The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[ParkMan73]

Except the queue belongs to another ride. It's far too realistic for what follows. It's like if HM had an actual creepy graveyard, sans jokey epitaphs. Or IASW had actual photographs of world landmarks. Same goes for Gaston's--I want cartoony heads on the wall, not actual deer heads.

This hits on something I wonder in all this discussion.

Has WDI become more of an architectural design firm and less of a ride engineering firm? With all the various cutbacks over the years, have they lost the core of their ride group?

 

[GoofGoof]

>sigh< The entire complex is NOT guest ready. Meaning areas that had shops and restaurants are no longer accessible and/or have cookie cutter merchandise shops selling the same crap. This causes a shift in crowd density. It will feel more crowded because people are not dispersed like they should be or have been. The concentration levels have shifted. If people are not where they once were then they are forced or drawn to areas that are.

It does not mean there is an increase in attendance. My challenge is to anyone...ANYONE here is to please give or show a list of announced shops and restaurants for the NEW Disney Springs. Yes, there will be new shops and restaurants but not the number of quality unique establishments many of you are expecting. There will be empty spaces available for rent WELL into it's second or more years of operation.

Please show me the list of shops and restaurants that will "DOUBLE" their offerings. Please. Humor me.

I'm basing the "double the shops and restaurants" statement on information found on the main page here. I think everyone knows that the full vendor list hasn't been released.

 

[themarchhare]

Ultimately, we shouldn't be settling for mediocrity (FLE) when we can have excellence (WWOHP 1/2/3).

Ironically, the same issues are going on in the Busch Gardens Williamsburg fandom right now. Another location that isn't what it was used to be (and my home park, nonetheless), but apologists will still defend the cutbacks and lack of utter awesomeness.

 

[ford91exploder]

Except the queue belongs to another ride. It's far too realistic for what follows. It's like if HM had an actual creepy graveyard, sans jokey epitaphs. Or IASW had actual photographs of world landmarks. Same goes for Gaston's--I want cartoony heads on the wall, not actual deer heads.

My point exactly if the same heart went into the ride Mermaid would have been a legitimate e-ticket dark ride, right now you are correct the queue does not match ride at all.

This hits on something I wonder in all this discussion.

Has WDI become more of an architectural design firm and less of a ride engineering firm? With all the various cutbacks over the years, have they lost the core of their ride group?

I and many others would say YES, Look at Eddie Sotto and Tony Baxter for examples.

 

[GoofGoof]

I completely agree. However, I would posit the crowds have nothing to do with any inherent love for DTD--it's people looking to save a buck or two by (1) not visiting a theme park that day, or (2) not wanting to pay to hop to MK or EPCOT, because the other two parks close so ridiculously early. DTD is the default option.

The classic day at the pool followed by dinner at DTD. You want to go somewhere to eat and walk around a little but not waste a park day.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I guess that makes sense, so basically it's just a theme park in California. Soarin being the only direct connection to California, right? Heck, if things got bad enough they could probably sell it to Six Flags.

Well, the Red Car Trolley is also a direct connection, so two attractions.

I don't understand the last part of your post.

 

[Funmeister]

I'm basing the "double the shops and restaurants" statement on information found on the main page here. I think everyone knows that the full vendor list hasn't been released.

Do you mind linking the info from the main page? I cannot seem to find it. Thanks.

 

[Andrew C]

Okay.

So, just to reiterate:

You're optimistic because there's a lot that WDI/TDO could do.
And you're optimistic because there's a large fanbase supporting the theme of an expansion.

I don't see any reason for optimism.

I see two statements completely unrelated to the area/attraction quality itself.

Until there are details (or even announcements for the sake of SW), why exactly should one be optimistic? Look at TDO's work in the past decade.

I don't remember asking you to be optimistic. Just saying why I am.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

Speaking of budget cuts. Anyone knows ANYTHING about the Parade for DISNEY ANIMAL KINGDOM?
It is really gone forever?

The Parade is gone forever.

 

[GoofGoof]

Do you mind linking the info from the main page? I cannot seem to find it. Thanks.

http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions/disney-springs.htm

If you scroll down to frequently asked questions:

How big will Disney Springs be?
The expansion will approximately double the number of shops and restaurants at Downtown Disney. World of Disney will be expanded.

 

[crispy]

Except the queue belongs to another ride. It's far too realistic for what follows. It's like if HM had an actual creepy graveyard, sans jokey epitaphs. Or IASW had actual photographs of world landmarks. Same goes for Gaston's--I want cartoony heads on the wall, not actual deer heads.

