The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[MerlinTheGoat]

You say MM+ has a been a failure financially and that it's a fact. But I thought Iger and the gang have been very tight lipped about it and have not released any financial information on the project. Not even the budget, which here on forum posts has gone from $1B to $2B to $2.5B in what seems like just a matter of months.

All of this could be true, but the last few pages keep stressing the importance of factual statements, and right now, we don't have any figures.

That's basically what has happened though. They're not going to admit it's a failure, but we have heard from trusted sources on this forum (such as the likes of WDW1974, Lee and others) that nextgen is considered a huge failure internally. Whatever the guests may think about it, it has not given the executives what they wanted out of it (and it's not going to at this rate). There are yet more price increases and budget cuts throughout the parks, and George Kalogridis is said to have become the fall guy selected for this mess. But besides this forum's posters, Bob Iger has been shown to be quite obviously extremely uncomfortable when asked about the project during financial interviews, outright ignoring the questions about nextgen's profitability and refusing to answer (he'd be talking it up like no tomorrow if there was anything to be proud of).

As stated by ford91exploder, the figures about the project now breaking 2 billion have been referenced by the likes of WDW1974 and I believe Martin (marni1971) most recently mentioned it was 2.5. So you'll again have to ask them as they've got the figures. But it has long since ballooned far beyond its original 800 million budget and is reported to show no signs of stopping (unless they can it which most likely isn't happening).

 

[spacemt354]

The attractions in DCA aren't California destinations. It's not like you can leave the park, drive around and find the real Silly Symphony Swings, the real Mickey Wheel and whatever else. These attractions are just inspired by California. I could see if there was a replica of the Chinese Theatre in the park, or the Hollywood Hills or Capital Records or whatever else. The attractions in DCA aren't famous California landmarks. They just invoke California.

I agree with this.

The only reference DCA has to the state of California is the old Carthay Circle Theater, which has since been torn down, and Soarin' which shows the landscapes of Cali from the air.

Other than that, you won't be able to find Radiator Springs on route 66 ( i checked) and there isn't a haunted hollywood hotel down sunset. All of these attractions are inspired by Cali which makes it more unique than the other poster was implying.

 

[NearTheEars]

By your logic, we could ask why one would visit DAK when they could go out into real animal/wildlife habitats, right?

I was going to say they would but it's cheaper to go to DAK. But is it? It's certainly safer, I guess, than a real safari.

One thing I do agree with us that taking a family to WDW is crazy expensive.

 

[Funmeister]

Ever been to the marketplace in the evenings or at night? People aren't complaining about parking right now because it's empty (on second thought it may just be because they like to complain about all things Disney so it's hard to know for sure)

Do you realize you just went from saying it is "Bursting at the seems" to "People aren't complaining about parking right now because it's empty?"

You sir need help.

 

[WDWDad13]

Do you realize you just went from saying it is "Bursting at the seems" to "People aren't complaining about parking right now because it's empty?"

You sir need help.

and you sir need to understand when someone is being sarcastic ...just saying

 

[maxairmike]

You do bash Universal, you have done so more than once. That's not the issue though, its your prerogative if you want to bash Universal and you're perfectly entitled to do so but then why do you have such an issue when someone expresses any sort of criticism of WDW? And why do you find it so hard to accept that such criticisms lack validity and resort to accusing people of being critical for the sake of it?

You've done that again here, you say people are "haters" because they can't see the good in WDW. If anyone here were legitimately a "hater" then why on earth would they be wasting time posting on a WDW-dedicated forum? You can't bear any sort of criticism of WDW and so you throw out labels like "haters" and imply people have agendas and are simply refusing to see anything positive in WDW which isn't the case.

The standards and quality that each member of this forum expects of WDW were created by their own individual experience of the resort. All each member here can do is hold WDW to the standards that it has set itself, that is what it will be judged on and if it falls short in any way then we are perfectly entitled to express our opinions on that. As hard as it might be for you to accept, some people criticise because they care.

To further the point(s) this great post makes, why would a bunch of "haters" be ticked at what the place has become? Wouldn't "haters" be happy the place isn't living up to expectations the company set for itself years ago? Haters wouldn't be practically begging the resort and company to live up to its own standards. People who love the product and have a passion for it do that, they advocate for something better. They want to see it succeed. They know it was better, could be better, and should be better.

There are no legitimate, reasonable responses to back up the current state of things. "That's just the way things are now" and "Well, it is a business, and they have to make Wall St. happy" are weak, pass-the-buck, we don't care responses. The resort and the company performed just as well or better when standards and expectations were upheld and met.

If you can show me that the parks and properties they have cannot be properly maintained at an acceptable profit margin (and a realistic one, not the pie-in-the-sky stupid high immediate returns the Street expects coupled with absurd executive compensation), then maybe that calls into question the real strength of your business and how it is being run. I know, that statement opens up a gigantic can of worms, but I think everyone can understand it without pouring out the contents of said can.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Do you realize you just went from saying it is "Bursting at the seems" to "People aren't complaining about parking right now because it's empty?"

