description. It's no better than Micechat's DOM description.

 

[tirian]

One thing I have a problem with, is that some people have been completely ignoring the up swing recently.

MK is practically getting rebuilt. A pretty big expansion is on it's way. Parks are getting aesthetic touch ups. There's something changing, seemingly for the better.

While I feel like there are still steps to be taken, the bashing of every little thing that is done is getting slightly tiresome, especially since things seem to be getting better.

That's why I took a nearly 2-week break from the boards. It made my life happier. Seriously.

But back to this thread: everyone complaining about these layoffs is a legitimate "insider" with just cause for being upset. The outcry doesn't seem to be that Disney is falling apart, but that Disney was finally doing very well, and suddenly made a boneheaded move. :shrug:

 

[SirGoofy]

That's why I took a nearly 2-week break from the boards. It made my life happier. Seriously.

But back to this thread: everyone complaining about these layoffs is a legitimate "insider" with just cause for being upset. The outcry doesn't seem to be that Disney is falling apart, but that Disney was finally doing very well, and suddenly made a boneheaded move. :shrug:

No, I completely agree that this is a head-scratcher. But some people seem to think that everything that is done is a boneheaded move.

I was speaking in a generality that I've noticed.:wave:

 

[SirGoofy]

I really must insist we drop the "Doom and Gloom" description. It's no better than Micechat's DOM description.

While sometimes both are used unnecessarily, the DO describe a select few people.