That's a brilliant observation and really hits home for me why this ride just doesn't work well. The queue is gorgeous and creates an excellent build-up and then the ride itself is filled with plastic figures in a semi-dark warehouse. The pay-off just isn't there. The juxtaposition between the queue and the ride are really dramatic.

 

[Cesar R M]

I'm basing the "double the shops and restaurants" statement on information found on the main page here. I think everyone knows that the full vendor list hasn't been released.

I honestly hope they do not overdo it and make a mistake by making too many spaces "for rent".
Can you imagine how ugly would it look if half the rooms were empty?
It would look REALLY BAD.

Unsure how fast slots are rented or sold at DTD, but In cancun this happened.. a big part of them couldn't find tenants.. and the "deserted mall" problem did bring those who did, down.
Worse when the Hurricane Wilma happened.. it destroyed the rest...

The classic day at the pool followed by dinner at DTD. You want to go somewhere to eat and walk around a little but not waste a park day.

I honestly used my trip to DTD as a way to cool down. Each day of park visits means lots of walking non stop, and most of them in the sun.
DTD was perfect to "calm down" and enjoy the boat trip ( I was at POR in my trip). And maybe enjoy just outright spending and shopping. (perfect for last second grabs at Disney's store)

Also, La Nouba is a good show.

The Parade is gone forever.

What a shame, I really loved that parade :/
I was lucky to see it one last time before It was removed. (hell, I did see it twice and recorded it too)

So, no more parades for DAK?
Or we Expect to wait until 2017 to "Maybe" get one with Pandora things?

 

[doctornick]

The Parade is gone forever.

MJJ will be gone forever it seems. But I still wonder if a replacement parade is in the works. I don't see how they expect there to be enough "stuff" to keep people in the park for longer hours without one. I'm hoping that a new on debuts when the night time show and extended hours come about.

Furthermore, I thought that there were plans to modify some of the pathways and connections to improve traffic flow when the parade is going on. Maybe that was just a false rumor.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, the Red Car Trolley is also a direct connection, so two attractions.

I don't understand the last part of your post.

It wasn't serious, it just meant that if you took the Disney out of Disney's California Adventure, it could be anything that one is likely to find in California. At least version 1.0 was like that. Nothing of substance on my part. I've only seen version 1, and I was incredibly unimpressed.

 

[Funmeister]

http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions/disney-springs.htm

If you scroll down to frequently asked questions:

How big will Disney Springs be?
The expansion will approximately double the number of shops and restaurants at Downtown Disney. World of Disney will be expanded.

With all due respect...that is a generic press release. Of course they are going to say that. Until they announce an actual list of SIGNED tenants I would not count on doubling the number of shops and restaurants. I will agree that they probably have plans to ofer double the amount of available spaces but highly doubt they will be filled on opening day. Or a year from opening day. I am willing to bet that there still will be open spaces after two years or more.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It wasn't serious, it just meant that if you took the Disney out of Disney's California Adventure, it could be anything that one is likely to find in California. At least version 1.0 was like that. Nothing of substance on my part. I've only seen version 1, and I was incredibly unimpressed.

I agree that the earlier DCA was more direct and was very unimpressive, but I don't understand your point when you say "it could be anything that one is likely to find in California." What can? DCA? I'm confused.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree that the earlier DCA was more direct and was very unimpressive, but I don't understand your point when you say "it could be anything that one is likely to find in California." What can? DCA? I'm confused.

Don't over think it, it means nothing and only an image in my head that I cannot put on paper. Even if I could it probably wouldn't make sense to anyone but me. I get your point about the real thought behind DCA, at least now, and I agree that I was looking at it from a different angle. Nothing to really understand. Sorry!

 

[spacemt354]

With all due respect...that is a generic press release. Of course they are going to say that. Until they announce an actual list of SIGNED tenants I would not count on doubling the number of shops and restaurants. I will agree that they probably have plans to ofer double the amount of available spaces but highly doubt they will be filled on opening day. Or a year from opening day. I am willing to bet that there still will be open spaces after two years or more.

Thanks for the link.

As an aside, a similar annoucement was made, and still is today, regarding the FLE.

Disney likes to claim that the FLE "doubles" the size of Fantasyland, when we all know that it only re-purposed land once owned by 20,000 Leagues and included Storybook Circus into the new Fantasyland. The only area that wasn't used before was a portion of the BatB area, which is hardly doubling the size as was advertised.