You sir need help.

I think you may have misread that.


Incidentally, if may interrupt all the name-calling of esteemed fellow forum members, @WDWDad13 is quite correct. The Marketplace often is packed. There is a reason why Disney is currently in the process of drastically expanding the area.

 

[WDWDad13]

I think you may have misread that.


Incidentally, if may interrupt all the name-calling of esteemed fellow forum members, @WDWDad13 is quite correct. The Marketplace often is packed. There is a reason why Disney is currently in the process of drastically expanding the area.

...and let's hope the expansion includes the re-addition of the good 'ol smokestacks too

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The attractions in DCA aren't California destinations. It's not like you can leave the park, drive around and find the real Silly Symphony Swings, the real Mickey Wheel and whatever else. These attractions are just inspired by California. I could see if there was a replica of the Chinese Theatre in the park, or the Hollywood Hills or Capital Records or whatever else. The attractions in DCA aren't famous California landmarks. They just invoke California.

Exactly.

There is a real Main Street USA just down the road in Orlando. And the real Caribbean are closer to Caribbean Plaza than most of California is to DCA.

Disney presents a Disneyfied version of the real thing. And it makes more sense to visit Disney's California in the real California than in Hong Kong. Paris too has finaly realised this and is about to open a Ratatouille Paris area, and it is looking great!

 

[maxairmike]

...and let's hope the expansion includes the re-addition of the good 'ol smokestacks too

Along with the paddlewheel. Which, by the way, is a wonderful example of what several of us around here have mentioned and continue to try and point out. @The Empress Lilly has actually covered this topic many times. Symptoms of a larger problem.

 

[WDWDad13]

FYI they are NOT expanding the area as much as they are re-purposing the areas. The reason there is such an "increase" of crowds is because there are huge amounts of space blocked off and/or spaces that no longer offer anything wroth stopping for. But, you guys keep living in your fantasy world. lol

I tried to type this message a little slower so you guys could understand. Probably not though. Sad.

.....ummmm.....ok??? Repurposing and not expanding? Repurposing into what? Why all the extra parking, and buildings, if they aren't expanding

 

[GoofGoof]

FYI they are NOT expanding the area as much as they are re-purposing the areas. The reason there is such an "increase" of crowds is because there are huge amounts of space blocked off and/or spaces that no longer offer anything wroth stopping for. But, you guys keep living in your fantasy world. lol

I tried to type this message a little slower so you guys could understand. Probably not though. Sad.

You lost me on this one too. Every time I have ever gone to DTD it's been packed. I haven't been back since they started major construction so I can only imagine the crowding is a lot worse now. I don't remember the exact numbers, but isn't Disney Springs doubling the number of shops and restaurants?

 

[Funmeister]

You lost me on this one too. Every time I have ever gone to DTD it's been packed. I haven't been back since they started major construction so I can only imagine the crowding is a lot worse now. I don't remember the exact numbers, but isn't Disney Springs doubling the number of shops and restaurants?

>sigh< The entire complex is NOT guest ready. Meaning areas that had shops and restaurants are no longer accessible and/or have cookie cutter merchandise shops selling the same crap. This causes a shift in crowd density. It will feel more crowded because people are not dispersed like they should be or have been. The concentration levels have shifted. If people are not where they once were then they are forced or drawn to areas that are.

It does not mean there is an increase in attendance. My challenge is to anyone...ANYONE here is to please give or show a list of announced shops and restaurants for the NEW Disney Springs. Yes, there will be new shops and restaurants but not the number of quality unique establishments many of you are expecting. There will be empty spaces available for rent WELL into it's second or more years of operation.

Please show me the list of shops and restaurants that will "DOUBLE" their offerings. Please. Humor me.

 

[71jason]

Everything all about "rides" to most of you all isn't it?

Yes. See DCA 1.0. Or Animal Kingdom.

 

[The Mom]

Just a reminder. This forum is for discussions, not arguments. If you don't know the difference, then please don't post anything. Thank you.

 

[71jason]

No the lesson is optimism is never rewarded by Disney, DW and I went to the AP opening of Mermaid - The queue was awesome, the ride value engineered beyond recognition. DW's comment we waited 3 years for THAT?

Except the queue belongs to another ride. It's far too realistic for what follows. It's like if HM had an actual creepy graveyard, sans jokey epitaphs. Or IASW had actual photographs of world landmarks. Same goes for Gaston's--I want cartoony heads on the wall, not actual deer heads.

 

[themarchhare]

Here is my thing. I am optimistic that Disney can knock people's socks off with Pandora, and then continue that with some type of Star Wars land. Why am I optimistic, you ask? Because there is so much substance with both, not to mention the enormous number of Star Wars fans as well as new Avatar movies coming out.