Could be that the number of shops and restaurants are doubling, yet they are being halved in size and substance, and taking up the same real-estate as before. I'm not sure. I take all announcements with a grain of salt until the time gets closer to opening day.

 

[WDW1974]

The point of the mac&cheese stand is not that there is a meaningful corresponce between that and TWDC of 1984, but to show the meaninglessness of using market cap numbers ouside of context and interpretation.

But no hating on mac&cheese! America's finest are grown up on it by America's greatest chefs!


Fun with numbers time now! However, if one should use market cap for a comparison between Eisner and Iger, then Iger beats your boy Mickey Eisner like Spiderman beats street punks when he gets turned down by J. Jonah Jameson again.

For one example - parents and I have been too lazy yet - it is useful to bring in a general stock index performance to see who performed better. Because riding the current is not a personal achievement. Eisner's thirtyfold (well not really, but we'll play along) increase was realised during a period when the Dow Jones Industrial Average grew twelve fold. So we need to divide his 30 by 12, leaves us 2.5. (2.5 is what Eisner achieves on top of the general index, that is, over a dart throwing chimpanzee) He took twenty years, so we need to divide his 2.5 by two to compare with Igers ten years. This leaves us 1.25. A very disappointing performance compared to Iger nearly tripling market cap during his ten years of the biggest stock slump in Wall Street history. Iger's Dow index increased 0.3 in all.

Compared to the all-conquering Robert 'Augustus' Iger small fry Mickey Eisner had better returned to playing with his Michael Mouse ears indeed.

We all loves pix and graphs! Here's the Dow. Eisner starts at around Dow 1000, leaves at around Dow 12000. Iger starts at that 12k, from which it has slowly crept up to 16.

That it was a small corporation that Eisner grew 1.25 times over the general index per decade makes his performance worse, not better. Smaller corporations are easier to grow than big ones. Market leaders seldom triple in worth - after all, they are already a behemoth. One is not going to grow a car company from 30% market share to one with 90%. But it is easy to grow a car company from 1% to 3% market share. In fact, it is ordinary for small companies to do so, instead of a singular special feat. Especially heavily undervalued and underutilised ones, such as the Disney of 1984.

I asked you the following remarkably simple questions:

If the market cap of TWDC or any company is a bogus metric, do tell me if I were to buy TWDC today, what price would I have to pay for it? What would that number be based on? And, as an investor in a company, would you want the executive who took each of your dollars and made you 30 more, or would you want the one who took your dollar and handed you back two and change?

Yes, it is true that if you would have stayed with the leadership of ME right to the end, you would have been giving up some substantial added profit potential along the way, 20-21 years as opposed to nine.

But, hey, if I invested $10,000 in 1984, I would be mighty happy with collecting $300,000 in 2005. I invested a large sum in 1989 and cashed out in 2007 and was thrilled with my profits. And you ... do tell ...

Of course, many of the buyers of WDC shares today are very different than those who bought under ME. Many of these folks are day traders (code for compulsive gamblers, btw), they are not looking for any long term value, just a quick hit.

In all of your 'fun with numbers,' I did not find an answer to these fair and rather decisive questions. Which leads me to ask this telling question, why?

Really, @Empress Lily, sometimes I think it is necessary to remind you (and a few others here) that the folks who tend to gravitate toward a Spirited thread have achieved far more success than completing Logic 101 and Economics 101 in college or 'at' university. But, yeah, most everyone here knows the game being played in the post quoted and why you failed to answer my questions.

BTW, you got somethin' against Michael Eisner? Somethin' personal? 'Cause your post sure reads that way ... 'Iger beats your boy Mickey Eisner like Spiderman beats street punks when he gets turned down by J. Jonah Jameson again' ... and, 'Compared to the all-conquering Robert 'Augustus' Iger small fry Mickey Eisner had better returned to playing with his Michael Mouse ears indeed."

Also, is it just me or is the Dow Jones at an all-time high? Hasn't it been pretty much notching one 'all-time' high after another for a while now?

All this fun chat aside, perhaps we should be talking about the anointed future Disney leader -- Jay Rasulo. I'm sure folks here will say he's perfect for Disney, just look at the numbers he's produced, right?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Don't over think it, it means nothing and only an image in my head that I cannot put on paper. Even if I could it probably wouldn't make sense to anyone but me. I get your point about the real thought behind DCA, at least now, and I agree that I was looking at it from a different angle. Nothing to really understand. Sorry!

Okay, then lol.