Okay.

So, just to reiterate:

You're optimistic because there's a lot that WDI/TDO could do.
And you're optimistic because there's a large fanbase supporting the theme of an expansion.

I don't see any reason for optimism.

I see two statements completely unrelated to the area/attraction quality itself.

Until there are details (or even announcements for the sake of SW), why exactly should one be optimistic? Look at TDO's work in the past decade.

 

[Cesar R M]

Anger, fun, it's all a matter of perspective. Seriously, though, I am truly sorry if the arguing back and forth has been a turn-off today. I used to debate in college so I sometimes forget that a fun argument for me, may not be so fun for others.

aaah no, the issue wasn't on this thread nor was caused by you. So, dont worry about it!.

And Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows in BOOK FORM sold 15 million copies on the first day of its release, And they cost about the same amount as well. Hmm...

I wonder if THE LORD OF THE RINGS got a nice boost with the movies.. and now with THE HOBBIT.

I would have loved to see hobbiton or the elven forest of Elron(Rivendell) in DAK than Pandora, but then that's IMHO.

Wow that's about all I can say about some of this lol it really makes me question what WOULD make some of you happy

Having a critique on something is a way to express something can be fixed or done better. It doesn't explicitly means it makes them angry, annoyed, or sad.
Nor means the person is "Never" Happy.
You seem to be implying a lot towards the people who called on you about your sources (which You have dodged said question a lot.)
Props to you, because you dodged the question very well....then you did an excellent job in switching the conversation target or theme slowly towards "Rides" to skip the whole "Where are my sources!" problem.

Well then, why don't you share some of the information your inside sources have provided to you and give those people a legitimate reason to have some optimism?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, why do you find any criticism of WDW so abhorrent? I know you like to play the "you're all being negative and critical for the sake of it" card but is it really that hard to believe and accept that they have genuine gripes with WDW that they might want to express on a discussion forum?

I mean, you consistently bash Universal (including the good) so why do you have such an issue with people expressing any type of criticism of WDW?

I wonder if Someday I will be able to get my gorgeous butt to Universal, to make a proper opinion on both parks groups.
But then I'm pretty sure I still wont. As I did only see like 30 or 20% of WDW. (even less if We take the Resorts and Water Parks into consideration)

Name something you consider good that we've bashed. Maintenance cuts aren't good, value engineered dark rides such as Mermaid are mediocre, tearing down and replacing rides with either inferior versions or nothing I can hardly consider good. Spending 2.5+ billion on wristbands instead of park attractions is hardly praise worthy (especially since even Iger realizes it's a flop financially). There have been good Disney projects, but they have largely avoided WDW's gates. Star Tours 2.0 and Festival of Fantasy are some of those exceptions (though again there have been a lot of negatives to offset these like the loss of Spectromagic).


There's plenty that would make me happy. More attractions on the level of quality of the following would work- Imagination 1.0, Horizons, Spaceship Earth (94 version or prior), World of Motion, Pirates of the Caribbean, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion etc. Or rides similar to those from Disneysea. And the reopening of even non ride attractions such as Diamond Horseshoe, upstairs Imageworks or Wonders of Life. Cars Land has a lot of quality with Radiator Springs Racers, Hong Kong just received the really cool Mystic Manor along with the also neat Grizzly Gulch.

If allowed, WDW could be getting some of the quality of rides the other parks are. Not clones, but new attractions. There's even a lot of excitement for Ratatouille in Paris. As of yet though that quality has been almost entirely absent and we've gotten stuck with mediocre or bad rides like Toy Story Mania or Mermaid.

Speaking of budget cuts. Anyone knows ANYTHING about the Parade for DISNEY ANIMAL KINGDOM?
It is really gone forever? or they will restart once the Lion King show is again up and working?

Wow did you ever just prove my point with some of you - case closed


Goodnight

You did prove his point too, just saying.

 

[71jason]

Ever been to the marketplace in the evenings or at night? People aren't complaining about parking right now because it's empty

I completely agree. However, I would posit the crowds have nothing to do with any inherent love for DTD--it's people looking to save a buck or two by (1) not visiting a theme park that day, or (2) not wanting to pay to hop to MK or EPCOT, because the other two parks close so ridiculously early. DTD is the default option.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The attractions in DCA aren't California destinations. It's not like you can leave the park, drive around and find the real Silly Symphony Swings, the real Mickey Wheel and whatever else. These attractions are just inspired by California. I could see if there was a replica of the Chinese Theatre in the park, or the Hollywood Hills or Capital Records or whatever else. The attractions in DCA aren't famous California landmarks. They just invoke California.

I guess that makes sense, so basically it's just a theme park in California. Soarin being the only direct connection to California, right? Heck, if things got bad enough they could probably sell it to Six Flags.